What would the World be like if JESUS had never been Born?

Bib- Well, the original definitions certainly give us an insight into the mindset of the people of the time when the dictionaries were written. It also explains the predisposition of some Christian groups to send out missionaries to proselytize the "savages".

I am not so sure that people have evolved beyond that mindset, and that is what troubles me!

I agree, Phoenix.

My earlier question was:

Would the World be any different if the birth of Christ wasn't celebrated in December?

It's interesting to note how the connection between 25 December and 21 December (Winter Solstice) have been intermingled.
Also, some have made reference to Mithraism and suggested that Christianity has "hi-jacked" this belief-system.

Any comments on these points?

Here's a bit of background information on MITHRAISM:

A pagan religion consisting mainly of the cult of the ancient Indo-Iranian Sun-god Mithra. It entered Europe from Asia Minor after Alexander's conquest, spread rapidly over the whole Roman Empire at the beginning of our era, reached its zenith during the third century, and vanished under the repressive regulations of Theodosius at the end of the fourth century. Of late the researches of Cumont have brought it into prominence mainly because of its supposed similarity to Christianity.

I think Christianity did not spring whole and with no precedent in the year 20 AD (or whenever Jesus was of age to start spreading the word.) I think it blended many existing traditions as a matter of practicality, getting the "heathens" on board, so to speak. You like your solstice celebrations? Fear not, you can keep 'em. Just, they're about the birth of Christ, now. You can keep up with the evergreen trees and candles and all of that, though.

sozobe: you said, "You like your solstice celebrations? Fear not, you can keep 'em. Just, they're about the birth of Christ, now. You can keep up with the evergreen trees and candles and all of that, though."

What are you alluding to here? I'm not understanding your point.

I mean that the people who were being converted to Christianity had their own religion and their own traditions. I think it would be easier to convert them to Christianity if there were things they could keep, celebrations they could continue, with a different slant. Solstice celebrations are an example.

Sozobe: when did I say that I "love solstice celebrations?"

I've merely been asking questions about them in order to share and learn new information with others.

the essenes believed by many scholars to have been a major influence on jesus:There is evidence of Persian and Hellenistic influences in the sect's thought. The Essenes' belief in several Messiahs is thought to have been a major influence in the development of Christianity. The sect ceased to exist sometime in the 2d cent. A.D.

Hmm, I guess I should have used quotation marks. This:



Referred to what the people trying to gain converts would have said to the "heathens".

Sozobe: now I understand what you mean. That's a good point, and well made.

Such was the INFLUENCE of all dominant powers in their day, don't you think?

Dyslexia: I believe your quote about the Essenes is from Encyclopedia.com.

It is important to note, however, that there are many scholars who have hinted and suggested various sects or religious orders as having been a direct influence on Christianity. The Essenes are one such suggested influence.

I didn't know this until my visit to India last year, but Buddhism was founded on the same ideas as Jainism. I think there are other religions with similar roots, and christianity is one of the best known. c.i.

Bib says:



Bill says:



The soltice can occur as late as the 22nd. The 23rd is a little longer, asy hmmm are we okay! On the 24th it is longer still we has a "successful passing", we say yes, we are saved tomorrow we feast!

Bill: you said, "The soltice can occur as late as the 22nd. The 23rd is a little longer, asy hmmm are we okay! On the 24th it is longer still we has a "successful passing", we say yes, we are saved tomorrow we feast!"

I'm not understanding what it is you are trying to say. Can you please elaborate?

CI: true Christianity is based on the teachings, life and works of Jesus Christ.

It is a fact of history, of course, that Christianity has been refashioned by the "powers" and "influences" of the day. In fact, those "influences" are still occurring today.

Maybe you guys can dig up more ob this:

December 25th was the date of Saturnalia, a celebration in honor of the Roman god, Saturn, which day coincided with the winter solstice. To ancient pagan civilizations this was the birthday of the gods -- the time of year when the days began to lengthen and man was blessed with a regeneration of nature.

"December 25th was indicated on the old Roman Calendar as Dies Natalis Invicti Solis -- the Day of the Birth of the Unconquered Sun. The Roman church adopted that date as the birthday of Christ, blending their culture's pagan traditions with [so-called] Christianity as a way of 'converting' souls to Christ.

"Such celebrations were not peculiar to the Romans, however. The ancient Egyptians, perhaps the most advanced initiates into the mysteries of Babylon, had long before instituted festivals and even laws which commemorated the birth of the sun.

December 25th was the date of Saturnalia, a celebration in honor of the Roman god, Saturn, which day coincided with the winter solstice. To ancient pagan civilizations this was the birthday of the gods -- the time of year when the days began to lengthen and man was blessed with a regeneration of nature.

"December 25th was indicated on the old Roman Calendar as Dies Natalis Invicti Solis -- the Day of the Birth of the Unconquered Sun. The Roman church adopted that date as the birthday of Christ, blending their culture's pagan traditions with [so-called] Christianity as a way of 'converting' souls to Christ.

"Such celebrations were not peculiar to the Romans, however. The ancient Egyptians, perhaps the most advanced initiates into the mysteries of Babylon, had long before instituted festivals and even laws which commemorated the birth of the sun.

http://www.hhs.net/evangout/origins.htm

Welcome back Husker.

Thanks for the new data - it was interesting reading.

I recently had heard more detailed info but I cannot locate the source.

Husker: could you check the validity of the following URL you just posted:

http://www.hhs.net/evangout/origins.htm

I'm getting a 404 Error with it.