How is this definition of "belief"?

@igm,

We're not "reading too much into what you are saying." When you are consistent in what you say about "belief," that's what we go by. No one sentence,

Quote:

I see them for what they are... something that is useful for everyday life.

explains your position on "belief."

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@igm,

Quote:

ci and oli I said this...
Quote:
I am not trapped by beliefs... I see them for what they are... something that is useful for everyday life.

I am aware you said that. I said something slightly different, to the effect that everyday life is the only life I care for, and I expect my philosophy and beliefs to be relevant to that everyday life. I don't see philosophy and life as separate elements. But we don't need to agree. This place would be boring if everybody agreed with everybody else.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5: "I don't see philosophy and life as separate...."
Here here.

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@JLNobody,

Hear Hear

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

I don't think Olivier is patronizing at all! He gave an example that you seem to ignore for its meaning.

If you don't have belief, why are you discussing anything on a2k?

It's a contradiction in term and action.

You believe you don't have belief.

Nonsense!

I have no idea why someone thinks a person has to have "beliefs" (whatever the hell they are) in order to want to discuss things. One can have opinions...one can make estimates...one can observe and remark on what is happening without all the "believe" crap going on.

There is absolutely no "contradiction in terms and actions going on.

I am here right now without "beliefs"...and I am having an interesting time on A2K.

I do not have beliefs.

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@Frank Apisa,

Hear here! Wink

I'm curious, is it necessary to believe that you don't believe, for example, in god, or can you just cut to the chase and simply not believe? To the best of my memory, it has never occurred to me to believe that I don't believe in god (or have other beliefs about beliefs). Sounds like infinite regress to me. You'd have to have an infinite number of beliefs about beliefs about beliefs about beliefs, etc. I don't see how it is necessary, and it may not even be possible.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I am here right now without "beliefs"...and I am having an interesting time on A2K.

How do you know that for a fact, may I ask?

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
I am here right now without "beliefs"...and I am having an interesting time on A2K.

How do you know that for a fact, may I ask?

You certainly can ask...in fact, you just did.

If, however, you are going to ask how I know I exist...you are twisting the word "know" around to suit your purposes...and I am not interested in discussing that.

I know I am having an interesting time on A2K...and there is nothing that I am calling a "belief." I do have guesses...I do make estimates...and that sort of thing.

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@Olivier5,

Every belief can be replaced with a better more subtle belief; what does this say about those people who are satisfied with their beliefs?

Science is never satisfied with its beliefs so it follows that the best way forward is to remove beliefs and replace them with new more refined beliefs. Where does this logically lead? To a place where beliefs have been let go of... for most they won't realize this in this lifetime. It's a shame they believe in their life/existence followed by their death/non-existence and because there is little point in trying to refine beliefs because with this view, once a recipe for one individual life is found then belief becomes 'set in stone' or at least the attempt is made to change as little as possible.

The above has been amended slightly soon after it was posted.

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@Frank Apisa,

Actually, I meant: how do you know you don't have belief? Is that a guess, an opinion, or something you know for a fact?

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Actually, I meant: how do you know you don't have belief? Is that a guess, an opinion, or something you know for a fact?

Sorry.

I know for a fact that I have no beliefs.

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

Belief - a conceptual frame in which an individual arranges his perceptions.

Isn't that a better definition for a "paradigm?"

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@igm,

igm wrote:

I use some other's beliefs but I don't believe in them e.g. If I examine all the parts of a car I don't find a car or car-ness but I can drive the car... I don't however believe there is a truly existent car... there appears to be but when examined it cannot be found... all phenomena are like this. I can still live my life just as you do but I am not trapped by beliefs...

You state beliefs and then say you don't have any beliefs. That's either ironic or hypocritical. You tell me.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I know for a fact that I have no beliefs.

How do you know that for a fact, then?

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@joefromchicago,

Neither... please explain how it must be one or the other? You will have to 'spell out' your accusation.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
I know for a fact that I have no beliefs.

How do you know that for a fact, then?

If I have to explain that to you...you will not understand it.

If you think I have any beliefs...why not name three...and I will discuss them. Then you can name three more...and we will discuss them. And so on.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
I know for a fact that I have no beliefs.

How do you know that for a fact, then?

I’ve gotta leave to take my two elderly aunts food shopping right now. This is one of the most arduous tasks I deal with…and although I could easily do the shopping in 15 minutes if they gave me a list (which they have for themselves)…it will take them the better part of three hours.

When I get back we’ll discuss this more.

It occurs to me that you ought consider this:

If I were to say: There are no birch trees in my backyard, would you actually ask me how I know that for a fact?

If I were to say: I have no tattoos on either of my arms, would you actually ask me how I know that for a fact?

If I were to say: I have no IRA’s, would you actually ask me how I know that for a fact?

If I were to say: I have no bananas in any of the shoes I am wearing, would you actually ask me how I know that for a fact?

Just something to consider while I am shopping with the aunts.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

If I have to explain that to you...you will not understand it.

Or maybe I will debunk it... and we don't want that, right? :-)

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If you think I have any beliefs...why not name three...and I will discuss them. Then you can name three more...and we will discuss them. And so on.

You already said you don't want to talk about whether you believe the world to exist, or why you 'know' you don't have beliefs. So if I were to do what you suggest, you will probably evade that discussion too.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

If I were to say: I have no bananas in any of the shoes I am wearing, would you actually ask me how I know that for a fact?

Just something to consider while I am shopping with the aunts.

Don't forget to buy bananas.

If you read this before you head off, maybe you can ponder this question: is your mind or mental space or self or whatever you call it, like a pair of shoes, or a room, or a backyard? Isn't it more like a landscape, only partially explored, and partially covered in fog?

In other words, can you explore your own mental self just as easily as you can explore your tatoos?

1 Reply

@igm,

igm wrote:

Neither... please explain how it must be one or the other? You will have to 'spell out' your accusation.

What's to explain? You state beliefs and then you say you have no beliefs. What would you call that?

1 Reply

How is this definition of "belief"?

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