How is this definition of "belief"?

The economical and simple theory of what is happening with the sun and the moon (whether in a reality or in an illusion) are completely worng...and the more complex explanation that comes from understanding the dynamics of the solar system is correct.

Quote:

O: Am I a giant blue carrot created an hour ago, now? Let me think...

Frank: Have fun with it. Much better to do what you are doing that actually face it...and deal with it.

My whole point is you or I can't actually deal with it. No one can do anything with such out-of-this-world speculations. Therefore they are all futile armchair philosophy.

What could I do differently if I was in some parallel universe, supposedly more 'real' than my immediate experience, a giant blue and amnesic carrot tied on a movie theatre seat by some GOD, perhaps incapable of producing the real thing and thus scripting a fake, virtual reality instead? Tell me how this hypothesis is helpful or fruitful in any way?

I choose to deal with the REAL world, with all its complexity rather than let my imagination run loose about what IF that REALITY was virtual... Call me naïve, but I for one can make a choice. It's perhaps what beliefs are about, about making choices.

Olivier is correct... there has to be a point to removing beliefs... there is ... a happiness that appears as beliefs are let go of. Inate happiness is what is revealed and it is untouched by life's ups and downs.

Quote:

The economical and simple theory of what is happening with the sun and the moon (whether in a reality or in an illusion) are completely worng...and the more complex explanation that comes from understanding the dynamics of the solar system is correct.

Occam's razor works only for rival theories which are equally speculative or equally (un)supported by facts. If 'the economical and simple theory of what is happening with the sun and the moon' is that the earth is at the center of the system, immobile, and the sun and moon turn around it, then that theory cannot account for the existence of the trade winds. The balance of facts lean towards Copernic, so the razor is ill-used in this example.

Let's keep in mind that there are many kinds of "beliefs", working assumptions that get us through the day, e.g., that things are most likely to behave now, i.e.-- the immediate future--as they have in the past, and there are all those very common and tacit presumptions of a consensual worldview taught to us and shared by the members of our cultural community. Most of these are either never exposed to or rersistant to disconfirming evidence, as is the most frozen version of belief: religious DOGMA.

One theory: The sun rides in a chariot driven by Ra across the sky each day.

Second theory: The sun rides on the back of a turtle that walks across the sky each day.

Quote:

One theory: The sun rides in a chariot driven by Ra across the sky each day.

Second theory: The sun rides on the back of a turtle that walks across the sky each day.

They both assume invisible giant magic thingies moving the sun around, so occam's razor cannot make a call here either. It has limited use, i agree with that.

Let's keep in mind that there are many kinds of "beliefs" [...] Most of these are either never exposed to or rersistant to disconfirming evidence, as is the most frozen version of belief: religious DOGMA.

Oh, is that the coin with two heads?

Oh, is that the coin with two heads?

Quote:

Let's keep in mind that there are many kinds of "beliefs" [...] Most of these are either never exposed to or rersistant to disconfirming evidence, as is the most frozen version of belief: religious DOGMA.

The problem I have is with throwing the baby with the bathwater. That there are some identifiable 'bad beliefs' e.g. religious dogmas does not mean or imply that all beliefs are bad... That'd be a hasty generalization.

No problem with guessing...we all do it. I respectfully suggest that calling guesses (especially blind guesses such as are offered in the case of discussions of REALITY)...guesses rather than beliefs is more helpful in recognizing that the GUESSES are nothing more than GUESSES.

That is all I have been saying. If you want to talk about carrots...you'll have to do it with someone else. I love carrots, but I don't especially like talking about them.

Can you name three "beliefs" in a discussion about the true nature of REALITY...that are of value?

Quote:

No problem with guessing...we all do it. I respectfully suggest that calling guesses (especially blind guesses such as are offered in the case of discussions of REALITY)...guesses rather than beliefs is more helpful in recognizing that the GUESSES are nothing more than GUESSES.

That is all I have been saying. If you want to talk about carrots...you'll have to do it with someone else. I love carrots, but I don't especially like talking about them.

Carrots are just a caricature of futile philosophical musing about the true nature of reality, your style. Can you with authority deny that you are a giant blue carrot?

I agree that all beliefs are guesses, but they are special guesses.

Guesses about the nature of the world we live in, guesses about ourselves, not really the trivial questions like what color should I wear today. Beliefs (in my prefered sense of the word) are about existential questions. The big picture. The framework. The great unknown, etc.

Which is what you'd expect from dropping an important word from your lexicon.

Quote:

Can you name three "beliefs" in a discussion about the true nature of REALITY...that are of value?

1. This world exists. Deal with it.

2. Logic works.

3. The scientific method is the best known way to understand the world.

4. Any onthological or theological discussion is ultimately futile.

5. Determinism is probably false.

I could go on.