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US House of Representatives Hearings on UFOs

 
 
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2024 02:33 am
This is some pretty unusual stuff that's hard to believe but coming from people who don't seem to be kooks. In a hearing of the US House of Representatives Oversight Subcommittee on National Security, the Border, and Foreign Affairs on July 26, 2023, there had been this exchange with witness David Grusch, former National Reconnaissance Officer Representative, Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Task Force, Department of Defense:

Rep. Nancy Mace: "If you believe we have crashed craft, as stated earlier, do we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted this craft?"

David Grusch: "As I have stated publicly already in my News Nation interview, biologics came with some of these recoveries. Yes. "

Rep. Nancy Mace: "Were they, I guess, human or nonhuman biologics?"

David Grusch: "Nonhuman, and that was the assessment of people with direct knowledge on the program I talked to that are currently still on the program."


On November 13 of this year there was another House of Representatives hearing on UFOs, now officially called UAPs. The committee was the House Committee on Oversight and Accountability.

The witnesses were:

Dr. Tim Gallaudet
Rear Admiral, U.S. Navy (RET.)
Chief Executive Officer, Ocean STL Consulting, LLC

Mr. Luis Elizondo
Former director of the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP)

Mr. Michael Gold
Former National Aeronautics and Space Administration Associate Administrator

Mr. Michael Shellenberger
Professor at the University of Austin, serving as CBR Chair of Politics, Censorship, and Free Speech

In this later House hearing, asked whether the US government had conducted secret UAP crash retrieval programs “designed to identify and reverse-engineer alien craft,” Elizondo answered a definitive “yes.”

He added he was aware of discussions within the Pentagon that alien bodies had been recovered “before I was even born.”


I don't know what to make of this. This stuff is pretty hard to believe. Any opinions?
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Type: Question • Score: 10 • Views: 764 • Replies: 49

 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2024 06:02 am
@Brandon9000,
I would have to have a lot more evidence than witness testimony for a claim like this to be credible. People seem to want to believe that "there's something out there". That there's a market for these kinds of stories increases my suspicion. Some researchers have been known to make mistakes and some researchers have been known to lie. I remain a skeptic.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  4  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2024 07:54 am
I don't doubt there is life out there somewhere. But I'm a skeptic about them visiting here.
Region Philbis
 
  4  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2024 09:14 am
@edgarblythe,

agreed...

0 Replies
 
steve reid
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2024 12:44 pm
I think it comes down to $

The powers that be in any company or department especially secret defence departments will strive to secure maximum funding. The narrative they deem will procure maximum funding will be the one they promote

A statement implying we've recovered remains of aliens and/or craft will attact $billions, the opposite statement will get peanuts
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2024 02:37 pm
@steve reid,
You honestly think that numerous people connected to the military at very high levels, and many retired, and a former NASA administrator, would have a conspiracy and all tell the exact same bald faced lie? I only gave a tiny sample of the testimony. There's much more.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2024 04:48 pm
@Brandon9000,
Those are good points
0 Replies
 
steve reid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Dec, 2024 11:20 pm
@Brandon9000,
I'll remain sceptical until concrete evidence is presented

Going on what you posted

Brandon9000 wrote:

Rep. Nancy Mace: "If you believe we have crashed craft, as stated earlier, do we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted this craft?"

David Grusch: "As I have stated publicly already in my News Nation interview, biologics came with some of these recoveries. Yes. "


David Grusch twists his answer to imply that bodies were recovered but refers to them as biologics not extraterrestrials

Over 99.9% of life on earth is nonhuman, contamination perhaps
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2024 04:21 am
Quote:
You honestly think that numerous people connected to the military at very high levels, and many retired, and a former NASA administrator, would have a conspiracy and all tell the exact same bald faced lie?

That's all it would take! Being a retired military person or a former NASA administrator doesn't confer instant credibility. Remember all the scientists and engineers who were similarly united in their belief that the WTC could not possibly have collapsed solely because of burning jet fuel? I'm not claiming that there is a conspiracy involving UAPs – I remain skeptically agnostic about the whole matter – but the existence of a conspiracy or a shared delusion is no more unlikely than the idea that intelligent extraterrestrial life forms, using technology we haven't identified, for purposes we can't understand, are making regular soirees through the atmosphere surrounding our planet.
Quote:
...biologics came with some of these recoveries.

Who verified this? Where is the research and evidence to back up this contention? How often has it been repeated by people who haven't seen evidence but are simply repeating what someone else said?
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2024 06:26 am
@hightor,
I think it more likely that a number of people from the very agencies concerned would be deceptive, or would tell a small lie, than that they would all tell the same absolute, huge lie. Even conspirators, unless they have mental problems, try not to tell huge, entirely fabricated lies to the authorities. I find it hard to believe that all of these government employees (an admiral, the head of the Defense Department agency looking at UFOs, a NASA administrator) would claim, for example, that there is an active program to reverse engineer alien technology, when nothing of the kind exists at all. I think that if there were a conspiracy, it would be unlikely to be so dramatic.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 Dec, 2024 07:49 am
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
...that there is an active program to reverse engineer alien technology...

But no one seems to have access to the research undertaken by this active program; none of the information has been shared. We simply have to take the word of people who may have their own reasons for spreading the story.

For instance, maybe we pick up stories about some new top-secret weapon under development, something with new technology never before seen. Obviously the military would resist discussing the subject in detail, but some people might begin to ask questions. A few people with knowledge of weapons development might be interviewed and make some remarks confirming the program which then get interpreted as revelatory disclosures. And people hungry for this information will begin to accept it without further evidence. Now, the unannounced program might fail behind the scenes, or might not exist at all. But for the people who believe the substance of the rumors and the words of "insiders" the absence of any official acknowledgement is seen as proof of a coverup. Whether or not the program ever existed at all.

Basically we're speculating about things of which we are ignorant. Speculating is fun and the ramifications of interstellar visitation by an inconceivably technically advanced alien intelligence is the kind of stuff I might have spent a whole night discussing in my dorm room. But the lack of scientific evidence – or even a well-researched account in a respected journal – substantiating the existence of an active program to reverse engineer alien technology makes it impossible to do much more than take a wait and see approach.

Quote:
I think that if there were a conspiracy, it would be unlikely to be so dramatic.

Interesting point, but not a confirmation of anything.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Dec, 2024 06:56 pm
@hightor,
My point is that the person talking isn't a little old lady who claims that a flying saucer landed in her garden. If a retired admiral, a former NASA administrator, and the former head of a defense department program are all cooperating on an absolute fabrication, that in itself is huge news.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Tue 10 Dec, 2024 07:10 pm
I'm afraid that until physical evidence is presented for the public to examine for themselves, most of us will remain skeptical.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Tue 10 Dec, 2024 08:08 pm
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
If a retired admiral, a former NASA administrator, and the former head of a defense department program are all cooperating on an absolute fabrication, that in itself is huge news.

And my point is that we don't know whether it's a fabrication or not because no facts have been established in a court of law or even convincingly presented by a scientific or investigatory journal . You're right; if all those guys are lying that would be a big story. And if they're not lying the implications would be huge news as well. Neither of those conclusions is available to us as the aerial phenomena remain unidentified and their material existence unproven.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  5  
Reply Wed 11 Dec, 2024 07:21 pm
I think it is more likely that there are some unexplained observations and many people are repeating the same hypotheses even if those hypothesis are not very likely. Weird, fleeting observations are pretty common in nature. I have two key thoughts about it. The first is that ascribing these things to alien life is a long reach. It's equivalent to saying something is magic, or a divine miracle. It's a cheap way to avoid coming up with more realistic hypotheses. The second is "who cares"? If it really is some sort of alien influence, they clearly don't want to bother us and they have the technology to span stars, so we are likely no more than a curious find. It really shows how dysfunctional Congress is if this is the only topic they can come together to discuss.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Dec, 2024 09:55 pm
@engineer,
How would "some unexplained observations" explain a former admiral, the former head of the program to investigate UFOs for the Defense Department, and a former NASA administrator saying that they have an active program to reverse engineer recovered alien equipment and they have alien bodies in their possession, all of which has been quoted earlier in this thread?
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Thu 12 Dec, 2024 08:55 am
(Brandon9000 prefers to debate one person at a time so I'll "reply all" in deference.)

Quote:
How would "some unexplained observations" explain a former admiral, the former head of the program to investigate UFOs for the Defense Department, and a former NASA administrator saying that they have an active program to reverse engineer recovered alien equipment and they have alien bodies in their possession...

I think the assumption here is that people who have achieved certain professional status are automatically assumed to be forthcoming and truthful. But they are human beings, like the rest of us – they can be misinformed, they can be affected by confirmation bias, they may be interested in settling personal scores, they may already be true believers rather than disinterested investigators. Looking into some of these figures I found a few pertinent issues:

1. David Grusch did not have access to the allegedly recovered "biological remains.
Quote:
Grusch went public last summer with the claims he had previously disclosed to the Intelligence Community Office of the Inspector General. He said that the Pentagon was operating a secret program dedicated to retrieving crashed UAPs and was in possession of nonhuman craft and biological remains of nonhuman beings. He also suggested white-collar crime was being committed to hide the program and even suggested people had been killed to protect the program.

As someone associated with the UAP Task Force, Grusch said he was denied access to the program. He based his claims on interviews with witnesses familiar with the program. Grusch also said he went to All-domain Anomaly Office Director Sean Kirkpatrick with the information but did not get a response. source


2. Michael Shellenberger, while not a climate change denier, is actively opposed to an environmentalist approach which recognizes planetary boundaries and the probability of "tipping points". Shellenberger embraces a purely technical response – industrial farming and nuclear power, for instance. This doesn't disqualify his opinions but it does suggest an ideological stance rather than a purely scientific one.

3. Luis Elizondo is a believer in extraterrestrial visitations and claims that the secretive Pentagon program looking into UAP is sitting on evidence of technology and biological remains of nonhuman origin discovered at crash sites. However,
Quote:
The Pentagon program currently working to address sightings of U.F.O.s — or U.A.P., for “unidentified anomalous phenomena,” as they are now called — “continues its review of the historical record of U.S. government U.A.P. programs,” said Sue Gough, a Department of Defense spokesperson.

To date, Gough added, the program “has not discovered any verifiable information to substantiate claims that any programs regarding the possession or reverse-engineering of extraterrestrial materials have existed in the past or exist currently.” source


4. Timothy Gallaudet, another believer, witnessed UAP onboard a naval vessel and is convinced that it was proof of extraterrestrial technology. I don't dispute that he observed "something" but I think he makes a leap too far in his certainty that it represents "nonhuman higher intelligence." That's why they're referred to as Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena.

5. Michael Gold is mainly concerned with having NASA do more investigation:
Quote:
Many UAP can often be explained as drones or weather events, Gold admitted. But for those few reports that defy explanation, Gold insisted they'd be better captured with instruments tailored to study the phenomena so as to prevent us relying on cellphones and fighter jets' cockpit gun cameras. source


6. As far as the committee hearing itself goes, House members love to get attention, especially when they can charge bureaucrats with "hiding important evidence from the American people".
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Dec, 2024 11:36 pm
@hightor,
I don't consider this to be a debate. It's more like putting our heads together.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2024 05:59 am
What's Going On With Those Drones Over New Jersey?

Strange things have been happening up and down the East Coast at night.

Quote:
Recent mysterious sightings in our night sky cannot be written off as hallucinations, mass delusions, or hoaxes. Something is indeed happening. But what? For weeks, objects that appear to be drones have been spotted up and down the East Coast, primarily in New Jersey but also in New York, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, and Maryland. Nearly every morning brings new photographic and video evidence of odd occurrences, in addition to fresh eyewitness testimony.

Here are the facts in their simplest form: Night after night, people are reportedly seeing large aerial machines moving slowly across the sky. Some of these aircraft appear to be as big as cars. Often, they fly solo; other times, they glide in pairs or in groups. They have reportedly hovered for up to six hours at a time. They also frequently fly at lower altitudes than small airplanes. Many videos appear to show a rhythmic, steady blinking—white, red, and green flashes. And then, just like that, the lights may vanish—especially if detected.

This is not the stuff of urban legend or internet conspiracy. Even government officials are demanding answers. Last night, Andy Kim, the Democratic senator-elect from New Jersey, ventured out to a reservoir with a local police officer, who had reportedly been spotting the drones nightly. Kim returned with his own video evidence, and shared multiple clips in a thread on X. “We often saw about 5-7 lights at a time that were low and not associated with aircraft we could see on the [flight] tracker app. Some hovered while others moved across the horizon,” Kim wrote. “We clearly saw several that would move horizontally and then immediately switch back in the opposite direction in maneuvers that plane can’t do.”

Larry Hogan, the former Republican governor of Maryland, had a similar experience last night. “I personally witnessed (and videoed) what appeared to be dozens of large drones in the sky above my residence in Davidsonville, Maryland (25 miles from our nation’s capital),” Hogan wrote on X. He, too, shared visuals—and he articulated another knotty truth: “The public is growing increasingly concerned and frustrated with the complete lack of transparency and the dismissive attitude of the federal government.”

Earlier this week, Brian Bergen, a New Jersey state representative, walked out of a Department of Homeland Security briefing about the issue. “It was worthless,” he told a cable-news reporter. “It was the biggest amateur-hour presentation I’ve ever seen about anything. It was ridiculous. There were no answers.” Governor Phil Murphy of New Jersey went so far as to send a letter to President Joe Biden about the issue: “I write with growing concern about reports of unmanned aircraft systems (UAS) in and around New Jersey airspace,” he said. “New Jersey residents deserve more concrete information about these UAS sightings and what is causing them.” Governor Kathy Hochul of New York said on X that her office is working with federal partners to investigate the sightings.

Yesterday, the DHS and the FBI released a joint statement specifically about the Jersey sightings: “We have no evidence at this time that the reported drone sightings pose a national security or public-safety threat or have a foreign nexus.” The statement went on to say that, contrary to reports, many of the reported sightings are of manned aircraft, and that there have been no reported or confirmed drone sightings in any restricted airspace.

These recent events are strikingly similar to other sightings earlier this year. As the independent journalist Matt Laslo has reported, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand of New York was briefed in February on classified intelligence about unidentified craft near U.S.-military sites in Nevada, and in April, Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona spoke about similar incidents at an Air Force outpost in his state. But those instances pale in comparison with the sustained presence of aerial oddities over Langley Air Force Base, in Virginia, last December—a development with profound defense implications, given the base’s proximity to the U.S. Capitol.

Notably, these crafts seem markedly different from the ones in the infamous videos from 2015. Those objects, which were spotted by Navy pilots, darted about with unbelievable speed and maneuvers that almost suggested an unknown technology or propulsion mechanism. The ones seen over the past few weeks seem more quotidian. One possibility is that all of these sightings can be traced back to drone hobbyists, though that’s far from guaranteed.

This morning, I spoke with my colleague Shane Harris, who covers national-security affairs and has written about unexplained aerial phenomena for years. He was struck by how many of these sightings have taken place in densely populated areas (the Northeast Corridor includes the highest concentration of people in the United States) and noted that, accordingly, we are more likely to have a plethora of evidence, given that so many people have recording devices on them at all times. “That has led to an abundance of data—which is not to say it’s all good data,” Shane said. “The videos may be fuzzy, and it might not be clear exactly where they were shot.”

He told me that he interpreted the relative vagueness of the FBI and DHS comments to mean that they might actually not know what these things are. “They’re only going to say as much as they can stand behind, and they’re not going to try to wade too far into speculation, because they know where that leads,” he said. But the fact that government officials such as Kim and Hogan have explored the issue speaks to the growing fascination with this subject.

In an earlier era, if you were a “serious” person asking questions about strange happenings in the sky, you’d likely be mocked. The late Senator Harry Reid made a sustained effort to legitimize the broader topic of unidentified aerial phenomena, even after he retired. But at this point, curiosity about increased sightings is a logical reaction. Nobody is saying that the New Jersey drones are the products of aliens or our geopolitical enemies. The objects are simply unidentified. In other words: The truth is out there, and for now, we’re still waiting for it.

atlantic
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2024 07:38 am
@hightor,
Possibly a dry run for some future project.
0 Replies
 
 

 
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