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The Bible (a discussion)

 
 
anonymously99
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 Apr, 2014 04:37 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
I think that understanding Jesus is very difficult because we know so little about Him before He embarked on His mission to inaugurate the Kingdom of God here on earth and the conditions He experienced in those 30 years.


I don't believe it is how much we know, but how well we understand what little we do know.

Quote:
The Romans thought 35 to be the prime of life for a man and restricted the Consulship to those who had reached that age. I read that the US Constitution followed that age qualification for some top posts. Others think 33 but the Romans usually erred on the side of caution.


I believe the ability to understand comes with time not age along with having the proper guidance. 
Quote:


The sense of having understood something is pleasant. Although how one was begotten is a bit of a shock to some.

Begotten as in; be·got·ten [bih-got-n]—verb
a past participle of beget.
beget
verb
create, bear
Synonyms: afford, breed, bring, bring about, cause, effect, engender, father, generate, get, give rise to, multiply, occasion, procreate, produce, progenerate, propagate, reproduce, result in, sire 
created, brought about, effected?
un·der·stand [uhn-der-stand]—verb (used with object), un·der·stood, un·der·stand·ing.
to perceive the meaning of; grasp the idea of; comprehend: to understand Spanish; I didn't understand your question.
to be thoroughly familiar with; apprehend clearly the character, nature, or subtleties of: to understand a trade.
to assign a meaning to; interpret: He understood her suggestion as a complaint.to grasp the significance, implications, or importance of: He does not understand responsibility.
to regard as firmly communicated; take as agreed or settled: I understand that you will repay this loan in 30 days.to learn or hear: I understand that you are going out of town.
to accept as true; believe: I understand that you are trying to be truthful, but you are wrong.
to construe in a particular way: You are to understand the phrase literally.to supply mentally (something that is not expressed).

I'm not sure if you can grasp an understanding as to how the two definitions go together/fall into one another/collide/mix well, I don't think I can come up with the perfect or right word for it. The birth, creation of Jesus Christ was a miracle he was a gift to us the people on earth from God.

As in?: Hence, one((Mr. A)) is tempted to think one((Mr.A)) understands something too easily because we seek pleasant feelings.. and pleasant feelings are a conditioning agent which leads us to be impatient with questions which might show that our understanding is incorrect. But questions when in doubt is very helpful for Mr. A to help him better understand because he should not be ashamed of the fact that he is unsure, uncertain, doubtful, else similar... he being ashamed of his uncertainty will lead, may have led to his anger, severe anger, unsatisfaction and so forth. Our impatience being a function of the amount of such conditioning we have induced in ourselves by having understood something. The reasoning as to why we must want to understand verses the want to assume, have false ideas, thoughts, etc. In fact the pleasant feeling can be induced, persuaded, brought about, influenced, increased by pretending to have understood something. Right.

Forgive me but you must keep in mind that the best of education knowledge I have is I guess you could say since high school which was about six years ago. About two years ago say about five to six months into attending an academy, along with soon after attending maybe half a day of the first day of college I quit due to the amount of stress I was enduring at the given times that was building up in my head adding to the mental situation, grief, mental suffering I had been suffering already.

Quote:
One thing untold numbers of conversations in pubs taught me was that I didn't understand anything. And that nobody else did either.


 The want to understand is neglected. 
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Apr, 2014 05:58 am
Quote:
Smileyrius said regarding life after death:@RF- How about Ecclesiastes 9 verse 5
While we are at it, toss in the Psalmists words in Psalms 146 verse 4.

"..the living know that they will die. But the dead know nothing at all" (Ecc 9:5)
Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save. When their spirit departs, they return to the ground" (Psalm 146: 3/4)


Ecc was just airing his personal opinion so don't read too much into him.
The Psalm is spot on, confirming that when the body dies the soul flies..Smile

Anyway both verses were written by humans long before Jesus arrived to set people straight once and for all regarding an afterlife. He said-
"Whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

Do you believe him?..Smile
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Mon 14 Apr, 2014 10:35 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
"..the living know that they will die. But the dead know nothing at all" (Ecc 9:5)
Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save. When their spirit departs, they return to the ground" (Psalm 146: 3/4)


Ecc was just airing his personal opinion so don't read too much into him.
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
The Psalm is spot on, confirming that when the body dies the soul flies..
Ahem. You left out the last sentence of vs 4
Quote:
On that very day his thoughts perish.
Also,You failed to distinguish between soul (nephesh) and spirit (ruah).
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
Anyway both verses were written by humans long before Jesus arrived to set people straight once and for all regarding an afterlife. He said-
"Whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

Do you believe him?..
Was that saying not also reported by a human? I wish you were here in person so we could see you twisting in the wind.
0 Replies
 
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Apr, 2014 11:36 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
I'll leave you to discuss that one with Neo and get back to my real point, you believe that some bible writers made errors.

Forgive me if I am wrong, I have been before
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Apr, 2014 12:41 pm
Guys, guys, I've told you before to break your bad habit of dancing around and playing with words..Smile
Which bit of this do you refuse to grasp?-
Jesus said - "Whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" (John 11:26)
You either believe him or you don't, so which is it?

As Paul said - "I'm worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Cor 11:3)
Dance on but include me out..Smile

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub3/morris.jpg
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Apr, 2014 01:21 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Guys, guys, I've told you before to break your bad habit of dancing around and playing with words..Smile
Which bit of this do you refuse to grasp?-
Jesus said - "Whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" (John 11:26)
You either believe him or you don't, so which is it?

As Paul said - "I'm worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Cor 11:3)
Dance on but include me out..Smile

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub3/morris.jpg



Why should anyone blindly guess that the words are true...just because you are blindly guessing that they are, Romeo?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Apr, 2014 01:56 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
Guys, guys, I've told you before to break your bad habit of dancing around and playing with words..Smile
Which bit of this do you refuse to grasp?-
Jesus said - "Whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" (John 11:26)
I believe many will qualify for everlasting life. Some in heaven. Many more on earth, since that is God's purpose.

What was your point?
anonymously99
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Apr, 2014 03:08 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
I believe many will qualify for everlasting life. Some in heaven. Many more on earth, since that is God's purpose.
What was your point?


Refreshing. Maybe?
0 Replies
 
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Apr, 2014 04:01 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
It is not me my friend that is shifting my feet, this is a conversation between believers, it is not intended as a trap. I have great reverence for all scripture.

If you believe that the bible writers could be incorrect in any single assertion that they pen, you then open the way to plausible deniability over any scripture.

If you interpret Jesus words to clash with any part of the bible, Id suggest you go back over your interpretation.

The bible is an ink blot, the way you interpret it will show what is truly in your heart. It is easy to see what you want to see in the bible, just beware as you well know the heart is treacherous.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Apr, 2014 04:15 pm
Quote:
Smileyrius said:@RF- you believe that some bible writers made errors. Forgive me if I am wrong, I have been before

There you go again, putting words in my mouth that i never uttered! Careful..the naughty step...
But at least you were man enough to admit you may be wrong, join the club..Wink

"I'm no genius..One of my main reasons for posting here is to sharpen my understanding" (Neologist 21 Sep 013)
"When I'm wrong, I fess up to it" (Neologist 21 Sep 013)

"I often am wrong...and I have no problem with acknowledging when I am" Frank Apisa, 17 Nov 2013)
"When I am wrong, I acknowledge that I am wrong" (Frank Apisa, 20 Dec 2013)
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Apr, 2014 04:34 pm
Quote:
Anonymously said: I don't believe it is how much we know, but how well we understand what little we do know.

Good for you mate, just remember Jesus is easy to understand and don't let anybody try to tell you otherwise, they're just "bible snobs" who weave together tangled furballs of obscure verses and puke 'em up at people..Smile

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/cat-pukeZ_zpsb8f6d99b.jpg~original
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Apr, 2014 05:49 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
There you go again, putting words in my mouth that i never uttered! Careful..the naughty step...
No! Your words Romeo. On this very page you asserted Solomon was merely giving his opinion and could be ignored
Quote:
(Ecc 9:5) Ecc was just airing his personal opinion so don't read too much into him.
Then you proceeded to ignore the last sentence of Psalm 146 4:
Quote:
Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save. When their spirit departs, they return to the ground" (Psalm 146: 3/4)
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
The Psalm is spot on, confirming that when the body dies the soul flies..
Not only did you spuriously ignore the differentiation between soul and spirit, you then redacted the part where it says "In that very day their thoughts do perish"

It must be difficult maintaining you are never wrong.
0 Replies
 
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Apr, 2014 05:16 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo, what I say is only complicated to you because I am raising scriptures that create friction with your interpretation. I agree with you on much of what Jesus says, his words and actions should be a footprint to ALL those that profess to be christian. That said, you have a tendency when uncomfortable to switch tact and go back to cut/paste throwaway statements rather than walking me through your understanding.

If you can show me logic and reasoning, I will listen. Thus far however you give off the perception that you lack a holistic understanding of the bible.

All I am asking is for a sensible conversation between Christians
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Apr, 2014 06:48 am
@Smileyrius,
Quote:
Thus far however you give off the perception that you lack a holistic understanding of the bible.


That is a gross understatement Smiley old boy. One might easily understand why somebody like Romeo embraces the teachings of Jesus.

A holistic approach to The Bible is an artistic enterprise. That's why there are so many movies based upon it and very few on Mao's Little Red Book.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Apr, 2014 08:23 am
Quote:
Neologist said:@RF- On this very page you asserted Solomon was merely giving his opinion and could be ignored
Then you proceeded to ignore the last sentence of Psalm 146 4:
Do not put your trust in princes, in human beings, who cannot save. When their spirit departs, they return to the ground" (Psalm 146: 3/4)
you spuriously ignore the differentiation between soul and spirit..

Jesus said :-"You have one teacher, me" (Matt 23:10)
Gettit? That means the words of Solomon and anybody else in the Bible should take second place to HIS words.
Only JESUS saves, NOBODY else!
If you disagree with him you'd better argue it out with him yourself.

As for your quote- "When their spirit departs, they return to the ground", what about it? Whatever you want to call it, (soul or spirit), it flies when the body dies-
Jesus said- “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last" (Luke 23:46)
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Apr, 2014 08:38 am
Quote:
Frank Apisa said re Jesus: Why should anyone blindly guess that the words are true...just because you are blindly guessing that they are, Romeo?

You say in your profile-
"I still manage to play to a [golf] handicap in the high teens....
...I write lots of letters to the editor and op ed pieces. I've had a letter published in The New York Times...
...I've had hundreds of letters published in local newspapers--and have had tens of dozens of op ed essays and guest columns published also...."


No offence mate, but should we just 'blindly guess' that what you say is true?..Wink
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Apr, 2014 08:44 am
Quote:
Smileyrius said: @RF-If you can show me logic and reasoning, I will listen. Thus far however you give off the perception that you lack a holistic understanding of the bible.
All I am asking is for a sensible conversation between Christians

What Christians? Are there any here besides me and Anonymously?
And what does 'holistic' mean?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Apr, 2014 08:55 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
Frank Apisa said re Jesus: Why should anyone blindly guess that the words are true...just because you are blindly guessing that they are, Romeo?

You say in your profile-
"I still manage to play to a [golf] handicap in the high teens....
...I write lots of letters to the editor and op ed pieces. I've had a letter published in The New York Times...
...I've had hundreds of letters published in local newspapers--and have had tens of dozens of op ed essays and guest columns published also...."


No offence mate, but should we just 'blindly guess' that what you say is true?..Wink






Absolutely, Romeo. You have no idea if I am telling the truth or not. And we have no idea if you are.

If you want to think the words are true...and that everyone else should also...fine. Go for it.

But it is madness to suppose that is logical.
0 Replies
 
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Apr, 2014 11:03 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
so that's a no to sensible conversation?

Interesting that you Imply ad hominem, the escalation shows increased unease. I'm not here to upset you Romeo, just to talk.
The term holistic in this application is to consider the bible as a whole, not discarding a single verse.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Apr, 2014 11:16 am
@spendius,
Quote:
A holistic approach to the Bible is an artistic enterprise.

The Bible is a collection of disparate books. It is a library, not a book, and many of its books were redacted by several people. There is no internal consistency in the Bible. Even Genesis has 2 stories of creation that contradict one another. Which is a richness, a strength if you consider the thing as literature, but a flaw if you see it as a historical narrative.
 

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