How is this definition of "belief"?

@Olivier5,

Are you male or female, Olivier?

How old are you?

What kind of work do you do...or are you retired?

Are you an honest person?

In your "belief system"...are there any gods?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Olivier: 1. This world exists. Deal with it.

Frank: That is a "belief?" I thought you have been asserting it is not.

O: what part of 'I believe the universe exists' don't you understand?

------

O: 2. Logic works.

F: That is a belief? C'mon.

O: how else would you call it? A guess?

---------

O: 3. The scientific method is the best known way to understand the world.

F: That is a belief?

Next you will put down "onions"...and declare that to be a belief also.

O: onions are part of the universe, and so is science, so they bothh assume #1 is true. A belief in science being generally trustful in spite of being generally falsifiable is healthy. It's part of my value system, and it implies a trust in reason. A leap of faith that reason can help model the world.

----------

O: 4. Any onthological or theological discussion is ultimately futile.

F: That is just plain false.

O: nope. It's a consequence of the true essence of reality being beyond our reach. Same apply to most metaphysics.

------------

O: 5. Determinism is probably false.

F: How on Earth can you consider that valuable???

O: allows free will and justifies all our laws, via the concept of personal accountability.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

I'm male, French, 49 yrs old. Very honest but i don't want to talk about my job or self too much. No gods that I pray to or that I believe in, but they all exist in the cultures of men. What would be poetry without the muses? Asterix without Toutatis, Cesar without Venus? And Jerusalem without the wholy ghost doing mischiefs around the wall?

In short, I have a keen interest in religions as belief, moral and esthetic systems.

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

Quote:

Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5337981)
Olivier: 1. This world exists. Deal with it.

Frank: That is a "belief?" I thought you have been asserting it is not.

O: what part of 'I believe the universe exists' don't you understand?

What part of "This world exists, deal with it" contains the expression "I believe the universe exists?"

You are kidding here, right?
_____

Quote:

O: 2. Logic works.

F: That is a belief? C'mon.

O: how else would you call it? A guess?

I'd call it an assertion. I cannot fathom why any intelligent individual wouldn't.

________

Quote:

O: 3. The scientific method is the best known way to understand the world.

F: That is a belief?

Next you will put down "onions"...and declare that to be a belief also.

O: onions are part of the universe, and so is science, so they bothh assume #1 is true. A belief in science being generally trustful in spite of being generally falsifiable is healthy. It's part of my value system, and it implies a trust in reason. A leap of faith that reason can help model the world.

Are you just going to keep posting assertions...and then claim they are beliefs? Really wasting lots of time here, aren't we?
________

Quote:

O: 4. Any onthological or theological discussion is ultimately futile.

F: That is just plain false.

O: nope. It's a consequence of the true essence of reality being beyond our reach. Same apply to most metaphysics.

C'mon. The fact that something cannot be nailed down does not mean it is futile. Most science starts with hypotheses...and many times it seems the material trying to be found is beyond our abilities at this time. No reason philosophical musings cannot be considered that way. Are you actually saying that all the many philosophers in history were just wasting time?
_______

Quote:

O: 5. Determinism is probably false.

F: How on Earth can you consider that valuable???

O: allows free will and justifies all our laws, via the concept of personal accountability.

Yeah...and if it is true rather than false...it doesn't. Are you actually suggesting that you KNOW determinism is false?
____

So let's stop the "I can piss further than you can" nonsense and get at the crux of whatever the hell is bothering you about what I was saying when you entered this discussion.

Figure out what it was...tell me what it was...tell me why it is bothering you...and let's discuss it. I'm tired of pissing. At 76 I accept that the stream does not go as far as it does at under 50. That contest you win.

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

I have to disagree, though.

I'm sorry to hear that, because you are wrong.

Cyracuz wrote:

These frames you mention fit my definition precisely. If we cannot find any facts to confirm that what these people believe in is actually true,

But they don't believe them!They use them as useful frameworks for making sense of their observations and for deriving correct predictions. But even so, they don't actually believe it, and say so clearly. That was my entire point in the post you replied to. Go read it!

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I'd call it an assertion. I cannot fathom why any intelligent individual wouldn't.

Can you prove that logic works?

Quote:

So let's stop the "I can piss further than you can" nonsense and get at the crux of whatever the hell is bothering you about what I was saying when you entered this discussion

Nothing. I just tried to answer your questions... I hope it was clear enough.

And yes, I do believe this world/universe exists. Not kidding.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

. . . I do not have beliefs.

Just an aside, Frank: What is your understanding of the theory of evolution?

2 Replies

@neologist,

Do we really believe that Frank actually believes he has no beliefs? Rolling Eyes

2 Replies

@JLNobody,

Or maybe he just believes that he believes that he has no beliefs. Wink

1 Reply

@JLNobody,

JLNobody wrote:

Do we really believe that Frank actually believes he has no beliefs?

Well, I believe .. . er.. . I think . . . um . . .

Maybe Frank's mind contains only 2 categories: the things he knows - like where the golf course is - and the things of which he professes guesses. Anything else would be like my wife's purse - a black hole.

1 Reply

@FBM,

Yeah. What you said

0 Replies

@neologist,

At least he can guess and assume where he hit the ball. LOL

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

I believe Frank would shame me on the golf course.

2 Replies

@neologist,

Don't forget, though, that his score is a guess.

0 Replies

@neologist,

I believe I'll have a beer and think about it some more.

1 Reply

@FBM,

Where are you? I''ll bring over some IPA.

1 Reply

@neologist,

You are generous, indeed! South Korea Laughing

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
I'd call it an assertion. I cannot fathom why any intelligent individual wouldn't.

Can you prove that logic works?

Are you actually saying that you think an assertion must be proved in order to be an assertion??? Are you actually suggesting that a thing must be true...in order for someone to assert it?

There are people in this forum who assert there is a GOD who revealed ITSELF to the ancient Hebrews. There also are people in this forum who assert there are no gods.

You can tell those people that a burden of proof accrues to someone making an assertion...but the assertion can be made without a proof...and the assertion can be made even if it is a guess.

It most assuredly does not have to be a BELIEF.

Quote:

Quote:
So let's stop the "I can piss further than you can" nonsense and get at the crux of whatever the hell is bothering you about what I was saying when you entered this discussion

Nothing. I just tried to answer your questions... I hope it was clear enough.

And yes, I do believe this world/universe exists. Not kidding.

Okay...nothing is bothering you...so time to stop pissing.

And you are free to "believe" anything you want...just as I am free not to have "beliefs."

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
. . . I do not have beliefs.
Just an aside, Frank: What is your understanding of the theory of evolution?

I understand it is out there...and if there is a GOD who actually designed evolution...we are still trying to unravel the methods the GOD used. Otherwise...it appears to be the way nature (or the illusion of nature) works.

0 Replies

Gotta go to work on the golf course today...no play.

I am enjoying the banter, guys.

My game has been in a black hole this week...truly dismal!

That is not something I believe...it is something I know. (Goddam ball just won't go where I want it to go!)

1 Reply

How is this definition of "belief"?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know