How is this definition of "belief"?

@igm,

igm wrote:

Yes... it's all a belief or a guess etc..

What is a belief or a guess?

You really are letting all this get to you, igm. Try to relax. Breathe deeply...and relax.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

All... everything... (Do I have to quote your post every time I respond in order for you to understand my post?)

Let's leave it there...

1 Reply

@igm,

igm wrote:

All... everything... (Do I have to quote your post every time I respond in order for you to understand my post?)

Let's leave it there...

If you want to leave it there...leave it there.

You are suggesting something about my reasoning...and I would prefer not to "leave it there."

I have never suggested that everything is a guess or a belief.

So what are you talking about?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

I have never suggested that everything is a guess or a belief.

I'm suggesting it... not you... keep up.. or let's leave it there...

1 Reply

@igm,

igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

I have never suggested that everything is a guess or a belief.

I'm suggesting it... not you... keep up.. or let's leave it there...

If you want to leave it there...leave it there. If you want to continue to discuss it...keep on posting and I will keep on responding.

I am lost as to what you are saying or suggesting...and I suspect you are just as lost.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

My last post was clear I am not going to repeat myself... I am leaving it there.

1 Reply

@igm,

igm wrote:

My last post was clear I am not going to repeat myself... I am leaving it there.

Good...leave it there...and I will not have to respond.

0 Replies

@Fil Albuquerque,

You wrote,

Quote:

This is totally out of context..we are addressing reality as a whole, therefore the example I was compelled to make refers to 1 mind as being all...its an example of reductio ad absurdum...do you get why ?

No, I don't get why. Why is it totally out of context? When you address human reality, it's about each human making subjective choices when we grow out of infancy. It doesn't matter whether there are limits to our reality. We are constrained by our biology and environment. That's called "nature."

Choices means subjective. It's not possible to predict what every human will do; that's because perceptions and choices change with the times.

Also, why have homo sapiens evolved from the great apes? Nature on this planet is not predictable when looked at in millions of human years.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

If that is so, why have homo sapiens evolved from the great apes?

They didn't!

Oh, before the "how do you know that" comes...it appears we had a common ancestor...rather than that we evolved from them. I 'm trusting the scientists on this.

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

Quote:

If human mind was the only reality IT STILL could not create itself...thus again that in itself means its independent of observation.

Here you assume that creation applies to reality. You assume that it must have started once upon a time.

Perhaps it did. Or perhaps beginnings and endings are only meaningful in the context of our subjective experiences.

Quote:

ALL being ALL it cannot outgrow expand or move itself...it is defined and as defined powerless to change itself A being A...All cannot change being All !

How do you know that?
How do you know that reality outside of human subjectivity conforms to your logic? What if it is completely irrational, and the rationality we perceive is supplied by us?

I agree that purely semantically, ALL can become more or less and still be ALL. But that does not imply that reality as a whole "is powerless to change itself". It doesn't reveal anything about the nature of this ALL.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Okay, so we evolved from a common ancestor. It's still the result of evolutionary change. What's your point?

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Okay, so we evolved from a common ancestor. It's still the result of evolutionary change. What's your point?

Read your question again...and you will see my point.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

It seams he does not get the clue that to test the hypothesis of a mind subjectively creating reality one calls for a reduction on which one needs to take the position to its extreme...nobody is saying we do not descend from a common ancestor to great apes...we set out to test an hypothesis on which if reality is intrinsically subjective then nothing can be ruled out of it as being illusory...in the extreme we would need to isolate mind and see what's left...we would still have an object without being able to create itself, mind alone...such reality per se would be objective...
Concerning my take on reality not moving I was hoping people would grasp I was including all space/time...the total object does not move...all degrees of freedom are historically fulfilled...in fact such object could not even think or act in any way...all action is inside it, not it.
It is it !
Anyway I leave as it is or otherwise I suspect they go from confused to totally lost...

3 Replies

@Fil Albuquerque,

I grasp what you mean, Fil. It's only that your meaning doesn't relate to reality. It relates to some figment of your imagination that you think is more real than imagination itself... Rolling Eyes

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

It seams he does not get the clue that to test the hypothesis of a mind subjectively creating reality one calls for a reduction on which one needs to take the position to its extreme...nobody is saying we do not descend from a common ancestor to great apes...we set out to test an hypothesis on which if reality is intrinsically subjective then nothing can be ruled out of it as being illusory...in the extreme we would need to isolate mind and see what's left...we would still have an object without being able to create itself, mind alone...such reality per se would be objective...
Concerning my take on reality not moving I was hoping people would grasp I was including all space/time...the total object does not move...all degrees of freedom are historically fulfilled...in fact such object could not even think or act in any way...all action is inside it, not it.
It is it !
Anyway I leave as it is or otherwise I suspect they go from confused to totally lost...

Glad you were kind enough not to stretch them out any further, Fil. They are getting desperate...no telling what they would be if "totally lost."

0 Replies

@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

I grasp what you mean, Fil. It's only that your meaning doesn't relate to reality. It relates to some figment of your imagination that you think is more real than imagination itself...

C'mon, Cyracuz. When you post something like that, you ought first to think of the words "pot", "kettle", and "black."

1 Reply

@Fil Albuquerque,

You wrote,

Quote:

to test the hypothesis of a mind subjectively creating reality

is proved by your insistence of your own subjective position on this subject.

It "IS" your reality. It's based on your own perceptions that are SUBJECTIVE.

That we are discussion this subject from many viewpoints PROVES subjectivity. It "IS" our reality.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Who says I didn't?
From my perspective, Fil has got everything almost exactly backwards. It's quite remarkable. It's almost as if we don't exist in the same reality. A fact which in itself goes a long way towards making my point.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

You wrote,
Quote:
to test the hypothesis of a mind subjectively creating reality
is proved by your insistence of your own subjective position on this subject.

It "IS" your reality. It's based on your own perceptions that are SUBJECTIVE.

That we are discussion this subject from many viewpoints PROVES subjectivity. It "IS" our reality.

You are not talking about REALITY, ci...and how could you possibly know that there is a "your" reality?

There MAY BE a different reality for everyone...but that would mean that objectively, the REALITY is that everyone has his/her own reality.

0 Replies

@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

Who says I didn't?

Possibly you did. It should have stopped you short.

Quote:

From my perspective, Fil has got everything almost exactly backwards. It's quite remarkable. It's almost as if we don't exist in the same reality. A fact which in itself goes a long way towards making my point.

Your point was not made by Fil...and he did not get things backwards. You did.

It is possible that you do not exist in the same reality. It is possible that we all exist in separate realities. It is also possible that there is but one REALITY...and nothing you or any other human does will impact on it.

All we can do is to guess one way or the other.

Whatever it is, thought...that is what it is. That objectively is what it is.

1 Reply

How is this definition of "belief"?

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