63
   

What are your pet peeves re English usage?

 
 
McTag
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 04:06 pm

I'm quite comfortable with "the media are". It used to be the "mass media", meaning radio, TV and newspapers. Nowadays adding the internet.

Of course you can assign a plural verb. In fact, you should.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 04:16 pm
Quite correct; media is a p. noun.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 04:21 pm
@McTag,
What do the media do?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 04:32 pm
@farmerman,
They are our source of information.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 04:45 pm
@farmerman,
mediate.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 05:07 pm
Hey--that glitterbag fancies herself what ? Are smelling salts too cheap and common these days?

"Untouched by developers" eh? Fancy driving around Annapoplis where it is untouched by developers. That's really posh don't you think? I wonder what Big Chief Sitting Bull would have said. He would have scratched his wise old head at the mention of dog parks and emergency rooms I should have thought.

I had any idea that Spendius was so delicate, I wouldn't have been bragging about the peculiar notion of those us the Annapolis area relying on Hospitals, Emergency Rooms or paramedics. Smelling salts are ideal when you faint, but when you black out suddenly and then have an irregular heartbeat normally the best advice is to get an EKG and blood work to rule out a heart attack. The blood work did show a dangerous drop in my potassium level which needed to be addressed, and posh (whatever the hell that is) as it might be around here most of us don't have our own at-home labs, so we tend to go where the doctors are available. Perhaps Chief Sitting Bull would have been puzzled at the notion of "dog parks" but when you live in an area that is busting at the seams with traffic, you like the idea of getting away from the busy streets and let your dogs run freely. Sitting Bull didn't live long enough to see massive modern day traffic jams either, come to think of it!

P.S. Annapolis is fairly busting with development, businesses, malls and tourists....that's why if you drive off to Davidsonville, (still horse country) (and not part of Annapolis) you can escape the concrete paradise that has smitten most of the county.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 05:40 pm
@glitterbag,
Yes gb --but what about the horse country people being smitten by you lot driving around to escape the tedium and putting up Eggs For Sale signs and Well Rotted Compost inducements.

I was only playing around with the "untouched by developers" idea of your's. Nothing personal. I heard they had artificial snow up the hills of Aspen.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 07:01 pm
You are probably right about artificial snow in Aspen, but that's hundreds of miles away from where I live and a much higher elevation. They don't have artificial horse manure in Davidsonville, and it's been years since I have seen a produce stand near the narrow roads. It's fairly green and leafy area, mostly wooded, broken by huge pastures where livestock is usually wandering, and the homes are far out of sight so I doubt the residents ever see someone taking an afternoon drive thru the country side, unless they are on the road themselves either hauling horse trailers or driving off to their country clubs.

Queen Elizabeth has been to Davidsonville to check out the horses. It's been quite some time ago, don't remember if she purchased or not...... and Davidsonville didn't get swept up in amusement, excitement, or any other sort of hysteria over the royal shopping trip. So, neighbors taking a drive are not going to raise any eyebrows in Davidsonville. Annapolis is not a big city like Baltimore or Washington D.C. so it's not exactly the city folk traveling thru the dust bowl for amusement.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 09:05 pm
UK region exact phrase search

Results 1 - 10 of about 81,300 for "the media is".

Results 1 - 10 of about 51,500 for "the media are".

========================

USA region exact phrase search

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,130,000 for "the media is".

Results 1 - 10 of about 482,000 for "the media are".


===================

The dinosaurs are dying quickly.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 09:09 pm
@JTT,
I think that's easily answered why a search would turn out that way; most people think of the media as one form when they relate it to anything they refer as a source or resource. When a person says "media," they mean only one of the many choices that are available.

What do you think?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 09:38 pm
@spendius,
spendius requested:
Quote:
Imagine saying "Media are corrupt." It's ridiculous.

By what reasoning
is saying "Media are corrupt" subject to ridicule ?








spendius wrote:
Quote:
I think Dave has a bit of a thing about breaking rules.
Only little ones mind you. Nothing to justify getting a posse up.

This is perceptual error.

1. As to ignoring rules:
From the earliest years of my life,
the single digit years thereof,
I ignored rules that other kids obayed without question.
I remember receiving lists of instructions of what to do,
and in what sequence, from school teachers.

I followed those rules which I deemed logical and well founded
and silently ignored the others; I dismissed them out of hand.
When asked the reason
that I ignored them, I explained.

No big deal; I am and I was a libertarian and a hedonist.
I never assumed that anyone else had jurisdiction to order me around.

I believed in government by consent of the governed.
I carefully pondered when to consent.





2. As to implimenting rules:
We shoud be mindful of the fact
that we have risen to the top of the food chain
and walked upon the Moon by the application of competent reasoning.

We owe it to ourselves to act to think and speak logically,
and to execute our thawts with flawless logic,
in order to bring about success in our endeavors.
Most of the time, infractions of grammar entail flaws of logic,
e.g. inconsistency as to number concerning the sublect of a sentence,
such as there 's 3 dogs barking instead of there r 3 dogs barking,
or someone will do something for themselves.
Them is a plural word; selves is a plural word.

We r free to ignore rules which r not founded upon logic,
e.g. the non-fonetic parts of English spelling,
or the rule of grammar against splitting of infinitive verbs,
which r founded upon stupidity.

Some rules r helpful to execute; not others.
In the deathless words of my ex-girlfriend, Marilyn:
"take the best and leave the rest."
She is an eclecticist -- not an ecdysiast.

It behooves us to master logic n to execute it proficiently
thereby to improve our prospects of controlling our environment to our satisfaction.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 09:41 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
media is like data, its plural, but so what?


That's the point effemm. If it's plural it hardly means anything.

If u wish to indicate the singular,
then u shoud refer to a medium.





David
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 09:41 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
It appears to me that JTT is in a peevish snit. He may be expressing pet peeves without realizing it.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 09:49 pm
@glitterbag,

He does not realize much,
but he emotes a lot.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 10:14 pm
@glitterbag,
Quote:
He may be expressing pet peeves without realizing it.


If you understood anything about language, GB, you'd know that I wasn't.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 10:31 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Them is a plural word; selves is a plural word.


David doesn't seem to have any problem at all with 'you' serving as both a singular and a plural. Does this mean that David's sense of logic is badly flawed? Do ducks quack?


Quote:
POSTCARD FROM VEGAS, 2: SYNTACTIC DATA COLLECTION ON THE STRIP
For the grammarian (and that is what I am, though I am also fun enough to go to Vegas for a wild weekend), data is all around us.

Oh, all right, prescriptive pedants: data are all around us.

And in Las Vegas, right on the strip, on the way to a show, I gathered a beautiful example which definitively settled a question I had regarded as either open or possibly closed in the other direction: whether a proper name can be a fully natural antecedent of a singular they. Let me explain.

It is a familiar myth from bad usage books that sentences like Everyone does what they are told are grammatically incorrect. The claim, let me stress immediately, is absolute nonsense. The pronoun they (in its various inflectional forms: they, them, their, theirs, themselves) has been used with a singular antecedent for hundreds of years. It occurs in Chaucer, Shakespeare, Milton, Austen, Wilde... it is natural, idiomatic, fully grammatical English for every native speaker who has not had their brain completely warped by bad usage books like Strunk & White's disgusting little atavistic compendium of falsehoods The Elements of Style.

What the bad usage books say about an example like Everyone does what they are told is that they is a plural pronoun but everyone is a singular noun phrase (notice the singular agreement on does), and you can't be both plural and singular, so it's wrong. The claim is a stupid mistake -- it depends on confusing the partially semantics system of choice for person, number, and gender on anaphoric pronouns with the mostly syntactic system of subject agreement in person and number marked on verbs. Nowhere did God say they have to line up in some simple way, and indeed they don't. The usage grouches are just flat wrong about the history and structure of English. I could go on for some time about this, but I won't, because I already did once, on Australian radio, in a talk called "Anyone who had a heart (would know their own language", and you can read the script at http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/ling/stories/s546929.htm, or listen to the program itself by visiting http://www.abc.net.au/rn/arts/ling/lfranca_040502.ram.

http://158.130.17.5/~myl/languagelog/archives/000172.html



Quote:
"SINGULAR THEY": GOD SAID IT, I BELIEVE IT, THAT SETTLES IT
Wayne Leman at Better Bibles Blog has posted a substantial list of "singular they" examples from the long history of English-language bible translation, starting with Tyndale in 1526 and continuing up to versions from the past decade. His examples from the 1611 King James Version:

Matt. 18:35: So likewise shall my heauenly Father doe also vnto you, if yee from your hearts forgiue not euery one his brother their trespasses.
Phl. 2:3: Let nothing bee done through strife, or vaine glory, but in lowlinesse of minde let each esteeme other better then themselues.
Numbers 2:34: And the children of Israel did according to all that the LORD commanded Moses: so they pitched by their standards, and so they set forward, every one after their families, according to the house of their fathers.
Numbers 15:12: According to the number that yee shall prepare, so shall yee doe to euery one, according to their number.
2 Kings 14:12: And Iudah was put to the worse before Israel, and they fled euery man to their tents.

A few weeks ago, we took a look at Deuteronomy 17:5, where it seems that the use of "singular they" is sanctioned by the Masoretic Hebrew text, and by the Greek of the Septuagint as well ("Is 'singular they' verbally and plenarily inspired of God?", 8/21/2006):

Then shalt thou bring forth that man, or that woman (which haue committed that wicked thing) vnto thy gates, euen that man, or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones till they die.

I'm not sure about the original-language versions of the five verses cited in Wayne's post, but it seems that there is solid divine sanction for "singular they" in English. So would it be blasphemous to turn this into the obvious slogan, suitable for bumper stickers, t-shirts and coffee cups?

"Singular they": God said it, I believe it, that settles it.

Yes, I'm sorry. It's tempting, the irony is delicious, but it would be wrong. In fact, for a linguist to invoke divine authority to prescribe the use of any linguistic pattern, even one forbidden by ignorant earthly tyrants, is tantamount to apostasy.

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003572.html




0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 10:35 pm
@JTT,
Oh, but not everyone can be so well versed as you.......it makes us mere mortals weep and (Oh I can't continue with a straight face, you are so rich) I only have familiarity with 8 languages, how can I hope that you would (in your vast ego) ever understand what I mean by peeve. By the way, you do understand that this thread was meant to be a place to air peeves, in a light fashion, not for every self-styled critic to drop by and crap all over others ideas of "pet peeve"? I am still breathlessly awaiting any "hint" of what you consider valid reference books (English grammar type) that you might respect (snicker). Maybe the Scientologists have published something profound.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 11:01 pm
@glitterbag,
Quote:
I am still breathlessly awaiting any "hint" of what you consider valid reference books (English grammar type) that you might respect


Yes, do take care of yourself, Glitter. I thought that they had gotten you fixed up.

It would be much more instructive if you were to bring your sources to the table, the ones that offer support for your peeves.

Quote:
By the way, you do understand that this thread was meant to be a place to air peeves, in a light fashion, not for every self-styled critic to drop by and crap all over others ideas of "pet peeve"?


I missed the Rules According to Glitterbag posting. Perhaps you could direct me to it.

Setanta long ago tried that line of bullshit. It didn't fly then and it doesn't fly now. You are a stubborn one but you have to take note that your peeve wasn't even close to being an accurate description of language.

As I told Set then, peeve away but try to do a modicum of homework first. You'll probably find that your peeve has been done before and that it's bogus.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Aug, 2009 11:54 pm
@glitterbag,

Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike
All gone to look for America...
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Aug, 2009 12:05 am

Steven Fry (Hugh Laurie's pal) is doing a great series on BBC radio just now which would be right up your respective streets, on English usage etc etc: but I think the BBC i-player won't work outside the licenced area.

Shame that. But look out for it, it's good.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00m15v8/Frys_English_Delight_Series_2_Speaking_Proper/
0 Replies
 
 

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