Where is sozobe?

Yes on that.

I talked with Joanne too, had no clue.

yeh I do. I just have this gnawing feeling (not about Joanne) that I shoulda known and could have intervened.
My employees kids have grown up without a father and it woulda been neat to have him there at his kids HS graduation. The daughter was the class valedictorian and really gave a speech that shows her talents in writing and just communicating .
His son, a few years later, not so much. He is angry at his dad for leaving and I try to talk with him occasionally but Im getting a feeling that he blames me somewhat.

Joanned just appeared down in her various posts and PMs. (Not always though) sometimes she was , not manic, but full of almost disconnected ideas .

Joanne invited me to a2k. We had been getting good mileage from a thread on Abuzz, so when she made the move she extended the invitation. We were very friendly for a time, until her interests caused her to drift, but I feel we always had mutual respect. Her death caught me off guard, but, hell, every death takes me off guard. I would love to have met her.

It tends to take a lot of knowledge about suicide and intimacy with a person to pick such things up.....but you know that.

I know if I decided to kill myself nobody would be able to stop me. After 33 years doing what I do I know that I could easily miss the signs....or be unable to stop it even if I picked them up....because making an airtight safety plan or hospitalisation are no guarantees.

It's a horrible feeling, I know.

Sounds like you've remained in the kids' lives -- that's a valuable and admirable thing.

not so much. I think theres a lot of unanswered guilt and nothing eleemosinery (sp?) about it. I like the kids, don't get me wrong , but my keeping handy for them is more for me I think.
Wow, that's a breakthrough for me, and you guys don't charge 250 bucks an hour

fm - I have always found that if I do things for me it benefits others as long as the action is altruistic - is that the right word, I don't know, don't think so - anyway, the desired meaning is evident and I do find it true true....

They used to call it "Enlightened self interest".

true. There are certain things Im not really great at dealing with so I dwell on em for longer than necessary I suppose.

Rog, in many instances I wouldn't know whether it was enlightened self interest or guilt-response until much later.

"Enlightened" has a sense of pre-planned, I'll be damned if I plan anything, ha! One of my many foibles.....

Aint that the damn truth.