How is this definition of "belief"?

For instance, consider the selfish-gene theory in evolution, homo oeconomicus in economics, and the legal fiction that corporations are persons. These are all conceptual frames; millions of reasonable, intelligent people use them every day. But only a negligible number among these people would say they actually believe in them.

Olivier: Can you prove that logic works?

Frank: Are you actually saying that you think an assertion must be proved in order to be an assertion??? Are you actually suggesting that a thing must be true...in order for someone to assert it?

Quote:

Olivier: Can you prove that logic works?

Frank: Are you actually saying that you think an assertion must be proved in order to be an assertion??? Are you actually suggesting that a thing must be true...in order for someone to assert it?

Stop the semantic charade, would you? You wanted a list of beliefs that can be useful in life, and I gave you a number of beliefs I find useful.

I think logic works, but cannot prove it since that would require the use of logic... Hence I choose to assert, believe, think, guess, assume, opine, venture to say, posit or hypothetise that logic works, without any proof whatsoever. Now, since this is a big picture, framework level assumption, I call this assumption a belief. It's not just some stuff I imagine migh be true, it's something I deeply and sincerely believe in. I could NOT DO WITHOUT this assumption in my life.

Some people don't think much of logic and I am fine with that. Do you believe in logic, Frank? :-)

Who doesn't believe in economics? It's how most people "make a living" in developed countries. Without it, the majority would have no luxuries, commercially built homes, cars, refrigerators, ovens, utensils to eat with, and grocery stores to buy your food in.

Of coarse, we know of some people who don't have belief, and they use guesses and such to go about their daily business.

cicerone imposter wrote:

Who doesn't believe in economics? It's how most people "make a living" in developed countries. Without it, the majority would have no luxuries, commercially built homes, cars, refrigerators, ovens, utensils to eat with, and grocery stores to buy your food in.

Of coarse, we know of some people who don't have belief, and they use guesses and such to go about their daily business.

If I said I had a reasonable amount of 'confidence' in economics (Western) with some reservations and a hope that the worst mistakes of recent times would not be repeated unless unavoidable... would that be a belief? Certainly the word 'belief' hasn't been used and I can say 'I feel confident' but if I say 'I feel it is believable' that doesn't sound correct to me.

Olivier... you seem to be missing the point of Frank's argument as I see it. Frank is entitled to say that 'he doesn't do belief' and you 'should' respect that. That is all Frank is asking. You aren't respecting Frank's position but he has every right to hold that position... all you have to do is accept his position... nothing more... it's very simple. You keep your worldview and Frank keeps his. You run into all these problems with Frank because you are trying to tell him that he can't when obviously he can say 'I don't do belief'.

Olivier... you seem to be missing the point of Frank's argument as I see it. Frank is entitled to say that 'he doesn't do belief' and you 'should' respect that. That is all Frank is asking. You aren't respecting Frank's position but he has every right to hold that position... all you have to do is accept his position... nothing more... it's very simple. You keep your worldview and Frank keeps his. You run into all these problems with Frank because you are trying to tell him that he can't when obviously he can say 'I don't do belief'.

You are trying to establish that I have beliefs (for whatever reasons your psyche needs to do so) by essentially saying that assertions and guesses...ARE BELIEFS.

I disagree with you on this one igm...not in the sense that Frank shouldn't be allowed to express whatever he wants or believes in, but in the sense that Frank if playing by rational arguments must abide by rational principles and be confronted about the semantic distinction he is trying to make once most of us can't see what is his point if any...actually Olivier made a very good counter, not that I was expecting Frank to intend to address it...

Good on you Fil. If we lived according to Frank's definition of belief, we wouldn't be able to communicate with most people.

Saying "I have no belief" is saying, whatever he says can't be trusted or confirmed, because they are all guesses.

They're getting too philosophical for their own good!

Most people understand the definition of "belief." It needs no further explanation for communication.