Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2014 10:20 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:
Deliberate sin by those who know the truth is not forgiven. (Although, the way is always open for repentance)


That is a contradiction. Repentance is the attempt to obtain forgiveness. If something is unforgivable then no amount of repentance would result in forgiveness.

Blasphemy against the trinity is suppose to be an unforgivable sin. Meaning once you do it there is no chance for repentance.

"I deny the father the son and the holy ghost."

Saying that right there is non-redeemable. (well according to christianity)
The fact that this line exists to say that there is an action that can be taken where a god would never forgive it proves that the christian god (characteristics that christianity tries to proclaim god has) are false.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2014 11:31 am
Simply put; it exists in the minds of people. That's all that counts in this world of what humans perceive as our reality. Billions of people confirm it every day.
0 Replies
 
anonymously99
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2014 01:23 pm
@neologist,
Deliberate.ly I believe is wrong. Why we must live a life, our life the way God approves.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2014 01:51 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote:
Blasphemy against the trinity is suppose to be an unforgivable sin. Meaning once you do it there is no chance for repentance.

"I deny the father the son and the holy ghost."
BZZZT!
Straw man!
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2014 02:08 pm
@neologist,
Krumple wrote:

"I deny the father the son and the holy ghost."


neologist wrote:

BZZZT!
Straw man!


“I promise you that any of the sinful things you say or do can be forgiven, no matter how terrible those things are. But if you speak against the Holy Spirit, you can never be forgiven. That sin will be held against you forever.” — Mark 3:28-29 (CEV)

Doesn't matter if you think it, doesn't matter if any christian thinks it. I am referring to the text. Or is that a strawman?

You are an idiot..



anonymously99
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2014 02:13 pm
@Krumple,
Is it wrong of me to feel sad for you? What does what I just said mean?
RexRed
 
  2  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2014 02:27 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

I wrote:
Have you read the passage?
anonymously99 wrote:
Why would you ask that question?
Because it's self explanatory.
Quote:
For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left.
Deliberate sin by those who know the truth is not forgiven. (Although, the way is always open for repentance)


Perhaps you are right Neo, that deliberate sin is not forgiven but the problem is not in that but the definition of sin is culturally and biblically subjective and the ambiguity of the Bible does not reliably define what sins really are.

We are supposed to believe that homosexuality is a sin by a man who has never even married (Paul the Apostle).

And Jesus never condemns homosexuals or the act thereof but has a chance to on many occasions considering (according to biblical historians) the huge amount of Roman homosexuals at the time..

Jesus does condemn divorce and how many divorcees live in a perpetual state of sin? SHAME ON THEM HELL AND DAMNATION! (cynical)

Thou shalt not kill, yet what about murder?

An who will decide these matters, you alone Neo? Of all the thousands of varying interpretations of "the law" which shall we choose as being the truth?

And what of science? Is not science a law unto itself the law of gravity and the law of evolution? What of that "truth" when it contradicts biblical law?

In other words, science in MANY NUMEROUS cases has proven biblical laws feeble and unworthy of trust. Devils spirits cause sickness? Not bacteria and disease? "Sinless" people don't get sick?

In God we trust? Which God? Muslim? Jew? Christian or is God not in the universe also as science? And what about the truth being "written in our hearts"?

Also what of the passages of clear scientific error like a flat earth, a 6000 year old universe and Adam and Eve clearly contradicting a wealth of scientific evidence?

Does a tortuous carry the sun across the sky everyday? This is the truth of a deity also. So to deny that a tortuous carries the sun is a sin and to deny that... you are UNFORGIVABLE and live in a perpetual state of SIN!

Jesus said, you build your house on the sand and the rains come and wash it away. Though that is a parable I will reveal its message.

God is the sand and people are the house and/or temple and science comes along and washes away the sand. Those who build their house on God they become washed away by things like evidence and careful testable observation.

Don't believe in evolution? Well that is a greater sin against humanity and life than loving your same sex partner which is no sin at all...

Homophobia is the sin and homophobia is deplorable and for the most part unforgivable without repentance. Just the opposite of what the Bible seems to teach. So the Bible is unforgivable without repentance and built upon shifting sands and it is clearly not a rock of truth...

That does not mean there are not some lovely passages in the Bible but there are just as many lovely passages in Life, Look, Time, The Reader's Digest and The Saturday Evening Post. Smile
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2014 02:38 pm
@anonymously99,
anonymously99 wrote:

Is it wrong of me to feel sad for you? What does what I just said mean?


It does not matter to me at all what you think of me. I could not care any less.
anonymously99
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2014 03:48 pm
@Krumple,
There are many commands our Lord has given us to obey. The two greatest are as follows:

-         Jesus taught us in Matt. 22:37-38, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment.” Our love for God must be the greatest and strongest love we have in our lives. We must put our Lord first in every endeavor we attempt, we must submit to our Master’s will in everything we do. We must obey His commands by doing everything He would have us do and abstaining from everything He would not have us do.
-         Jesus instructed us in Matt. 22:39, “And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself.” We try to love others as we would be loved. We are to love even our enemies and do good to those who do evil to us. Jesus also said in John 13:34, “As I have loved you love one another.” We must strive to love those in Christ as much as Jesus loved us.
Jesus told us in Matt. 22:40, “All the law and the prophets hang on these two commandments.” These two commands supersede all others. They are the ones that should be emphasized to all children, they are the ones that should be put up on display for all to see, all to obey.
Krumple
 
  2  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2014 04:01 pm
@anonymously99,
anonymously99 wrote:

There are many commands our Lord has given us to obey. The two greatest are as follows:

-         Jesus taught us in Matt. 22:37-38, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment.” Our love for God must be the greatest and strongest love we have in our lives. We must put our Lord first in every endeavor we attempt, we must submit to our Master’s will in everything we do. We must obey His commands by doing everything He would have us do and abstaining from everything He would not have us do.
-         Jesus instructed us in Matt. 22:39, “And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself.” We try to love others as we would be loved. We are to love even our enemies and do good to those who do evil to us. Jesus also said in John 13:34, “As I have loved you love one another.” We must strive to love those in Christ as much as Jesus loved us.
Jesus told us in Matt. 22:40, “All the law and the prophets hang on these two commandments.” These two commands supersede all others. They are the ones that should be emphasized to all children, they are the ones that should be put up on display for all to see, all to obey.


Blah blah blah blah blah. It is all nonsense.
anonymously99
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2014 04:05 pm
@Krumple,
Our Lord’s Commands

There are many commands our Lord has given us to obey. The two greatest are as follows:

- Jesus taught us in Matt. 22:37-38, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment.” Our love for God must be the greatest and strongest love we have in our lives. We must put our Lord first in every endeavor we attempt, we must submit to our Master’s will in everything we do. We must obey His commands by doing everything He would have us do and abstaining from everything He would not have us do.- Jesus instructed us in Matt. 22:39, “And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself.” We try to love others as we would be loved. We are to love even our enemies and do good to those who do evil to us. Jesus also said in John 13:34, “As I have loved you love one another.” We must strive to love those in Christ as much as Jesus loved us.Jesus told us in Matt. 22:40, “All the law and the prophets hang on these two commandments.” These two commands supersede all others. They are the ones that should be emphasized to all children, they are the ones that should be put up on display for all to see, all to obey.



All sins come from the heart, they are spiritual. They come from the lack of an obedient love for our God, from the lack of a caring love for all people. It is impossible to list all the situations in which we sin by ignoring our God, by hurting our neighbors. Sometimes we are even unaware of the sins we commit. Jesus can forgive all of our sins except one. When we reject the Holy Spirit, not allowing Him into our hearts, not allowing Him to introduce us to our Lord, not allowing Him to keep Jesus in our hearts.



Some of our Lord’s commands were Old Covenant ceremonial laws to make the people aware of the Savior to come, and a means of forgiving their sins until He came. Jesus Christ’s death fulfilled these ceremonial laws, they are needed no more. We are to obey all of Christ’s commands that He taught us in the Gospels. We are also to follow the New Testament teachings of the apostles on how our Lord would have us live in the New Covenant. We should also obey the moral Old Covenant laws not redefined in the New Covenant. Listed below are other specific commands of our Lord. They are paraphrased from the Bible:

- That we should have no other gods, nor worship, bow down, or call upon any other idols, heavenly beings, statues, or anything else in heaven or earth.

- Do not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. Do not curse by calling down the anger of God on anyone. Do not use His name carelessly or by swearing an oath to prove you are telling the truth where a simple yes or no will do. Do not swear falsely by His name.

- Do not lie. Tell the simple truth. Honor your pledges as God has honored His

- We should worship our God in fellowship with other Christians gladly hearing and learning His word. Each can worship any day or time they desire. Where two or three are gathered together in Christ’s name, He will be there also. We should support those are called for specific work by the Lord, both with prayers and sustaining them with their physical needs. We should bring the knowledge of our Lord to all nations. Congregations should be led by elders, men seasoned with a strong Christian faith and picked by the congregation they lead. Their requirements can be found in 1Timothy 3 and Titus 1. We should take our disputes to the elders to be settled quickly, trying to avoid secular courts.

- Honor your father and mother that it may be well with you and you will live long on the earth. Rise in the presence of the aged, show respect for the elderly. Take care of the elderly especially caring for those in your own family.

- Do not kill. He who hates his brother is a murderer. Do not have rage or anger. Do not endanger anyone’s life. Dogood to those who offend you.

- Do not commit adultery. Do not commit fornication. He who lusts after another has already committed adultery in his heart. Neither the sexually immoral, adulterers, or homosexuals, will inherit the Kingdom of God. Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman, that is detestable to God. Do not have incest or marry certain relatives as listed in Lev. 20. Do not have sexual relations with animals. Do not rape. God detests those who dress to look like the other sex. The Christian husband is to love and treat his Christian wife as Christ loves and treats His church. The husband must be willing to give his life for his wife, always putting her and his children’s welfare above his own. The Christian wife is to love and submit to her Christian husband in all Godly endeavors. She is to dress modestly showing her inward gentleness and beauty, not outward vanity of sexuality, clothes, makeup, or jewelry.

- Do not steal. Do not defraud or rob your neighbor. Do not use dishonest standards when measuring length, weight or quantity. Theft, deceit, swindling, and greed are evil. Steal no more but work to give to the needy.

-We should gladly do to the best of our ability the job our Lord has given us. Give to him that asks of you and from him that would borrow from you turn not away. Help others as we would like to be helped.

- Do not bear false witness against they neighbor. Slander is evil. Do not pervert justice, do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly. Speak not evil of one of another. Do not have bitterness or malice. If there is a dispute go and discuss the matter between you and the person alone, then bring in others to rectify the situation. Be kind and compassionate.

- Do not desire your neighbor’s wife, nor covet any of his possessions. The world causes man to envy intensely. Having food and shelter be content with what you have.

- Forgive others as Christ forgives us. For if we do not forgive others Christ will not forgive our sins. Do not seek revenge, for revenge is for the Lord, not man. Do not bear a grudge against your neighbor.

- The evils of drunkenness, crude talk, arrogance, pride, and foolishness keep a man from the Kingdom of God. God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.

- Do not practice sorcery, nor turn to mediums or spiritualists for you will be defiled by them. Do not cut nor tattoo your body.

- Give to the poor and needy. Do not take advantage of your hired laborer, pay them their wages when they need them to live on.

- Obey government laws as long as they don’t conflict with God’s laws

If we commit any sin we have committed them all. Any sin (disobedience) keeps us from God, no matter what the sin is. There is only one cure for our sins. We must believe in Jesus Christ, acknowledge our sins, sincerely repent of them and trust in our Lord’s grace to forgive them. Puff, they are gone forever.

http://www.abidewithchrist.org/w5.html

0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  2  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2014 06:34 pm
I don't deny God because I do not know, but I do deny that the Bible and Koran are 100% God inspired...
RexRed
 
  2  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2014 09:16 pm
@RexRed,
RexRed wrote:

I don't deny God because I do not know, but I do deny that the Bible and Koran are 100% God inspired...


I might also add that there is the distinct possibility that the Bible and Koran are zero percent God inspired and merely the babbling of deluded so called holy men and prophets...

2 Peter 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved [inspired] by the Holy Ghost.

Comment:
Considering the error contained within these "holy books" this is most certainly an untrue statement. The Holy Ghost (spirit) of the Bible is no more informed than mere conjecture and superstitious supposition.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2014 09:28 pm
@RexRed,
RexRed wrote:

RexRed wrote:

I don't deny God because I do not know, but I do deny that the Bible and Koran are 100% God inspired...


I might also add that there is the distinct possibility that the Bible and Koran are zero percent God inspired and merely the babbling of deluded so called holy men and prophets...

2 Peter 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved [inspired] by the Holy Ghost.

Comment:
Considering the error contained within these "holy books" this is most certainly an untrue statement. The Holy Ghost (spirit) of the Bible is no more informed than mere conjecture and superstitious supposition.


I agree completely. I really think all religious ideas come as a byproduct to self awareness. As soon as you start to make distinctions between your self and other the problem arises and it is a huge problem. We have attempted to solve the problem by creating supernatural explanations. They seem to solve the problem but as we get more clever and wise these old explanations don't work. They don't match reality. But we have some who are not willing to accept that fact.

But I am preaching to the choir again..
anonymously99
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2014 09:31 pm
@Krumple,
God and Jesus Christ are very real. They love us all.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2014 09:34 pm
@anonymously99,
anonymously99 wrote:

God and Jesus Christ are very real. They love us all.


Prove that they are.. if you can't then it is no different than saying Thor and Zeus are real. Do you believe in Ra? My guess is you would say no. So prove that they are real otherwise I have absolutely no good reason to believe you.
anonymously99
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2014 09:36 pm
@Krumple,
The bible should suffice.

I'm not sure what ra is.
anonymously99
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2014 09:38 pm
@anonymously99,
God and Jesus Christ are my masters.
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2014 09:43 pm
@anonymously99,
anonymously99 wrote:

The bible should suffice.

I'm not sure what ra is.


The bible proves nothing. I see you are a proponent of circular reasoning.

..the bible proves god and god proves the bible so the bible proves god..

The bible proves nothing.. well other than bronze age people pretending to think they know what is going on.

0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Mar, 2014 09:44 pm
@anonymously99,
anonymously99 wrote:

The bible should suffice.

I'm not sure what ra is.


Ra is the Egyptian sun god. He was worshiped long before christianity came along and christians plagiarized his back story.
0 Replies
 
 

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