Does God Exist?

First of all, I don't believe all that crap.
But, according to the bible everyone who is born, is born in sin.

It seems you even haven't looked at the link I gave about "Born in sin"

anyway, if you don't get the pic so be it. Others will!

Maybe they were like you, Romeo. Not interested in no longer digging...but instead, intent on getting as deep as possible.

They were duped. Any god willing to treat what they did as "sin" doesn't deserve anything but scorn.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say mate, and for two pins I'd think you were either an oldtime fundy preacherman or a modern day cultist, the way you try to overcomplicate things..
Ordinary people have no trouble understanding Jesus-
"The common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12:37)
Paul's rooting for you-
"I'm worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Cor 11:3)

All I am doing, Romeo...is replying to your posts.

Unfortunately, that almost requires getting into silly nonsense, because that is what you post, for some reason.

So keep digging.

John 3…17"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19"This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.…

The bible trumps all outside links

Sorry

explain!

You made an assertion that we were created with original sin. Some refer to the sin in Genesis chapter 3 as "original sin"; but it should be obvious that humans existed for a time before that event. Any outside links to the contrary just don't fit the account.

Well, not really, That is what it said in the bible and I was referring to that.
I didn't say we were created in sin, I really think no one is born in sin.

Except our births are not God like. If you think how it was for God the father to just come to be, that's how it should be for us all, no nasty vaginal birth, curse.

I often post bible verses to back myself up, so please tell us (if you can) which bit of this you think is nonsense?-
Jesus said- "Love one another, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clothe the destitute, tend the sick, visit the prisoners, look after the poor" (Mark 12:30, John 13:34, Matt 25: 37-40)

See, you've set yourself up for another sucker punch mate, stick out yer chin..

With this rib, I grant you life. *That's a rib.

I was referring to the smarmy image you posted here:
http://able2know.org/topic/215845-131#post-5715920

Nothing of that particular Bible quote is nonsense, in my opinion.

Damn near everything you say in your posts outside of a few of the Bible quotes...is, at best, nonsense.

Some would have to be improved to reach the level of nonsense, Romeo.

Religious fundamentalism explained as I know it.

I was raised as a protestant in my youth, I really did not understand the unions or rather divisions between religions until I got older.

It all stems around the word "unity".

Ephesians 4:
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Comment:
This is why the major churches have what they refer to as "organic unions".

Ephesians 4:
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Comment:
These verses implore that churches and people should "keep" the unity.

Yet churches have not kept the unity but "made" unions.

I liken this to making love rather than keeping love.

You can't make love. Likewise you can't make unity.

Unity is the same word for harmony thus music can be an allegory to this idea. When there is no evidence there is no real way of gauging truth.

The question becomes why make unity, why not just keep unity as the Bible says? Why make these organic unions?

It all come down to the nature of the churches within these organic unions.

They all disagree on the most rudimentary approach to faith and practice.

At the center of this discord is the Bible.

Acts 2: 1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

Comment:
The Apostles were of one accord, (supposedly) they all 12 were in unity.

Psalms 133:1 Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!

Comment: What happened to this unity?

Well the message of Christianity was either lost or the Bible writers lied and there was no more unity in the first century church than there is today in the church.

Most evidence points to the Bible lying about this unity. We already know that the Gnostics had many different conflicting doctrines surrounding the Christian revelation in the first century. If this were not the case why were so many Gnostic books burned by Constantine? There were many Gospels, Epistles and commentaries that were destroyed and labeled as heresy. People were burned to death and martyrs sprung up all over the land.

The original revelation Jesus (if there actually was any) seemed all but lost.

What does the church do then, most of the world was illiterate anyway.

We see many blaring contradictions in new testament writings. Some call these contradictions "straw men", yet they are there none the less.

So Rome instituted the office of the supreme pontiff to oversee matters of faith. This Pope would have the final say over whether if some spiritual matter stayed in the faith or was labeled as heresy.

Everything went well for a number of years, if you consider torturing anyone who disagreed with the Pope as "going well".

There seemed to be unity in the church.

The Pope had three criterion with which he judged faith and practice.

They fell in this order of importance.

1. First were his own whims. Whatever he felt was faith and practice he instituted.

2. This was tradition. If it was a tradition to sprinkle water on people during baptism, then, even if there was no biblical basis for this, the tradition won out over the written revelation of the Bible. If there was the tradition of a 3 in one God. Even though there was no first century evidence of this trinity, the tradition won out over the Bible's lack of Trinitarian doctrine. And so on...

3 The third source of faith and practice was the Bible, last and also least.

This is why the Catholic church forbid people to read the Bible because it had little authority over the doctrines of the church.

Well along came the printing press and people started slowly learning to read.

Then along came Martin Luther and Henry the 8th.

Henry the 8th resented the authority of the Pope and so did Martin Luther. Martin Luther thought there should be no authority over the church other than tradition and the Bible.

Martin Luther still held traditions of the church in high esteem. Perhaps even higher than the written word. He felt that traditions and the Bible were a greater authority than any pope or king. Ironically it was Europe's Kings who saved him from the clutches of the Roman Pope and the Spanish inquisitions on a few occasions.

So what do we have so far?

We have the apostles (supposedly) dwelling in unity, though even this seems far from the case.

Before that we have the living Jesus who spoke to the people in person.

Though the actual living Jesus may be nothing more than a myth. We have no proof other than a bunch of people speaking gibberish in tongues. Then we have apostles squabbling over the details of the faith. Much like the rabbinic Jews squabble over the finer details of the law.

So did the Christian church ever have unity? That seems improbable.

But if it did that unity is long gone.

So our story continues.

So the Popes usurp this place of authority over doctrine and practice. Then the kings of Europe also usurp this power (the church of England) etc.

During this time, the illiteracy of the people left Rome and most of Europe in what is called the Dark ages.

Charlemagne, though I believe was illiterate himself, decreed that all people be taught to read and write.

This created not just one renaissance but many...

There were renaissances in art, literature, science/mathematics, philosophy, theater, and so on. Yet one renaissance remained shut off, this was the Bible. The Catholic church kept tight reigns on the pages thereof. They must have felt it would be there undoing. So it seems a fear was created around the Bible and curses were also employed.

None the less the Bible eventually was printed, perhaps out of spite for the most part.

Yet there was no real moment where one can say the Bible had its "renaissance". This may perhaps be due to great public relations systems created by the churches. The Bible still in large even today remained the property of the clergy.

Once it was printed it was in the hands of the common person but it was still thought that holy people were the only ones who could really interpret it.

Thus we see a divide between clergy and parishioner.

Then along came what we refer today as fundamentalism.

Fundamentalism slowly over time did away with a lot of "tradition" and popery.

Yet fundamentalism has still retained a huge amount of tradition that is not biblical in the least. They just can't do away with Santa Clause (hehe)...

Then there is a very strict form of non-denominationism.

They believe the Bible is the sole and only rule of faith and practice.

If you think your church is part of this last category, there is perhaps a 99% chance you are wrong.

Even though everyone carries their Bibles to church and they study them all day and try and push the Bible off on co-workers they are still part of the tradition first then the Bible second, class of believers.

The last category of "Bible first" is the religion I was trained in.

The Bible was their sole and only rule of faith and practice.

This path was disastrous!

In order to have unity in something it first has to be a cohesive thing in itself!

Once again unity was made and not kept. Will the world ever find unity in God? This I highly doubt.

Can we find unity among ourselves? Perhaps science, reason and a common cause of caring for our earth can supply this to us.

Forget about ALL of these holy books and charismatic religious imams, ministers, pastors, bishops, popes and rabbis! There is no more "unity of the spirit" in them than Life, Look, Time, The Saturday Evening Post and The Reader's Digest. These publications are all full of flaws and so are all of your "holy books"!

There is no perfect revelation.

You can pick and choose your faith and practice just as the Popes did but you may be right and you may be wrong. No one is infallible...

Surety of faith is the grandest illusion and sincerity is no guarantee for truth.

Rationale and evidence are a firm foundation for a good standing in life.

The unity of the spirit is the least unified body in the world...

RexRed

Good for you mate, keep it up and you'll make Archbish of Canterbury..
Just one thing though, those were GOD'S WORDS in that quote, spoken through the mouth of Jesus-
Jesus said - "For I have not spoken on my own authority; but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak" (John 12:49)

Yet earlier on you said God was a monster! Make up your mind huh?..

The god of the Bible is a monster. The god Jesus worshiped is a monster.

Stop with the quotes from Jesus. Here are two from the god itself:

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. [Deuteronomy 13:7-12]


Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." [Deuteronomy 13:13-19]



A monster!

Exactly, do you still not get it??????

You've said that 5,000 times so far mate, are you trying for the Guinness Book of Records?
When you were in Strategic Air Command during the Cold War years, you were quite prepared to nuke Russki cities full of fluffy kittens, so doesn't that make you as much a "monster" as God?
Looks like I've shot down your argument yet again..