FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2014 06:11 pm
Apparently, we should believe without evidence just because "Brandon says." Pass.
0 Replies
 
brandonsays
 
  0  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2014 06:15 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Cicerone, a truth claim is just that, a claim. I did not say that those claims are necessarily true. Please learn the meaning of "truth claim." Then maybe we can continue.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2014 06:21 pm
@brandonsays,
I already explained it; it's all subjective to the perceiver.
Where did you learn English?

I posted this on the previous page.
Quote:
@brandonsays,
Religion like politics "seems" to have truth claims. They are perceived by the person who believes in their religion/political party to be truth, but there are many aspects of both that can be shown to be lies.

They are all 'subjective' truths. That's the reason why many different political parties and religions can exist together.
brandonsays
 
  0  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2014 06:26 pm
@cicerone imposter,
You asserted it, but you hardly explained anything.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2014 06:52 pm
@brandonsays,
Here's a lesson for you in simple English.

On the subject of "truth claims."

Definition of assertion.
Quote:
Definition of assertion (n)
Bing Dictionary
as·ser·tion[ ə súrsh'n ]
emphatic statement: a strong statement that something is true

My assertion:
Quote:
They are all 'subjective' truths.


Definition of explanation.
Quote:
Definition of explanation (n)
Bing Dictionary
ex·pla·na·tion[ èksplə náysh'n ]
statement explaining something: a statement giving reasons for something or details of something

My explanation:
Quote:
That's the reason why many different political parties and religions can exist together.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2014 07:05 pm
@brandonsays,
You wrote,
Quote:
I do not believe that science has "proven" anything of the sort that you suggest.


Explain why? Just saying "you don't believe something" is not an answer.
0 Replies
 
brandonsays
 
  0  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2014 07:19 pm
@cicerone imposter,
You have not demonstrated that you understand what a truth claim is. You implied that religious truth claims are only "supposed" truth claims. That's absurd. A person claiming somethimg as truth is making a truth claim. Whether it is in fact true, subjective, objective or otherwise is an entirely different issue. I think it is you who needs an English lesson.

But let's move on. Shall we? I believe religions makd certain trith claims.. the truth of some of those claims is subjective, while some of it objective. It is not all subjective, as you asserted. You could not know this, even if it were so. And just one example of objectivity from a religious source would destroy that assertion.

So here it is.

A person by the name Paul of Tarsus is an historical figure.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2014 07:25 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
No, you don't get truth from religion and/or emotion. If religion was based on truth, why are there so many different religions based on different gods?
Because the God who created us and the god of this world are not the same person.
Quote:
We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. (1John 5:19)
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2014 07:25 pm
None of which does jack towards substantiating the claim that there is a god.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2014 07:39 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

None of which does jack towards substantiating the claim that there is a god.


Frankly...I don't think anything does jack towards substantiating the claim that there is a god.

And, I don't think anything does jack towards substantiating the claim that there are no gods.

We do not know if there are....or are not.

Not sure why that causes some people so much trouble...but obviously it does.

Seems to me the best thing to do is not to assert in either direction...and just acknowledge that we do not know.


cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2014 07:42 pm
@neologist,
Who created the god that created this universe?
Prove it and source it - in human terms.

Since we are the descendants of primates, are all primates also the 'children of god?'

Why weren't they exposed to this god, and their promised reward in heaven - if they lived in accordance with his laws?

When did primates begin to sin that displeased this god?
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2014 07:47 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Agreed. A lot of grief could be avoided if people could train themselves to be comfortable with not knowing and admitting such.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2014 08:44 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Who created the god that created this universe?
Prove it and source it - in human terms.
Speaking of Jesus:
Quote:
(Colossians 1:15-17) . . .He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist. . .
cicerone imposter wrote:
Since we are the descendants of primates, are all primates also the 'children of god?'

Why weren't they exposed to this god, and their promised reward in heaven - if they lived in accordance with his laws?

When did primates begin to sin that displeased this god?
How entertaining, CI
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 May, 2014 09:33 pm
@neologist,
Of coarse it's entertaining! You are unable to answer simple questions.
If your god is invisible, how can anybody know he even exists? Ah, many call it "faith."
Let's see; "thou shalt have no other gods before me."
Ghostbusters has a better story.

The bible says, "Genesis 1:27 - So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

What happened to invisible? Also, does your god have a penis? What is the 'age' of your god that resembles humans? Humans or primates?

Your god has eyes, ears, nose, all the senses of humans? Brains and a heart?

Or is the inside of god bionic? Does god's body age with time? How old was he when he was "born?" Who created this god?

Why does god have a stomach? Does he have to eat to survive? How about liquor? Does he drink milk?

Did god wave his hand and say, "let there be light?"

Man can't be in the image of god. Before evolution took effect on the ape to transform into homo sapiens, god should then resemble a primate - and not man. That's if god didn't suffer from evolution.

So much confusion and contradictions!
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 May, 2014 12:20 am
@cicerone imposter,
I dunno. It seems many humans don't have brains, after all.
0 Replies
 
usmankhalid665
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 May, 2014 08:12 am
Dear all, have you studied Quran? If not, do some hard work to search the answers of your questions. Or consult to some islamic scholar. This forum will not helps you to reach at any conclusion. Do research on islamic views. Dont fight with people here.
Thanks
neologist
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 May, 2014 10:37 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Of coarse [sic] it's entertaining! You are unable to answer simple questions.
If your god is invisible, how can anybody know he even exists? Ah, many call it "faith."
Let's see; "thou shalt have no other gods before me."
Ghostbusters has a better story.

The bible says, "Genesis 1:27 - So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

What happened to invisible? Also, does your god have a penis? What is the 'age' of your god that resembles humans? Humans or primates?

Your god has eyes, ears, nose, all the senses of humans? Brains and a heart?

Or is the inside of god bionic? Does god's body age with time? How old was he when he was "born?" Who created this god?

Why does god have a stomach? Does he have to eat to survive? How about liquor? Does he drink milk?

Did god wave his hand and say, "let there be light?"

Man can't be in the image of god. Before evolution took effect on the ape to transform into homo sapiens, god should then resemble a primate - and not man. That's if god didn't suffer from evolution.

So much confusion and contradictions!
As I said a few minutes ago on another thread. You have continued to ignore the obvious explanation that has been offered to you many times, namely that we are in God's image by virtue of our attributes: love, justice, wisdom, and free will, to name a few.
Do you continue to throw red herrings and strawmen because the intellectual argument requires too much mental effort? I hardly think so. Yet you persist.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 May, 2014 10:42 am
@neologist,
You are, apparently, unable to discuss the titular topic without begging the question.
neologist
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 May, 2014 10:43 am
@usmankhalid665,
usmankhalid665 wrote:
Dear all, have you studied Quran? If not, do some hard work to search the answers of your questions. Or consult to some islamic scholar. This forum will not helps you to reach at any conclusion. Do research on islamic views. Dont fight with people here.
Thanks.
No!
Emphatically, no!
Jesus' sacrifice is the only remedy for mankind.
The Bible contains all the information humans need for salvation.
The last chapter of the Bible warns against those who would add to its instruction. (Mormons take note, also.)
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 May, 2014 10:51 am
@neologist,
You wrote,
Quote:
You have continued to ignore the obvious explanation that has been offered to you many times, namely that we are in God's image by virtue of our attributes: love, justice, wisdom, and free will, to name a few.


He has failed miserably; human history is rife about tribal wars that killed millions. Your list of attributes is an ideal that doesn't exist in reality for the majority. That's the reason we hear daily about suicide bombers, wars, murders, rape, robbery, and all manners of other crimes. Open your eyes; it's all there for everybody to see!

It's in the 'nature' of humans. We are supposed to be a 'christian country,' but we ignore domestic and international laws when we go into sovereign countries to kill tens of thousands of innocent people - with the support of our government and people.
 

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