What are your pet peeves re English usage?

@McTag,

Thank you McTag, that was refreshing. I think the author is correct, people will snicker that someone is an "egg head" and it wasn't too long ago, that having a college education could be mocked by those who didn't. There was a sentiment that people with advanced degrees were show offs.

Someone else came up with this remark but I think it describes what is happening in some levels....the remark was "We wind up celebrating stupid as a virtue". That author stated that some people believe that if you are educated you can't be an average joe. That might explain why this country lags behind so many others in Math and Science.

Thanks again for mopping up the blood, sorry if I contributed too much to the mess.

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@spendius,

Quote:

There is Partridge and Fowler ...

I've heard of Partridge but I've not read any of his stuff. Fowler is prettty much useless as a source for the English of today. I wonder what books are responsible for influencing UK prescriptivists?

Quote:

Style is personal. You should trust your's JT and reinforce it with wider reading.

I agree, Spendi, style is personal. But the issues surrounding these peeves are not merely a question of style.

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Wow, can't let it go, can you?

1 Reply

@glitterbag,

glitterbag wrote:

Thank you McTag, that was refreshing. I think the author is correct, people will snicker that someone is an
"egg head" and it wasn't too long ago, that having a college education could be mocked by those who didn't. There was a sentiment that people with advanced degrees were show offs.

Someone else came up with this remark but I think it describes what is happening in some levels....the remark was "We wind up celebrating stupid as a virtue". That author stated that some people believe that if you are educated you can't be an average joe. That might explain why this country lags behind so many others in Math and Science.

Thanks again for mopping up the blood, sorry if I contributed too much to the mess.

That was not my experience.
When conversing with less educated citizens,
I have found them usually to say nothing at all
about the merits of college degrees or advanced degrees,
but if thay address the subject, thay have implicitly
or explicitly declared their wish to have some.
That also applied to my legal education, when I was in practice.

Your remark about celebrating stupidity as a virtue applies to JTT.
Anyway, it did when I was in communication with him.

David

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@glitterbag,

Quote:

Thank you McTag, that was refreshing. I think the author is correct, people will snicker that someone is an "egg head" and it wasn't too long ago, that having a college education could be mocked by those who didn't. There was a sentiment that people with advanced degrees were show offs.

You see that here at A2K, GB. Merry tries to ridicule Steven Pinker, others G Pullum, without actually addressing any of the issues they raise. Why? Because these scholars point up that the long-cherished prescriptions held by such people are complete nonsense.

Even though you decry such behavior yourself, you're unwilling to challenge or have challenged some of the same long-cherished prescriptions you hold to.

Quote:

Someone else came up with this remark but I think it describes what is happening in some levels....the remark was "We wind up celebrating stupid as a virtue". That author stated that some people believe that if you are educated you can't be an average joe. That might explain why this country lags behind so many others in Math and Science.

When it comes to English grammar and prescriptions, many people have, for a good long time celebrated stupid as a virtue. They continue to this day.

I don't know the causes for Math and Science and I don't even know the relative positions "this country" holds, but as regards knowledge of English grammar, the S&W generation's understanding is dismal indeed.

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

but if thay address the subject, thay have implicitly
or explicitly declared their wish to have some.

David can say this but when he's presented with views from experts in the field of language that show that many of his ideas on language are foolish nonsense, what does he do? He hides from it.

I hope that you haven't decided to follow the same course, GB. That would be particularly ironic given what you've written in your recent postings.

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

That was not my experience.
When conversing with less educated citizens,
I have found them usually to say nothing at all
about the merits of college degrees or advanced degrees,
but if thay address the subject, thay have implicitly
or explicitly declared their wish to have some.
That also applied to my legal education, when I was in practice.

I have met a few legal people and I have never heard of one who expresses him or herself so awkwardly and boorishly.

Members of the legal profession in the UK are near the top of the Most Despised Professions list. For the best authors they are top seeing as how they rate football referees as inconsequential.

1 Reply

@glitterbag,

Quote:

Wow, can't let it go, can you?

Why should we?

1 Reply

@spendius,

Especially, when one considers that it was Glitterbag who raised the issues.

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@spendius,

Quote:

That was not my experience.
When conversing with less educated citizens,
I have found them usually to say nothing at all
about the merits of college degrees or advanced degrees,
but if thay address the subject, thay have implicitly
or explicitly declared their wish to have some.
That also applied to my legal education, when I was in practice.

spendius wrote:

Quote:

I have met a few legal people and I have never heard of one
who expresses him or herself so awkwardly and boorishly.

I surmise that this is an attack upon my use of fonetic spelling,
as if it were rong to correct defects. I have already explained
this and will not do so again now, unless requested to do so.
As to what u said about expressing myself "boorishly"
if u r more specific, then I will address your complaint.

Is it what Glitterbag referred to qua jealousy
resulting from an inadquate education? or something else?

spendius wrote:

Quote:

Members of the legal profession in the UK
are near the top of the Most Despised Professions list.

Is that significant to something?
Do u think thay care?

spendius wrote:

Quote:

For the best authors they are top seeing as how
they rate football referees as inconsequential.

Football has always been devoid of consequence, so far as I am aware,
except for the occasional injuries to its players, but thay assumed the risk.

David

1 Reply

Spendius, JTT
I don't care that you can't let it go, have at it, it's all just information for me.
JTT: I didn't raise the "issues", my short-term memory deprived friend, I simply added a line or two to this thread describing my "Pet Peeves". I don't have a clue what you are having trouble with unless it's merely to make someone say Uncle. I don't know who you admire or respect when it comes to the English language, and you haven't mentioned anyone or any institution yet. I suspect you are just arguing for arguments sake.

I'm beginning to think I'm in a discussion with Lewis Carroll. You folks enjoy yourself but I think I need to talk to adults now, no offense, it just that this nonsense is getting tedious. Maybe JTT, people drop out of your treads because they are getting bored? I decided long ago that I have no obligation to bang my head against the wall just because some stranger likes to do it.

I hope that we can have a civil discussion on some other topic, I am not trying to offend you, it's just this topic have been hijacked and I'm not as willing as I might have been years ago to continue. Frankly, this tangent is something that would be interesting in a college dorm, drinking a lot of beer and staying up until dawn. Been there, done that....and we don't seem to making any headway.

1 Reply

@glitterbag,

You're right, your initial venture was a few lines, GB. Then I pointed out to you how you were mistaken about 'disrespect' being a verb, mistaken by about 400 years, then the conversation expanded to 'respect' on which you were also mistaken, this time by a hundred years or so less.

Then you wrote a long long piece wherein you expressed a desire to discuss some language issues. That desire ended abruptly, I surmise, when you were confronted by a whole lot of stuff you didn't want challenging your cherished peeves.

But during the entire process when you were "in", you offered nothing from any source to support either your peeves or your ideas on language. It's difficult to make any headway when all one side does is repeat old canards.

People drop out of these threads because they hate having their peeves blown up in front of them and they aren't knowledgeable enough, who would be, to defend nonsense.

Now, after you malign both language and the people who use that language, you seek to make a graceful exit. To do that, I'd say that a measure of honesty is in order. Your peeve on the two verbs was nonsense. And you've not addressed that at all. It seems that you've tried to avoid it.

I'm not trying to offend you either, but it appears that you are one of those people I just mentioned.

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

I surmise that this is an attack upon my use of fonetic spelling,
as if it were rong to correct defects. I have already explained
this and will not do so again now, unless requested to do so.
As to what u said about expressing myself "boorishly"
if u r more specific, then I will address your complaint.

Speaking for myself I am happy and relieved that you are not going to explain your affectation, the bee in your bonnet, all over again unless requested to do so.

Your boorishness was your reference to "less educated citizens" . And I wasn't complaining about it. I was just stating a fact. Stating facts is not complaining.

Quote:

Is that significant to something?
Do u think thay care?

Neither do rats care about being the most despised rodent.

1 Reply

JTT, it's difficult to address the "problems or wrongs" you talk about because frankly it makes no sense to me. I did try to address your earlier criticism because I was willing to entertain the idea you might actually be trying to discuss differences. What seems to be happening, is that you are some sort of language snob or reverse snob and I am not familiar with the direction you are taking. I'll probably make a few comments here from time to time, but I can't take you seriously and although you think I am trying to make a graceful exit, I am just no longer willing to engage someone insisting on such boorish behaviour.

You are not serious and I don't see any incentive to help educate you. Participation here is a choice not an obligation. If you can come up with some actual sources, I would be happy to check them out. Perhaps you are right but just can't express yourself in a way adults can fathom.

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@glitterbag,

That's an example of my main peeve re English usage.

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@spendius,

Quote:

I surmise that this is an attack upon my use of fonetic spelling,
as if it were rong to correct defects. I have already explained
this and will not do so again now, unless requested to do so.
As to what u said about expressing myself "boorishly"
if u r more specific, then I will address your complaint.

spendius wrote:

Quote:

Speaking for myself I am happy and relieved that you are not
going to explain your affectation, the bee in your bonnet,
all over again unless requested to do so.

Speaking for myself, I am happy n relieved
that u r happy n relieved.

spendius wrote:

Quote:

Your boorishness was your reference to "less educated citizens" .
And I wasn't complaining about it. I was just stating a fact. Stating facts is not complaining.

I did not intend to impugn the quality
nor the extent of your educuation, Spendius.
I 'm sorry if I hit a nerve.
I did not know that u were sensitive on this point.

Quote:

Is that significant to something?
Do u think thay care?

spendius wrote:

Quote:

Neither do rats care about being the most despised rodent.

Will u reveal the source of your knowledge of what rats care about?
I am certain that u r not speaking from personal experience.
Absolutely not !

1 Reply

@glitterbag,

Quote:

JTT, it's difficult to address the "problems or wrongs" you talk about because frankly it makes no sense to me.

Why didn't you first address that you were mistaken about 'respect/disrespect? You were given a direct link, that you asked for, to the Merriam Webster site for both words.

Quote:

I did try to address your earlier criticism because I was willing to entertain the idea you might actually be trying to discuss differences. What seems to be happening, is that you are some sort of language snob or reverse snob and I am not familiar with the direction you are taking.

It's clear that you have a long way to go, GB and it's also clear that you're not willing to do any heavy lifting, any lifting to get there. All your comments have sounded like a "turn of the century" grammar marm.

Quote:

I'll probably make a few comments here from time to time, but I can't take you seriously and although you think I am trying to make a graceful exit, I am just no longer willing to engage someone insisting on such boorish behaviour.

"boorish" is making unfounded allegations about language and the people who use language. You're still talking around the subject, throwing out ianane generalities all aimed at directing the conversation away from the fact that you were wrong.

Quote:

You are not serious and I don't see any incentive to help educate you. Participation here is a choice not an obligation. If you can come up with some actual sources, I would be happy to check them out. Perhaps you are right but just can't express yourself in a way adults can fathom.

I'm the one that provided every source in every post, GB. Not a one came from you, not a one!

They were actual sources, as I've explained to you more than once, but that rolled off your prescriptive feathers too.

I've not said you are required to participate. I allowed that you could cut and run but you owe it to yourself at least to admit you were dead wrong on your peeve, in more than one respect.

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

Speaking for myself, I am happy n relieved that u r happy n relieved.

David, 'n' is not a phonetic for 'and'. If you want to be taken seriously on your grand plan for reforming spelling you have to show some consistency, at least a wee bit of logic.

Maybe it's all just a ploy to hide the fact that you can't spell all that well. If that's the case, you should know that it doesn't really matter.

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@glitterbag,

glitterbag wrote:

JTT, it's difficult to address the "problems or wrongs" you talk about because frankly it makes no sense to me. I did try to address your earlier criticism because I was willing to entertain the idea you might actually be trying to discuss differences. What seems to be happening, is that you are some sort of language snob or reverse snob and I am not familiar with the direction you are taking. I'll probably make a few comments here from time to time, but I can't take you seriously and although you think I am trying to make a graceful exit, I am just no longer willing to engage someone insisting on such boorish behaviour.

You are not serious and I don't see any incentive to help educate you. Participation here is a choice not an obligation. If you can come up with some actual sources, I would be happy to check them out. Perhaps you are right but just can't express yourself in a way adults can fathom.

Sadly, your points are well taken.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

Sadly, your points are well taken.

You couldn't know that, David, unless you were able to see all the facts associated with the case. This isn't a terribly difficult piece of logic to grasp.

And you were a lawyer, right?

I think you may well be lying when you say that you have this person and that person on ignore.

0 Replies

What are your pet peeves re English usage?

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