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100% Proof of Alien Life - Or Not. Y'all Bear With Me

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Apr, 2013 04:07 am
@Setanta,
faster than light is not excluded in GR. Allyou need to do is overcome the energy needs.Warp drives get around this by only changing SpaceTime immediately around the vehicle travelling at WArp. No problem.

Theres a whole Straightfaced discipline of exobiology out there interested in just what aliens look like based upon what they have to adapt to. When we see specific nucleotides in the spectra of far away stars, many f these exo guys speculate that life (intelligent life also) would be based upon similar chemicals (carbon based and amino acides) so they would just as easily be shaped like life we are familiar with. In the MEn in Black movies, they had enough artistic license to include lifefoms that were radially symmetric.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Apr, 2013 04:19 am
Silicon . . . that's where their imaginations fail them. Silicon has the same valence as carbon. If you meet a silicon-based alien life form, just call him (?) Sandy.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Apr, 2013 04:32 am
@Setanta,
lots of the exo guys talked about the mass of other amphoteric life forms besides carbon (silicon, phosphorus, Iron, Selenium,) but lean on carbon because it so readily and easily reacts covalently with other carbons in the presence of water.
I used to be a big fan of silicon from "Day of the Triffids" as there are several hundred of silicon based "gels" that react like soft tissues but these silicon chemicals require water to be at high temperatures(600 C).
we see lots of silicon compounds in spectra of star bodies also but since we dont know the "life chemistry of silicon" we dont know what to look for or note is important , whereas nucleotides and amino acids will catch our attention because we know alot about the organic chemistry of life on our planet.

I want to see this guys movie no matter what conclusion we reach here. Id like to see it with those two puppets from MST3000 sitting in the front row and goofing on it.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Apr, 2013 04:44 am
Another interesting find is the "arsenic-loving" bacterium of Mono Lake, California. Researchers are now disputing the claim that the organism had substituted arsenic for phosphorus, but it still does survive in an extremely phosphorus-poor environment.

Thin end of the wedge? Have space aliens (as opposed to undocumented aliens) seeded our planet with insidious life forms, willing to wait centuries for the take over? Film at 11:00 . . .
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Apr, 2013 05:08 am
@Setanta,
yeharsenic is another one of those amphoteric members of the periodic table(actually multivalent is more correct). Like selenium, it has several negatives going for it.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Apr, 2013 10:25 pm
No one would like to believe that Aliens are out there than me, but I have yet to see any evidence of same.

There has been quite a lot of speculation about life on earth being "seeded" by extra-terrestrials, but of course that remains nothing more than speculation. I did see, however, that there are some folks looking at human genes to find patterns that might represent a message from the "seeders."

This caused me to wonder, if aliens seeded the earth, what's with all the secrecy? Why not plant a clear and unambiguous sign: WE DID IT?

I can imagine a seeding alien race not wanting to set themselves up as Gods, and so hiding the WE DID IT message somewhere where only a very sophisticated human race might find it, but if someone claims to have found it and it is not unambiguous, I'm not going to buy it.

I just have a hard time believing that a starfaring race that can spread life around the galaxy is interested in Paul Is Dead type clues.

I find it unfathomable that ours is the only planet in our galaxy, let alone the universe where live has developed, but that of course is a possibility. Given a near infinite set of circumstances, anything is possible. Unfortunately, though, considering the unimaginable vastness of space, unless life and, more importantly intelligent life is rampant out there, it's more than possible and highly probable that life on earth will arise and end without ever being exposed to any of its cousins.

If we manage to survive and ourselves become a star-faring race, the chances of meeting up with our relations rises exponentially, but, of course, none of us will be around for the reunion.
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Apr, 2013 11:30 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I agree - what I find even more curious than alien secrecy is that we've never detected the outward signs of a technology that uses the electromagnetic spectrum to communicate. All that effort in SETI and nothing has showed yet.

I think that if there is in intelligent life (highly likely) out there it is way out there and far flung. Admittedly we've only been spewing broadcast energy out to space for under a century - that's probably a pretty small window in the greater scheme of things - and there's a chance that sort of leakage is only a small part of technological evolution so no-one's looking for ours and no-one else was/is at that stage at the right distance for us to detect it. Yet.

Our signals would be an 80-100 light year expanding bubble by now. Of course the reply might be winging towards us right now.

rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Apr, 2013 04:25 am
@hingehead,
I think something more profound than mere distance is preventing us from detecting the other intelligence which is probably out there, but I don't know what it is.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Apr, 2013 04:58 am
Life being far-flung would be the most likely explanation. What kind of meaningful conversation can one have when address and response require a generation or more? Someone here once pointed out that it may not be a good idea to announce one's presence, or that the experiences of other technological species in reaching that point would be that announcing one's presence might not be a good idea. (If all of the civilizations of one's past had been dictatorial and hegemonic, there might be an inherent cultural disinclination to announce one's presence.)

But really, if there are other technological civilizations out there, the most pertinent observation that i can think of is why would they bother? They'd really have no one to talk to (keeping in mind i already think the Fermi paradox is bullshit), and might not think it a good idea to announce their presence.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Apr, 2013 05:17 am
We tend to exterminate. I would expect aliens to also exterminate, or else beware of those who practice same. And in addition, the universe is large enough that the more evolved species might simply be unaware of Earth and even this area.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Apr, 2013 06:23 am
@edgarblythe,
I doubt that the "seeding" speculation has any merit because space travel, especially interstellar, is a huge HUGE spender of resources and energy. We are in a "suburb" of our own galaxy which would require about 50000 years travelling at light speed just to make the major radius.
The chemistry of carbon is unremarkeably similar of earth and on mars (we see evidence of nifty covalent bonding in everal of the salt compounds on Mars)

I think life develops in "local pockets" following universal rules of chemical bonding. Maybe DNA is not the means of bookkeeping on other local worlds, but some really long chain heavy weight compounds like paraffins or ordinary proteins could be the centroid of
these pockets of life.

Weve only been screwing with radio and spectral communications for about 120 years so thats 60 light years out and 60 back. IF theres anything in that radius that can communicate, wwe have another 10 years or more to wait justforthat "bubble of communication" .

rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Apr, 2013 08:39 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Weve only been screwing with radio and spectral communications for about 120 years so thats 60 light years out and 60 back. IF theres anything in that radius that can communicate, wwe have another 10 years or more to wait justforthat "bubble of communication" .
Given that we haven't detected any other Radio/ElectroMagnetic communication after decades of searching for it, I am ready to conclude that EM signals are not the chosen mechanism for interstellar communication (IF other life with technology even exists) and that something else is being used and that we are unaware of it (at the moment).

Perhaps there is some type of quantum tunneling going on. Perhaps Dark Energy itself is some form of massive communication infrastructure that we simply don't recognize due to some lack of specialized technology or understanding of physics.

As has been pointed out many times, "Radio" isn't an effective way to communicate over interstellar distances. The only reason we use it at all is simply because we don't have anything better (yet).
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Apr, 2013 08:58 am
@rosborne979,
Someone (Carl Sagan?) once pointed out that microwave communications pass over Papua-New Guinea each day, and the inhabitants are blissfully unaware of it, which is the point of there being forms of communications of which we are unaware. Precisely because radio is such an inefficient means of communication, it occurs to me that if other technological civilizations exist and have any reason to attempt to communicate over interstellar distances, they may be using some sort of focused beam form of communications, perhaps light, which we would not be able to detect because we're not in the path of the signal.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Apr, 2013 09:27 am
@Setanta,
remember that all radiation declines in intensity as the inverse of distance squared


(Intensity =1/ distance^2).
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Apr, 2013 04:10 pm
The mummified remains of what looks like a 6-inch space alien has turned "Sirius" into the most eagerly awaited documentary among UFO enthusiasts.

The findings, however, might come as a disappointment.

In early publicity, filmmakers claimed the documentary would reveal that the DNA of the creature with an oversized alien-looking head couldn't be medically classified.

In fact, the film, which premiered Monday in Hollywood, features a scientist who concluded the little humanoid was human.

"I can say with absolute certainty that it is not a monkey. It is human -- closer to human than chimpanzees. It lived to the age of six to eight. Obviously, it was breathing, it was eating, it was metabolizing. It calls into question how big the thing might have been when it was born,"said Garry Nolan, director of stem cell biology at Stanford University's School of Medicine in California.

"The DNA tells the story and we have the computational techniques that allows us to determine, in very short order, whether, in fact, this is human," Nolan, who performed the DNA tests, explains in the film.

"Sirius" focuses on the remains of the small humanoid, nicknamed Ata, that was discovered in Chile's Atacama Desert 10 years ago and has, literally, gone through different hands and ownership since then.
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1099811/thumbs/r-ATAHUMANOID-large570.jpg?13
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Apr, 2013 04:16 pm
@rosborne979,
Really?

Like what, some heretofore unknown universal law that intelligent races must not meet?

God?

The most simple explanation, and therefore the most likely, is the unimaginable vastness of space.

Intelligent races could fly around the universe for a billion years and never come close to one another.

Dump one indestructible marble in the Atlantic and another in the Pacific. What are the chances the two will come within 100 miles of one another?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Apr, 2013 04:24 pm
@edgarblythe,
We tend to exterminate?

And this would scare them off?

Any extra-terrestrial race that can visit us is far more likely to be equipped to exterminate us than the reverse.

In any case, the minute ET make itself known to us, the liberals will be lining up to demand we respect them as the means to ultimate diversity...even as they put the planet in the cross-hairs of their Super Destructo Death Ray.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Apr, 2013 04:27 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
WE might recruit the aliens to enslave and murder all right wingers. Heh heh heh. Good idea, finn.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Apr, 2013 04:31 pm
@farmerman,
I do too but it's cools to contemplate. The best scene in the latest installment of the Alien Saga (Prometheus) is the opening one.

The thing is that while the near or actual infinite nature of the Universe would clearly seem to be a limiting factor, it does allow for the possibility of almost anything.

While I'm on the subject of Prometheus, I really appreciated the writer's take that the seeders might not give a flying f*ck about what grew.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Apr, 2013 04:36 pm
@edgarblythe,
Because they would surely spare the left-wingers from the yoke, having found fellow enlightened on a rock in the planetary system of our sun.

It would be Obama's chance to be a galactic Anointed One.
 

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