The Bible (a discussion)

@edgarblythe,

You made an unsupported claim. I expected more. Especially since I know you are capable.

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@neologist,

In fact, what you are saying is that you want to believe that this book is divinely inspired, from which point you begin interpreting it to suit the views which you prefer. There's a sneering quality to your "lazy dodge" comment. I didn't "abandon" the bible, i simply never accepted it as "the word of god," and, of course, even less so when i did abandon the idea that there was any such thing as a god. I'm not going to rehash discussions of the contradictions, the superstition or the hilarious allegations of historical fact for which there are not only no other sources, but which are flatly contradicted by other sources. Years of doing this has lead to nothing but more exegetical games. I no longer care to play those games--in large measure because it's always an exercise in you attempting to justify scripture by quoting more scripture.

1 Reply

The Koran claims that it is divinely inspired and the word of god:

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does the Qur'an claim Divine status for itself?

Yes. The Holy Qur'an repeatedly makes clear that it is Divine.

"(This is) the revelation of the Book in which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the Worlds." (32:2).

"Verily this is a Revelation from the Lord of the Worlds" (26:192).

"(It is a Revelation) sent down by (Him), the Exalted in Might, Most Merciful" (36:5).

A billion people accept that as truth. Which is pretty much on the same level as the bible claiming to be divinely inspired. Give a valid reason for believing one self-proclaimed truth over the other. I claim divine inspiration myself, and I say they're both hogwash. It must be true, because I said it's true. Do you find that a convincing argument. For that matter, the Book of Mormon says it's direct from divine inspiration, that Jesus spent his lost years among Native
Americans, that the 10 lost tribes of Israel migrated to the Americas and became Native Americans, and that the Garden of Eden was located near St. Joseph, Missouri. do you find that divine inspiration convincing? Why or why not?

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@Setanta,

Well, the topic of this thread is "The Bible (a discussion)", is it not?

BTW/FYI, whatever, I spent not a few years as a comfortable agnostic, politely shooing away JWs who happened at my door until I invited one in to set him straight, thinking myself more of an intellectual match. Well, he was smart enough, I'll give that, but it was not his wisdom that prevailed.

The same in your case. I don't call into question your historical references, only perhaps your dismissal of mine and, more often, your interpretation of them. You have been a worthwhile sharpening stone, far more than those who simply label my beliefs as irrational without ever examining the veracity of their own position.

It's my well considered belief that our exchanges have more clearly expressed the dichotomy between believer/non believer than any other two posters so far. I would regret their end.

1 Reply

@neologist,

If you make "historical references" which are based on alleged scripture, then i certainly will dismiss them out of hand without a non-scriptural corroboration. Scripture is all about holding a certain belief, and sustaining it, and is therefore always an historiographically suspect source.

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@rosborne979,

rosborne979 wrote:

neologist wrote:
According to o Paul at 2 Timothy 3:16 ". . . All Scripture is inspired of God . . ."
And you find that convincing?

The entire Bible depends on it being a unified whole. For example, the Law was written to lead the Jews to the Messiah. If the Bible is not internally consistent, then, among other things, we are left to determine moral issues according to our own perception of what is good and what is bad, an issue first raised in Genesis 2:17.

So, why does there seem to be so much confusion about what the Bible actually says? For one thing, issues raised in the Garden of Eden have yet to be resolved. For the thousands of years since, God's adversary has been given opportunity to demonstrate his point. The entire world has been under his authority. In proof of this, consider the offer he made to Jesus at Matthew 4:9, offering him the kingdoms of the world. He could not offer what he did not control. The only thing he has not been able to control is Jesus' message at John 18:37. :For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth." Should this message be corrupted, Paul's statement could not be true. So, all the resistor of Genesis needs to accomplish is to obfuscate the message.

I wish I could demonstrate with empirical certainty that I have stumbled upon the correct interpretation(s). I have no authority to make any claims other than what I find in the Bible. And, I'm just an ordinary schluck. I'm from New Jersey, for goodness sake . . .

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@MontereyJack,

The OP refers to the Bible. I have reasons for rejecting the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, the book of Mormon, etc. But I won't go into them here.
The Bible has it's own claim of internal consistency, made in several places. That is keeping me busy enough.

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

rosborne979 wrote:
neologist wrote:
According to o Paul at 2 Timothy 3:16 ". . . All Scripture is inspired of God . . ."
And you find that convincing?
The entire Bible depends on it being a unified whole. For example, the Law was written to lead the Jews to the Messiah. If the Bible is not internally consistent, then, among other things, we are left to determine moral issues according to our own perception of what is good and what is bad, an issue first raised in Genesis 2:17.

So, why does there seem to be so much confusion about what the Bible actually says? For one thing, issues raised in the Garden of Eden have yet to be resolved. For the thousands of years since, God's adversary has been given opportunity to demonstrate his point. The entire world has been under his authority. In proof of this, consider the offer he made to Jesus at Matthew 4:9, offering him the kingdoms of the world. He could not offer what he did not control. The only thing he has not been able to control is Jesus' message at John 18:37. :For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth." Should this message be corrupted, Paul's statement could not be true. So, all the resistor of Genesis needs to accomplish is to obfuscate the message.

I wish I could demonstrate with empirical certainty that I have stumbled upon the correct interpretation(s). I have no authority to make any claims other than what I find in the Bible. And, I'm just an ordinary schluck. I'm from New Jersey, for goodness sake . . .

Holy moley...you are from the Land of Great Minds. I knew I liked ya in spite of our differences.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Holy moley...you are from the Land of Great Minds. I knew I liked ya in spite of our differences. . . .

I remember . . . .
Back in the day. . .
Driving through Palisades Park, through the Meadowlands, before the stadium, over to Harvard on the Hackensack.
That's where I got smartified.
Those were the days, Frank.
Those were the days.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Holy moley...you are from the Land of Great Minds. I knew I liked ya in spite of our differences.

But he is defending a whole order you are intent upon overthrowing. How can you like the guy? If it's because he's from NJ then you have to like all of them from there. For better or for worse.

Shabby humbug. Ingratiating. Patronising.

Is everybody in N. Carolina supposed to like Edward Snowden?

We've got you as wound up as a spring in a cuckoo clock that has had the wing nut turned one last turn with a hammer after the fingers could do no more.

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@spendius,

Love ya, spendi. But you just don't understand the Joisey mystique Laughing

1 Reply

I read enough to see where you are coming from, neologist. I have to say we have no ground for understanding. I can enjoy your presence here, but I can't engage in Bible discussions.

1 Reply

@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

The Koran claims that it is divinely inspired and the word of god:

The Torah, the Bible and the Koran are all based off the same stories from differing views.

1 Reply

@BillW,

BillW wrote:

MontereyJack wrote:

The Koran claims that it is divinely inspired and the word of god:

The Torah, the Bible and the Koran are all based off the same stories from differing views.

Yup. Ultimately they all go back to the mythology of the Babylonians with a smattering of Egyptian seasoning thrown in (particularly as regards the concept of only One God).

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@neologist,

Quote:

Love ya, spendi. But you just don't understand the Joisey mystique

You might be surprised if I took to giving it the scientific once-over. I know how delusions are created.

We have a Lancashire mystique. It's a sort of safe haven for wankers. And dead easy to do.

Notice how there was no answer to the question of why should people who have paid high prices for their land subsidize people who have got it cheap on account of it being unsuitable for building on.

Being in begging bowl mode due to losing a bet with the weather is hardly something to get mystical about.

1 Reply

@Lustig Andrei,

Quote:

Yup. Ultimately they all go back to the mythology of the Babylonians with a smattering of Egyptian seasoning thrown in (particularly as regards the concept of only One God).

What were the alternaives as you understand them Andy?

Loved the "Yup". I like simple explanations.

1 Reply

@spendius,

Alternatives to what? The Torah/New Testament/Koran heritage? You need look only as far as India (which Alexander of Macedon, a European, nearly conquered) for the answer to that. Sidhartha and them started a movement which is still going great guns all over the Far East and the West Coast (at least) of the USA.

1 Reply

@Lustig Andrei,

Quote:

Alternatives to what?

The method of getting here from there which has been used. Do you prefer ferrymen to 8 lane bridges?

1 Reply

@spendius,

I prefer a helicopter.

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

For one thing, issues raised in the Garden of Eden have yet to be resolved. For the thousands of years since, God's adversary has been given opportunity to demonstrate his point.

You do understand that none of that really happened, right?

1 Reply

The Bible (a discussion)

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