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What are your pet peeves re English usage?

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 May, 2005 06:28 am
Clary wrote:
Breakfast is the same in many languages. In Latin disjejunare = to break one's fast. In old French the sloppy surrender monkeys reduced it to dîner, ate it later and later, and déjeuner replaced it for breakfast. That slipped forward in time so that we now have petit déjeuner. So all 3 meals are fast-breakers for the Frogs.


However, 'dinner' actually means breakfast (Middle English from Old French disner, now dîner [the noun was derived from the verb disner, which became English's dine].
Disner came from the Late Latin (300 - 700 AD) verb disiunare, "to break one's fast" or "to eat one's first meal." In earlier Latin the verb was disieiunare, where dis = "away" and ieiunium = "fast".
In Middle English, dinner was used for the first big meal of the day, which was eaten sometime between 9 a.m. and noon, so it had the meaning of "breakfast" or "lunch".
Later on, a cultural change caused the upper classes to start having their main meal in the evening - which they called dinner.

The German "Frühstück" (breakfast) was origianlly a piece of bread eaten early in the morning.

:wink:

In Latin, breakfast is either "ientaculum" = (first) breakfast or ientaculi.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 May, 2005 06:33 am
booman2 wrote:
Clary,
....Is "off their chump", the predeccesor to,"off their food bag"?
.....Setanta,
.....I'll bet you probably do a slow burn when someone says "just ONE second". Evil or Very Mad ...when I'm in a good mood, I'll say something like "go ahead and take more time." If I'm feeling a bit more devilish, I'll proclaim, "ONE THOUSAND ONE".


I usually wait for an approximate second, Boss, then i say: "Alright, time's up." That usually gets a sour look, so--mission accomplished ! ! !
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 May, 2005 06:51 am
Missed your comment in the peeves
Merry Andrew wrote:
Piffka wrote:
Gilbert and Sullivan song that has this phrase "while the coast is clear" ....pirates on the shore?


Hmm. Interesting observation. Now you've got me wondering whether that line is the original source of the colloquial expression, or whether G&S just borrowed an existing expression because the meter fit the song and it was a clever play on words.



I missed your comment in the peeves, MA. I thought I'd check on that expression and it doesn't refer just to pirates.

Quote:
from a Q & A website:

COAST IS CLEAR - "The phrase first appears in print in 1531 where it describes a vessel which had safely cleared the coast, then later Shakespeare used it in 'Henry VI' as a reference to visibility. Neither of these references touch on its true insinuation; it is a reference to smuggling surely? Or some nefarious operation." "Salty Dog Talk: The Nautical Origins of Everyday Expressions" by Bill Beavis and Richard G. McCloskey (Sheridan House, Dobbs Ferry, N.Y., 1995. First published in Great Britain, 1983).


and this different idea:

Quote:
A military term literally having to do with clearing an enemy from the beach prior to an invasion.


Does appear to have to do with beaches.... if these sites can be believed.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 May, 2005 06:58 am
booman2 wrote:
Setanta,
.....I'll bet you probably do a slow burn when someone says "just ONE second". Evil or Very Mad ...when I'm in a good mood, I'll say something like "go ahead and take more time." If I'm feeling a bit more devilish, I'll proclaim, "ONE THOUSAND ONE".


Dear Booman and I do mean dear, honestly I do.

"The world of words is just as wonderous as the world of syntax, or even more so. ... Though most common words have many meanings, few meanings have more than one word. That is homonyms are plentiful, synonyms rare. ... No one knows why languages are so stingy with words and profligate with meanings, but children seem to expect it." {S Pinker}

Why is this lost on adults? If you check any dictionary, you'll find that 'second', like so many words in English, has more than one meaning.
In "wait a second", the meaning is not 1/60th of a minute, the meaning is as in #2 below, "a very short time", aka 'moment'.

==============
OED:

second2
/sekknd/

noun 1 the unit of time in the SI system, equal to one-sixtieth of a minute. 2 informal a very short time. 3 (also arc second or second of arc) a sixtieth of a minute of angular distance.
=============

But you knew that already because you are an native speaker. Actually, 'second' plays a role comprising 4 parts of speech with somewhere around 20 meanings. And you know all these too.

EDITED: I see you have company in the form of Setanta. Maybe you can clue him in, Booman. Smile
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 May, 2005 07:07 am
Clary wrote:
So all 3 meals are fast-breakers for the Frogs.


LOL


If someone says "I'm getting my hair cut" -- the standard reply: "Oh? Which one?"
0 Replies
 
Clary
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 May, 2005 07:11 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Clary wrote:
Breakfast is the same in many languages. In Latin disjejunare = to break one's fast. In old French the sloppy surrender monkeys reduced it to dîner, ate it later and later, and déjeuner replaced it for breakfast. That slipped forward in time so that we now have petit déjeuner. So all 3 meals are fast-breakers for the Frogs.


However, 'dinner' actually means breakfast (Middle English from Old French disner, now dîner [the noun was derived from the verb disner, which became English's dine].
Disner came from the Late Latin (300 - 700 AD) verb disiunare, "to break one's fast" or "to eat one's first meal." In earlier Latin the verb was disieiunare, where dis = "away" and ieiunium = "fast".
In Middle English, dinner was used for the first big meal of the day, which was eaten sometime between 9 a.m. and noon, so it had the meaning of "breakfast" or "lunch".
Later on, a cultural change caused the upper classes to start having their main meal in the evening - which they called dinner.


That's what I said; in less detail, admittedly.

off their chump = crazy, chump being head. Never heard off their food bag, but it sounds as though it means off their food. No need for the bag.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 May, 2005 07:51 am
Clary wrote:
Never heard off their food bag, but it sounds as though it means off their food. No need for the bag.


Clary,

This is a fairly common idiom, though it's somewhat dated. 'food bag' refers to a bag that was common in the old days. It was hung behind a horse's ears and the horse would eat his ration from that bag. A horse that didn't feel well wouldn't eat.

This was extended to a people, who, having food put in front of them, didn't feel like eating.
0 Replies
 
Clary
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 May, 2005 08:29 am
We call those nosebags. But there is no phrase 'off your nosebag'.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 May, 2005 09:22 am
Clary wrote:
We call those nosebags. But there is no phrase 'off your nosebag'.


Didn't catch on in BrE, I guess, Clary.
0 Replies
 
Clary
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 May, 2005 09:29 am
It sounds pretty insulting though, doesn't it?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 May, 2005 09:36 am
Clary wrote:
It sounds pretty insulting though, doesn't it?


Not to me, Clary. It's country talk, downright homey it is.
0 Replies
 
Clary
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 May, 2005 09:41 am
no, with the nosebag instead of the food bag: "Tony Blair must be off his nosebag chumming up to Dubbyou like that".

You in Singapore, JTT?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 May, 2005 09:51 am
Clary wrote:
no, with the nosebag instead of the food bag: "Tony Blair must be off his nosebag chumming up to Dubbyou like that".

You in Singapore, JTT?


Nope, Japan. Where's you at, Clary?
0 Replies
 
Clary
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 May, 2005 10:01 am
Oh, just England. I thought you said you were in SE Asia. Singlish is fun, and Chinglish too. Is there a Jinglish?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 May, 2005 10:17 am
Clary wrote:
Oh, just England. I thought you said you were in SE Asia. Singlish is fun, and Chinglish too. Is there a Jinglish?


Last time I checked I thought that's where Japan was but geography's not my long suit.

You bet. There's Japlish. Here's a site.

http://www.coolslang.com/in/Japan/Japlish.php
0 Replies
 
Clary
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 May, 2005 10:28 am
That's a great site! I remember oranji jusu and miruku because I went there with babies, but these are wonderful.
0 Replies
 
booman2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 May, 2005 07:20 pm
Dear..Dear..JTT, Very Happy
.....That was a most engrossing rebuttal, to my statement. You are my kind of fun debater. (debatist?) However...I believe your concise, and thorough point must be rendered academic.
....The titular question of this thread is "What are YOUR pet peeves Re: english usage?" So I was stating MY pet peeve. which is unquestionable, since my response, is only beholden to MY feelings................BUCKO! Very Happy
.....Now, because I like you, (I really do like you)I'll give you a reason why it rubs me the wrong way; You see there is no consistency to the statement. When a person says that, I have no Idea how long they mean. It may be a few seconds. may be five. ten, God knows how many minutes. Therefore when I ask a person to wait, I try to be a little more specific in my time frame, to do less, would be rude on my part....See where I'm coming from Podnuh?

Setanta......You want a piece of'em?... Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 May, 2005 07:51 pm
Not interested, Boo . . . he's proven himself a haughty and pedantic boor over and over again in this thread--guess he feels compelled to prove it to each poster who enters.

Oh, i've got an idea . . . wait here just a sec, i'll be right back . . .
0 Replies
 
booman2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 May, 2005 07:54 pm
Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 May, 2005 08:20 pm
booman2 wrote:
Dear..Dear..JTT, Very Happy
.....That was a most engrossing rebuttal, to my statement. You are my kind of fun debater. (debatist?) However...I believe your concise, and thorough point must be rendered academic.
....The titular question of this thread is "What are YOUR pet peeves Re: english usage?" So I was stating MY pet peeve. which is unquestionable, since my response, is only beholden to MY feelings................BUCKO! Very Happy

Someone starts a thread entitled "Flat Earth" and you expect, Booman, only postings supporting such nonsense. Confused But, as I've said, many times, please peeve away.

.....Now, because I like you, (I really do like you)I'll give you a reason why it rubs me the wrong way; You see there is no consistency to the statement. When a person says that, I have no Idea how long they mean. It may be a few seconds. may be five. ten, God knows how many minutes. Therefore when I ask a person to wait, I try to be a little more specific in my time frame, to do less, would be rude on my part....See where I'm coming from Podnuh?

Of course I see where you're coming from, Booman. You're coming from the peevist angle. And while you may have a legitimate complaint with an individual who repeatedly makes you wait unneccesarily, you're incorrectly mixing up a social issue with a language issue.

If a person continually states "I'll meet you at {time}" and that person is always late, will you then have a problem with the sentence, "I'll meet you at {time}".

There's nothing wrong with the language, this use of 'second'. This particular usage, as every child knows, means "a short undefined period of time". Language is, in and of itself, neutral. It's used simply as a way to communicate a given idea.

Clearly, it's a collocation of indefiniteness. Should you need a greater degree of definiteness, our language has collocations for that too. I needn't outline them for you.

Why aren't you peeving about the person who says, "Wait a minute" and then gets back to you in, say, 20 seconds?

Unless you're willing to apply a modicum of thinking to these peeves you'd be wise to follow the axiom; "Adults do their language a whole lot better than they describe their language".


Setanta......You want a piece of'em?... Twisted Evil

Setanta's thimble is empty. Smile

0 Replies
 
 

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