What would the World be like if JESUS had never been Born?

AU: Cloning? I don't think so.

The virgin birth of Jesus Christ is the result of divine and human contact, producing a baby that was perfect and free from genetic defects and, most importantly, SIN, which is Biblically viewed as being transmitted via the male chromosome structure or bloodline.

cicerone imposter
Cloning of course not. Was just commenting on the similarity of description.

BG: that last post really throws me off, Eve was tempted by the snake, Adam was tempted by Eve and they both discovered the knowledge of good and evil which appears to have been "sexual congress". Could it not be said that the "sin" was merely awarenes/consciousness? While i admit this story is filled with allegory/animism and latent images, it seems to be metaphoric at best. The same could be said about the "virgin birth".

dys: you said, "Could it not be said that the "sin" was merely awarenes/consciousness?"

Sin, by Biblical definition, is the transgression of God's laws or commandments.

Adam sinned when he partook of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which both he and Eve were forbidden by God not to do - their failure to comply with God's commandment, therefore, was the initiation of sin, and hence the rest of mankind has inherited that trait thanks to Adam.

The Greek- speaking author of Matthew, relying on the faulty translation of the Septuagint, rendered the Hebrew word almah (young woman) into Greek parthenos (virgin) when he wrote:

"Behold, a parthenos shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."

Dys: here's the actual scripture citations relating the story of God's commandment to Adam:

"Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

Bib, The message I get from that passage is that promulgation required Adam and Eve to "eat the fruit" as it were. If they failed, none of us would have life, and the question of 'saving' would be moot. c.i.

so in simple terms adam and eve became mortal as they would now know death, which i think is a definition of bisexual reproduction. the original sin by that very definition means that adam and eve became human by eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Dyslexia - are you positing that these myths of creation and becoming human are harking back to some sort of cellular memory of moving from asexual reproduction (in which a cell is, for practical purposes, genetically immortal) to sexual and/or to the moment - not that I think there was a single moment - of becoming conscious of self?

Why would Adam and Eve have sexual organs to reproduce in the first place? c.i.

dlowan: i actually had not been thinking in those terms but in a metaphorical sense yes, in reading those passages in the bible it seems that the event described could be viewed as man's recognition of his own mortality. if we are to take literally the concept of "original sin" then what we are visualizing is "sexual reproduction is the cause of death/mortality".for adam/eve to become "human" they had to face their immortality, which leads to the need to have jesus be of "virgin birth" escaping the need to die. it amounts to a tautology of unresolved paradox. to live is to die, ergo to sin is to live. (sin being the "original sin")

Go figure!

None of this matters to me, but just a couple points to add here for those who take the story of the Garden of Eden from the Bible literally:
- The first thing God told Adam & Eve (yes they were still in the Garden at the time) was to have sex.

- Since the Bible doesn't mention the births of women, it's even possible that Adam & Eve had already given birth to one or more daughters before they ate the forbidden fruit (there's no mention of how long they were in Eden's garden). If a daughter had been born before they left it would've been less of an ordeal for Eve, as pain in childbirth was a part of the curse on women due to Eve disobeying God. (Gen.3:16)

Go figure!



[size=28] MERRYCHRISTMAS[/size] everyone!!!


Edit: 2nd point edited for clarity.
Edit2: Removed the 1st part of the 2nd point, as it was neither correct nor relevant.

Aha! God knew Adam and Eve was going to sin, that death was inevitable before that sin, so where's the "free will?" c.i.

CI, while what you're saying is a good point, and even the Bible says God doesn't allow some people free will & that they were predestinated to heaven or hell (Jude 1:4, Rom. 8:29-30), what I was trying to bring out is that it's illogical when Christians claim the Bible says sex was the original sin, considering God's first instruction.


EDIT: Corrected reference from Jude 1:5 to 1:4.

hmmmmmm -

- The first thing God told Adam & Eve (yes they were still in the Garden at the time) was to have sex.[/color]


don't have a bible in front of me for reference, but the "replenish the earth" is interesting. one needs to have something before hand to "replenish" right?

The part I was using as reference was the "be fruitful & multiply" bit. About "replenish," well, not necessarily...

American Heritage says
1. To fill or make complete again; add a new stock or supply to.
2. To inspire or nourish.

I think the verse is using the 2nd definition there.

Monger: you said, "Since the Bible doesn't mention the births of women, it's even possible that Adam & Eve had already given birth to one or more daughters before they ate the forbidden fruit."

Haven't you read Genesis chapter 5? which states the following:

Genesis 5:4, "And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:"

I see you've all been busy here this morning while I was away.

Happy Christmas everyone.