63
   

What are your pet peeves re English usage?

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2008 05:54 pm
The BBC!!??

They covered, all afternoon, the Ascot races and the King George and Queen Elizabeth Stakes in particular. And a great race it turned out to be.

And then on the late News we get "And now today's sport" and they did 20/20 cricket, tennis (I ask you?) and summer rugby and no mention of their own network's brilliant programme and thus no reprise of a fantastic horse race.

What can anybody say? Gump City is the BBC News.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Jul, 2008 10:23 pm
I don't like horse racing particularly, or anything with horses in it except maybe ploughing competitions.

More to the point, I don't think the BBC should promote interest in gambling on the results, with their daily radio racing tips. Why should a public service broadcaster do that? Many a widow's mite must have been wasted on the strength of that dubious practice. Okay for Her Madge, she can afford to lose a bit.
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jul, 2008 02:39 am
My auntie was a Colonel in the Salvation Army (they are dead against gambling of any sort) and I asked her why, in principle, they opposed gambling, and why they included football pools. She said they weren't opposed to the placing of all bets, only money ones, so that if I bet you a chocolate bar that Red Rover would win the 2.30 at Haydock that would be OK. This was because of the damage done to poor peoples lives by the gambling away of money that should be spent on things like child nutrition. As for the pools, she said it was an unfair system, because for one person to win the jackpot, many thousands of people had to lose to provide the money.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jul, 2008 03:54 am
Contrex's granny was right. Or is right, no point in assuming the worst.

Roman Abramovich owns Chelsea by spending money which a lot of poor Russian peasants have been cheated of.
And mug punters pay top dollar for tickets there, too.

But not me or Spendy.
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jul, 2008 04:35 am
McTag wrote:
Contrex's granny was right. Or is right, no point in assuming the worst.


Well, she was my auntie, not my granny, and she died, or rather was "promoted to Glory" as the Sally Ann calls it. in 1988, She did not think of going to heaven as the "worst" thing that would happen.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2008 04:22 pm
This from the paper today. It's about style, correctness, and language changes.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jul/28/1
0 Replies
 
whiteviolet
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2008 04:44 pm
I think maybe you sometimes try to be too clever by half on this thread! I disagree with McTag's narrow interpretation of the word "evacuate", for example. The dictionaries I have checked show that both a place that is vacated AND people who are withdrawn are properly described as "evacuated".

I think it is a valid cause for concern that the general standard of speech, spelling and written communication has greatly deteriorated in the past 25 years or so but some posters being so pedantic and self- satisfied doesn't help improve that situation - especially when the peeves are plain wrong!
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2008 04:46 pm
Hey I didn't say I agreed with it. I just thought it was funny.

(I don't agree with it)
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2008 04:56 pm
White Violet, you're being just as snotty and condescending as you have recently accused others of being. Your tone is patronizing and disgusting, and i see no reason to consider that you have a superior expertise or a more privileged point of view.

******************************************

contrex wrote:
My auntie was a Colonel in the Salvation Army (they are dead against gambling of any sort) and I asked her why, in principle, they opposed gambling, and why they included football pools. She said they weren't opposed to the placing of all bets, only money ones, so that if I bet you a chocolate bar that Red Rover would win the 2.30 at Haydock that would be OK. This was because of the damage done to poor peoples lives by the gambling away of money that should be spent on things like child nutrition. As for the pools, she said it was an unfair system, because for one person to win the jackpot, many thousands of people had to lose to provide the money.


I consider that to have been a sensible point of view--lotteries and pools usually just function as new ways to tax or fleece the poor. The Women's Christian Temperance Union was based on the same principle--that the booze destroyed the families of the working class and the poor. In particular, they attacked taverns as pits of sin and vice, not from any holy roller frenzy, but because especially in the late 19th and early 20th century, they functioned as banks for men who were getting paid on Saturday after the half-day, and spending the rest of the day in the tavern, going home broke on the one day in the week when they had cash in their hands and "household" money available.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2008 05:20 pm
Setanta wrote:
White Violet, you're being just as snotty and condescending as you have recently accused others of being. Your tone is patronizing and disgusting, and i see no reason to consider that you have a superior expertise or a more privileged point of view.


This coming from the king of snotty and condescending.

While WV doesn't have a more privileged point of view, any old canard on language can be [and has been] rolled out here, she is right about the vast majority of language peeves have little to no merit.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2008 05:24 pm
whiteviolet wrote:


I think it is a valid cause for concern that the general standard of speech, spelling and written communication has greatly deteriorated in the past 25 years or so but some posters being so pedantic and self- satisfied doesn't help improve that situation - especially when the peeves are plain wrong!


Every generation has a tendency to believe that language is in decline, that it is just not what it was in the good old days. Well, that's simply not the case, White Violet.

Language changes, that's true, but not for the better or the worse.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jul, 2008 08:03 pm
I just cuiled a whole bunch of stuff, CUIL!

Quote:
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2008 03:22 pm
JTT wrote-

Quote:
Language changes, that's true, but not for the better or the worse.


It depends what better or worse means and to whom.

Changes might produce an increase in alienation due to them being less able to carry authentic meaning which, on the other hand, is of benefit to the economic system.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2008 07:34 pm
spendius wrote:
JTT wrote-

Quote:
Language changes, that's true, but not for the better or the worse.


It depends what better or worse means and to whom.

Changes might produce an increase in alienation due to them being less able to carry authentic meaning which, on the other hand, is of benefit to the economic system.


Language has always had within, the ability to state anything, Spendius. Changes to language can't change that simple fact. Authenticity is not a function of language; language itself is neutral. It merely offers a speaker the chance to choose one or the other, or any number of middlin's between the two.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Aug, 2008 01:41 pm
You mean like "The train now entering platform 7 etc" ?

Culture has language as its DNA. Giambattista Vico is the man to read on the matter. You are meaning novelties. Ephemeral things really. Used as badges of solidarity. Or aggression.

The only new languages are journalese and scientificese.

Our language is steeped in Christian blood. I find it easier to accept the fact.

Quote:
Language has always had within, the ability to state anything,


It can only state what the language is capable of stating. In that context it is ironic that an American student can "Major" in French, say.

It's an interesting matter really. Biology's boring.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Aug, 2008 05:32 pm
spendius wrote:
You mean like "The train now entering platform 7 etc" ?


I don't know if I mean that because I don't know what you mean.

spendius wrote:

Culture has language as its DNA. Giambattista Vico is the man to read on the matter. You are meaning novelties. Ephemeral things really. Used as badges of solidarity. Or aggression.

The only new languages are journalese and scientificese.


These two use the same language structures as everyone else. I don't know how they could be describes as new languages.

spendius wrote:

Our language is steeped in Christian blood. I find it easier to accept the fact.


I don't understand your point, Spendius.

Quote:
JTT: Language has always had within, the ability to state anything,


spendius wrote:

It can only state what the language is capable of stating. In that context it is ironic that an American student can "Major" in French, say.

It's an interesting matter really. Biology's boring.


Again, I don't understand your point.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Aug, 2008 05:17 pm
If you look in the index of Spengler's Decline of the West under "Language" you will find over 60 entries. Mostly in the chapter Peoples, Races and Tongues.

Maybe you should have a look at that JTT.

I can't be expected to distill it all down to some soundbites.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Aug, 2008 05:55 pm
spendius wrote:
If you look in the index of Spengler's Decline of the West under "Language" you will find over 60 entries. Mostly in the chapter Peoples, Races and Tongues.

Maybe you should have a look at that JTT.

I can't be expected to distill it all down to some soundbites.


You made the initial point, Spendius. I believed it to be your contention, not something gleaned from a book somewhere.

I don't think that

"You mean like "The train now entering platform 7 etc" ?" and "It can only state what the language is capable of stating. In that context it is ironic that an American student can "Major" in French, say.

It's an interesting matter really. Biology's boring"

are going to be discussed in Spengler's Decline of the West.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Aug, 2008 03:33 am
JTT-

Most of what little I know derives from books. The remainder comes from appetite.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Aug, 2008 03:51 am
Hey I've just volunteered to be a literacy coach in our local authority's education programme next winter.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

McTag's war against creeping Americanisms and the adultery of our language is intensifying.

Smile
0 Replies
 
 

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