The Bible (a discussion)

@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

For the record, neologist, I don't take you seriously either. . .

I could take you seriously when you begin using spell check from time to time

MontereyJack wrote:

Siumilarly with your other points. Myths are myths. They're teaching stories. Tieing them to actual physical events or realities is hopelessly unproductive. Dlo you think the sun is actually carried around the sky by some guy in a chariot? Picking and choosing bits of myths and saying this one has a little bit of truth in it is really cherry-picking the evidence. Please point out some nephel that exists today, or that you can demonstrate existed in the last four thousand years, and that agument may hold some water. . .

You apparently have some knowledge to impart. I think. But you are so eager to cast doubt on my posts that you don't read them. Just one example, nephelim. The Bible makes references to them before the flood. Greek and Roman myth refer to their hybrid heroes in antiquity. Where did you get the idea I could show you one?

BTW, before I became a JW, my nickname was Zeus. But I could never live up to it.

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Proverbs, Chapter Eight:

1 Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?

2 She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.

3 She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.

4 Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice is to the sons of man.

5 O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.

6 Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things.

7 For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.

8 All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.

9 They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.

10 Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.

11 For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.

12 I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.

13 The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

14 Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.

15 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.

16 By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.

17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

18 Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.

19 My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.

20 I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:

21 That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.

22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.

33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.

34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.

35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the Lord.

36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

No mention of your boy Jeebus there.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Proverbs, Chapter Eight:

. . . 22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men. . .

No mention of your boy Jeebus there.

This is God's firstborn identifying himself as firstborn.

1 Reply

@neologist,

No, that is how you choose to interpret it to suit the exegesis you're trying to peddle. It's just the same as when you attempt to claim that Daniel's bullshit prophecy and Jeebus' " . . . the kingdom of God is within you" mean the same thing. You are dedicated to a certain exegesis, and you will attempt to warp any text you find to support it.

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It is worth mentioning here, too, that your image of Jeebus is greatly at odds with the image of Jeebus held by all other christians.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

It is worth mentioning here, too, that your image of Jeebus is greatly at odds with the image of Jeebus held by all other christians.

Glad you noticed

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

rosborne979 wrote:
neologist wrote:
I would have expected the Bible to claim divine inspiration. The task is to prove for oneself. Part of it involves sifting through the BS nominal christianity has spewed about the scriptures. But each time you discover where the sheep have been fleeced, it strengthens your resolve to go further.
That didn't really answer the question. Why do you "expect" it? Why do you feel it's your (or anyone's) task to prove it for yourself? I'm trying to understand where your belief that the bible is inspired text comes from. Do you even know?
Why do I expect it? People have been willing to die for it.

So that's it? People are willing to die for it so you think it's divinely inspired? Don't you have anything better than that? Because that's definitely not a good enough reason. People are willing to die for lots of reasons, but very few of them claim divine inspiration.

You're trying to be too glib and not answering the question.

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

There is only one reason for the Bible: to explain how God intends to fulfill his purpose for mankind.

What makes you think that?

Is it just a feeling? Did you read it in the Bible? Did your father tell you? Did your preacher tell you?

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@rosborne979,

If you're going to shorten my posts, at least give me the courtesy of including ellipses. Then perhaps the casual reader will understand that I would not be willing to put faith in a document I consider spurious.

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@MontereyJack,

Quote:

As ros says, if you're going to argue magic, you're not dealing with the reality.

Have you not noticed Jack that you, ros and Setanta are eager to argue with those who argue magic rather than those who deal with reality. It is very striking how you home in on the magic. Perhaps it is because it is so easy to inform those who do that they argue magic rather than deal with reality which is a word you no doubt define to your own satisfaction. I don't think you would know what to say if those who argue magic disappeared.

If you can find enough people who deal in magic rather than reality, another easy task, you can continue informing them of your superior arguments for as long as you live and be saying the same things at 8o as you were at 20.

The problem all three of you have is a well known literary error. Simply stated it is that the urge, sometimes an obsession, to impose order on the material being apprehended often, not unusually always, benumbs the faculty of apprehending human relations, and the expression of them, because of the necessity to simplify these relationships in the interests of the programme being promoted.

Eugenics is the best known example. It has a programme of producing 312 million perfect human specimens and does not know what to do with them when success is achieved because they all want to be eugenicists as the perfect specimen has already been assumed to be like those doing the promoting.

Fiction writers need to embrace this error to prevent their creation ballooning out of control and requiring a fork truck at the booksellers to transfer their publication to a buyer's low-loader. They need to push the story along and to do so must ignore anything but the coarser obvious stereotypes which overlay, choke even, the subtler aspects of human relationships.

Your arguments are vulgar, in other words, and very much so considering the complex subtleties involved in an approach to an object, a cultural icon no less, such as the Bible.

Ant there is nothing more vulgar than to call it the bobble and its hero Jeebus. Or Jeobus. That has burning the Holy Book in mind in the deeper layers.

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@rosborne979,

rosborne979 wrote:

neologist wrote:
There is only one reason for the Bible: to explain how God intends to fulfill his purpose for mankind.

What makes you think that?

Is it just a feeling? Did you read it in the Bible? Did your father tell you? Did your preacher tell you?

No need to talk down to me. You will have to look up.

But, if you really need it, there is a good discussion here:
http://able2know.org/topic/104369-1

1 Reply

@spendius,

And then you really have lost touch with reality.

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@spendius,

Quote:

Have you not noticed Jack that you, ros and Setanta are eager to argue with those who argue magic rather than those who deal with reality.

Isn't Jesus magic?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dNT414b5GM&list=PLA538379058C8BC04
(the part I meant to link to starts at 8:50)

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

If you're going to shorten my posts, at least give me the courtesy of including ellipses. Then perhaps the casual reader will understand that I would not be willing to put faith in a document I consider spurious.

Agreed. Sorry about that. I was only trying to make it clear which portion of your comment I was responding to. A lot of the extra stuff you write just clouds things and I'm trying to be precise because your way of thinking is very chaotic to me.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Isn't Jesus magic?

Is that your definition of magic?
Perhaps his control over nature would seem so.
But, wouldn't you expect one claiming to be God's firstborn son to have that power?

BTW, I don't watch vidiocy

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Neo, do you believe it is literally true that Noah was 600 years old when he set about building that abortion of a boat? (I will pass over that the text says in one place that he was 600 years old, an in another, in his 600th year, which would have made him 599.)

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

No need to talk down to me. You will have to look up.

But, if you really need it, there is a good discussion here:
http://able2know.org/topic/104369-1

I'm not talking down to you, I'm just trying to be explicit because you are not answering the question.

And that link you provided isn't an answer either. I can't wade through 7 pages of commentary trying to extract what you consider to be an accurate answer.

If you don't want to answer the question please just say so, and if you do, just go ahead and do it.

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@rosborne979,

I think you are smarter than that. As are Set, Blue, and others.
You all seem strangely reluctant to admit any internal consistency in the Bible.
I'm waiting for someone to say Yeah, it seems to say that; but I still don't believe it..
May never happen, I will admit.

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@neologist,

No one here has to "admit" to any such thing. If you make that claim, it is up to you to show it.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Neo, do you believe it is literally true that Noah was 600 years old when he set about building that abortion of a boat? (I will pass over that the text says in one place that he was 600 years old, an in another, in his 600th year, which would have made him 599.)

Actually, he was in his 600th year or 600 years old when he entered the ark. He not doubt had spent quite a few years building it. 120?Maybe.

Seems like a lot of years, eh?

1 Reply

The Bible (a discussion)

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