Does God Exist?

Christian Right Weekly Round-Up: Hate Speech to Hymnsta Gangstas
http://www.forwardprogressives.com/christian-right-weekly-round-up-hate-speech-to-hymnsta-gangstas/

1 Reply

@RexRed,

Thanks for sharing interesting read.

1. Finally, from the Christian Examiner. “Rick Warren Returns to Pulpit after Son’s Suicide”

Seriously, this is probably the most important Christian Right news story in 2013.

I am not going to make any cracks about a man’s struggle to deal with the suicide of his beloved son. And I expect all readers to remain civil in their comments about this tragedy.

Earlier this year, Rick Warren, one of the most well-known Evangelical ministers and pastor of the mega-Saddleback Church in California, lost his son due to suicide “following a long struggle with mental illness.”

Here are some of the words delivered by Warren in his first sermon back following a 16-week leave of absence: “‘If you struggle with a broken brain, you should be no more ashamed than someone with a broken arm,’ Warren said. ‘It’s not a sin to take meds. It’s not a sin to get help. You don’t need to be ashamed.’”

If you grew up in an ultra-fundamentalist home as I did, you will understand the momentousness of this statement by Warren. In many Radical Right homes across our country, mental illness is often regarded as a matter of demonic possession. No, I am not kidding.

I sincerely hope that the personal suffering of the Warren family, and Pastor Warren’s subsequent call to recognize the medical nature of mental illness, will help propel the right-wing Christian fundamentalist segment of society toward civilization on this matter.

Our Sunday morning prayer: May Pastor Warren’s words result in a healthy dialogue between the Christian Right and the psychiatric community and lead to fewer suicides and mental illness-related tragedies (Sandy Hook) in our nation.

2 Replies

@reasoning logic,

In my opinion, as for Pastor Warren, it is too little too late... But, it is not too late to try and make amends even after so much self inflicted tragedy...

Even a snake deserves a second chance...

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@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

. . . If you grew up in an ultra-fundamentalist home as I did, you will understand the momentousness of this statement by Warren. In many Radical Right homes across our country, mental illness is often regarded as a matter of demonic possession. No, I am not kidding.

I believe what you say to be true in many cases.
Just not all.
In my own case, I have not seen it as a policy or practice, though some may hold to an error learned elsewhere.

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@neologist,

It is what Jesus taught, he cast out devil spirits remember? This is one of the reasons why I don't believe Jesus was any more "God inspired" than say, Howdy Doody...

Luke 4:33-36 - And in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, and cried out with a loud voice...

Comment:
Today, instead of mud and faith many blind people undergo cataract surgery... Neither mud or faith seems to work on blindness.

Jesus also healed a leper too... by casting out demons...

How to Cure Leprosy
http://www.wikihow.com/Cure-Leprosy

Today it is not so much people blaming the devil for sin, it is becoming more and more common that people are blaming God, Jesus and the Bible for their sins...

1 Reply

@RexRed,

Jesus neither performed surgery nor prescribed anti psychotics. Why am I not surprised?

I have no doubt that many case of extreme mental illness may have an attendant spirit. That they respond to modern therapeutic methods would not impeach what first century observers reported.

1 Reply

@neologist,

Quote:

I have no doubt that many case of extreme mental illness may have an attendant spirit.

Why would you not doubt this? Do you have some evidence of spirits existing?

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

I wrote:
I have no doubt that many case of extreme mental illness may have an attendant spirit.
Why would you not doubt this? Do you have some evidence of spirits existing?

Not with personal experience. So, why do I believe reports of others or accounts in the scriptures . . .?
Look around the world. Do you not wonder how the gassers of WWII Germany, the machete wielders of Rwanda, suicide bombers, or other murderers could operate without motivation from some demonic source?

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@neologist,

Quote:

Do you not wonder how the gassers of WWII Germany, the machete wielders of Rwanda, suicide bombers, or other murderers could operate without motivation from some demonic source?

I think it was environmentally inspired. I do not know all of their cases but the bombers seemed to have so much faith that they believed they were going to come out the other side of the towers into a paradise with possibly 72 virgins.

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@neologist,

Sounds like an excuse to shift the blame Neo...

Sometimes others are to blame, but spirits? Not very likely..

So do you get demon possessed Neo when you play the devil's advocate? Smile

1 Reply

@RexRed,

You understand I have made this point from the Bible many times.
You are a self proclaimed Bible expert.
Prove from the Bible that Satan is not the god of this world.

1 Reply

@neologist,

Quote:

Prove from the Bible that Satan is not the god of this world.

Why do you believe what the bible has to say about Satan?

Do you believe everything you read in the bible? How about killing disobedient children?

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

Why do you believe what the bible has to say about Satan?

Why not?

1 Reply

@neologist,

Quote:

Why do you believe what the bible has to say about Satan?

Why not?

Because it is a myth.

Ezekiel 26:21:

I will bring you to a horrible end and you will be no more. You will be sought, but you will never again be found, declares the Sovereign Lord

This is what the Lord says: "For three sins of Tyre, even for four, I will not turn back [my wrath]. Because she sold whole communities of captives to Edom, disregarding a treaty of brotherhood, I will send fire upon the walls of Tyre that will consume her fortresses."

Sounds like God wanted them slaves for himself really bad.

Quote:

In Ezekiel 26:21, the prophet said that the Phoenician city of Tyre would be brought to an end and would never again be found. When Alexander the Great destroyed the city in 332 BC, he brought an end to the Phoenician Empire. The Empire was never revived or "found" again. As for the city itself, it has been torn down and built upon by a succession of foreign powers. Today, finding artifacts from the original Phoenician Tyre is difficult. According to the Columbia Encyclopedia, Fifth Edition: "The principal ruins of the city today are those of buildings erected by the Crusaders. There are some Greco-Roman remains, but any left by the Phoenicians lie underneath the present town." - Copyright © George Konig, Ray Konig and 100Prophecies.org

Ezekiel 26:21:

I will bring you to a horrible end and you will be no more. You will be sought, but you will never again be found, declares the Sovereign Lord."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyre,_Lebanon

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@reasoning logic,

Yea it also seems a huge contradiction that God would use Alexander the Great, a gay pagan Macedonian to prophetically fulfill God's hatred of Tyre.

After Alexander conquered Tyre he pardoned the king and his family.

So apparently God does not mind homosexuals doing his bidding at the chance of a possible genocide.

Fortunately Alexander was not as barbaric as God and forwent the holy genocide God had in mind... The 30,000 residents and foreigners taken in the siege of Tyre were sold into slavery. (Where they took their religion and customs and spread them all over the globe...)

Alexander was simply a bigger fish doing exactly what Tyre had done... Taking captives through an act of war...

1 Reply

@RexRed,

Quote:

Fortunately Alexander was not as barbaric as God and forwent the holy genocide God had in mind... The 30,000 residents and foreigners taken in the siege of Tyre were sold into slavery

It may have been that Alexander new that a slave is more valuable than a dead man. Surly some would fight to their death "trying not to be slaves.
I read that Alexander was so enraged at the Tyrians' defense and the loss of his men that he destroyed half the city. The town's 30,000 residents were massacred or sold into slavery.

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@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

Because it is a myth.

You appear to have mythed the point. Still waiting for Rex to use the Bible to disprove my allegation about Satan.

Not that he or you would believe one thing or another. Just to show I didn't pull this out of thin air.

1 Reply

@neologist,

Quote:

Still waiting for Rex to use the Bible to disprove my allegation about Satan.

How do you prove or disprove a negative? By using scripture?

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:
Still waiting for Rex to use the Bible to disprove my allegation about Satan.

How do you prove or disprove a negative? By using scripture?

You need to work on formatting your posts.
If you are asking on what basis Rex might offer a proof:
Satan is mentioned in the Bible
All Rex has to do is expound on his reputed role.

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@neologist,

Quote:

If you are asking on what basis Rex might offer a proof:
Satan is mentioned in the Bible
All Rex has to do is expound on his reputed role.

Satan is a myth just like all the other myths that you call myths. If he is not, how much more evidence do you have for his existence than the other myths that you know of? Beliefs are not evidence.
It is like your asking Rex to prove something about petter pan as if it is important to our everyday lives.

1 Reply

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