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100% Proof of Alien Life - Or Not. Y'all Bear With Me

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Apr, 2013 04:28 am
@farmerman,
The human woman's birth canal expands dramatically and the segments of an infant's skull are not yet fused, allowing the passage of the head through the birth canal. You have not made a point, although i'm sure you think you have.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Apr, 2013 04:30 am
I am no scientist, as we all know very well. Aside from the huge head, how likely is a creature that tiny to evolve a body so like a human? Wouldn't it more likely be similar to a bird or rodent?
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Apr, 2013 04:33 am
@edgarblythe,
Structure related to size? I've no idea, but would be willing to follow a discussion.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Apr, 2013 05:12 am
@Setanta,
WAS that end snide remark necessary?
Im saying that you are locked into an anthropomorphic circle where all your conclusions will be based on your inputs that assume that "birth canal strictures" would naturally inhibit easy delivery of this alien only because youve set the rules to be human-like.

I see no problem with the "big head", in fact, if you align it with the body axis, its atreamlined like a knockwurst.

AND, if youd consider that biology may take other paths on other worlds, why not a knockwurst shaped alien?
Actually, there were 7 major groups of mammals on the earth before the Cretaceous Smackdown. MOST of these groups retained a CLOACA as a dual organ for digestion and reproduction. After the Cretaceous we still have two of these groups, the Monotremes and the Marsupials that retained a cloaca -like organ. We are the only mammal group that has split up the two canals into separate systems (whereas we stillconnect our sexual organs and reproduction with renal function).

Why couldnt an alien be one of a bunch of advanced life forms on its planet that was similar (although quite different) to our reptiles and birds ?. Had dinosaurs not been wiped out, maybe they would have invented the Lamborghini.

Nobody has stated that egg laying isnt a possible way that aliens deliver their young.

I think that all advanced life in the universe will share a few constants, like RADIAL or BILATERAL SYMMETRY (everything will be in circles or in twos and arranged on each side of a bilateral line or a central point of focus [like a starfish]) . Once you have those rules set, I think the outcomes are limited in design packages.



Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Apr, 2013 05:19 am
@farmerman,
Is your snide demeanor necessary. I pointed out that your comments about the adaptions of chickens to produce eggs are the same as those which allow women to have babies.

Consider the whole (hilariously silly) "alien" with a body, apart from the skull, the apparent mass of which is less than the skull. On that basis, i consider the alien improbable. Moreover, the body portrayed does not appear sufficient to support the mass of the head portrayed.

So, i still consider this an improbable, a laughably improbable, alleged alien. Finally, consider that the image of the alien is straight out of the pulp science fiction and Hollywood science fiction iconography of the 40s and 50s. The real anthropomorphism going on here is that silly alleged alien.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Apr, 2013 05:20 am
@edgarblythe,
You gotta see the coffee room scenes from Men In Black II, Huge Heads maybe a developmental trait shared by several extra terrestrial groups.
ANYWAY, as I said to set, I see no damn problem with that critters head wrt its alignment with its little body.

AS far as shape of its body, It was probably chosen for familiarity with the scam intended.

However, really, why not? If you look at advanced life on our planet we have but5 or fewer major bauplans for organisms to follow.
Fishlike
Snakelike
Lizard Like
bird like
bipedal like

Everything else on our planet is radial and, while Im not discounting an advanced being sporting radial symmetry, I think itd be hard to climb up an evolutionary ladder in a world where new body styles would be tried out and radial symmetry forms would be limited to just a few very et niches.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Apr, 2013 05:22 am
@roger,
I think metabolism would be a big limiter because of the old rule that surface area affects metabolism and organ wear.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Apr, 2013 05:29 am
@Setanta,
Yes but you missed the cloaca point. It allows for much more flexibility as an ovipositor.
Im merely doin a devils dance here and I dont see any compelling arguments why Not.

Im convinced that this is a scam on the same non compelling resons which all boil down to "Its gotta be bullshit", when actually, the resons for the critters existence havent been negated at all .

eg 'Its heads not too big
So what if its tiny (was that specimen supposed to be a dessicated one from the ATacama?)

Ill admit the damn thing looks like a charm from one of my daughters old bracelets.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Apr, 2013 05:52 am
@farmerman,
Well, as i pointed out, you still think you've made a point, and i don't agree. Whether it's mammalian live-birth or reptilian egg-laying, the limiting factor is the size of the birth canal.

So, to summarize, i'm saying that (apart from the hilarious Hollywood cheesy science fiction iconography), the head is too implausibly large, and the body is too implausibly feeble.

There are certain things which it is not unreasonable to assume for alien life forms. If such a large head could be supported by such an hilariously feeble body, it would only be in a low-G environment, which would make it suicide for one of them to step out onto our planet. But to be more serious about it, an alien life form could boost out of it's mother well if it were low-G without the need of the metallurgy or sophisticated ceramics necessary to build massive vehicles, but said life form would still need to take into account shielding from cosmic radiation as well as the long-term effects of micro-gravity. You just can't get around those things, even by wishing for worm holes and other staples of pulp science fiction. I have in my lifetime read a single work of science fiction which hasn't fudged what we know about the laws of the cosmos, and that was the trilogy Red Mars/Green Mars/Blue Mars. Every other work of science fiction i've ever seen has actually been science fantasy because it tries to avoid or ignore physical laws. One can speculate about worm holes and the like, but unless and until we know they're real, it's just fantasy.

For the same reason (not having given sufficient thought to the implications), i consider the so-called Fermi paradox to be essentially meaningless. It either ignores realities or fudges them.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Apr, 2013 08:14 am
@Setanta,
A cloaca expands much more than the birth canal of most mammals. If you look at the critters xray, I see that the legs are suspended from behind the hip , very "ornithischian" .
I think that the fake little critter was designed and put together with a lot more scientific sophistication than we wish to admit to.
Whoever did it, thought about reproduction , and , as a matter of fact, the little critter WAS a dessicated specimen, hence the Atacama site. So maybe the proportional body bulk was already thought about as a post dessicational aspect . Dry out a person into a mummy and what do we see?

I too feel that its a scam, but, the workmanship and scientific considerations were not that faulty like the "alien autopsy" of a few years ago on cable TV. That specimen was made of ballistic gel and was easily debunked. This one has thought into it.

Im impressed with the biology and the arts n crafts.

I will await the shoes to drop so I can hear where they fucked up.


As far as plausibility of life in space, I am a firm fan of the Drake Equation. Fermi, not so much.

Is interstellar travel possible? Is NEAR light speed propulsion a cumulative recipient of time slow down or is it all occuring at "c" and only "c"? Thats important because several thousand generations of interstellar travellers would be needed to get across our own galaxy, let alone intergalactic travel.

WARPING is a physical reality, however, it is entirely dependent on extreme energy budgets. SO if our need is speed and time, we need to merely come up with new forms of energy thatinvolve other than chemical reaction. and nuclear physics.

I think that 99.9999% of "C" will be physically achievable and then thatd open up a reasonable interstellar travel possibility within our own galaxy. Itd tke about 4000 generations to cruise across our galaxy at light speed. That sounds daunting but think about how wed adapt to interstellar space in that time. Would we look like a bulked up version of this critter. Remember an evolutionary rule that available space dictates morphological bulk. The mammoths of Wrangell Island were as big as Dexter Cattle, all because they quickly adapted to their availabvle range
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Apr, 2013 08:33 am
@dlowan,
But isn't that only a problem if we view them through human capacity?

What if these beings typically live for 3000 years? Would spending 1000 years of that traveling to another solar system be out of the question?
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Apr, 2013 12:52 pm
@edgarblythe,
http://www.openminds.tv/background-of-ufo-documentary-humanoid-alien-revealed-964/
0 Replies
 
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Apr, 2013 01:30 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
I think that 99.9999% of "C" will be physically achievable and then thatd open up a reasonable interstellar travel possibility within our own galaxy.


I hope they have some good radar and navigation. I'd hate to hit someone's moon at that speed. Our galaxy would look a lot more dense.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Apr, 2013 10:53 pm
@farmerman,
All this from what was intended as a little joke! However, I think you are quite right Farmer.

Setanta, you used to be able to get when I was using humour. I am sad that this appears no longer to be so.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Apr, 2013 10:54 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:

But isn't that only a problem if we view them through human capacity?

What if these beings typically live for 3000 years? Would spending 1000 years of that traveling to another solar system be out of the question?


Very possibly not. But I doubt they'd be coming in the numbers the UFO folk appear to think! Also, not many stars are even remotely that close.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Apr, 2013 11:18 pm
@dlowan,
Harry Turtledove (apparantly his real name) wrote a series of SF novels involving an alien invasion. It was hilarious, but kind of thought provoking. They guy's got a PhD in History, by the way. If you run across it in the library, I recommend it.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Apr, 2013 02:01 am
@dlowan,
You're over-reacting. As far as i can see, this thread only got interesting when we started discussing interstellar travel.

A propos of which, travelling a significant fractions of C wouldn't be a problem for the passengers, due to time dilation. It would mean, however, that real time communication with the travellers would be pointless. They could send off a message which says "We got here." and maybe later "We're still alive."--but they'd be on their own. That's why i consider Fermi's ideas silly. Colonizing other star systems would be enormously expensive in terms of materials and energy, and i just think it's highly unlikely.

As for whether or not anyone's out there, i haven't a clue, and i doubt that it's really a meaningful question. Other than someone taking the trouble to send out a message that says: "Hi, how are you?," real time communication is not going to be possible, unless we can overcome the limitation of C, which i doubt.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Apr, 2013 03:34 am
@IRFRANK,
Quote:

I hope they have some good radar and navigation. I'd hate to hit someone's moon at that speed. Our galaxy would look a lot more dense.


You never want to catch up to your headlight beams
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Apr, 2013 03:55 am
@dlowan,
NEVER, EVER, admit or explain that you include humor in your theses. Thats spoils the thesis and people who need to be told dont understand anyway.

I think Alcubierre's Solutions to general relativity which resulted in "Warp" drives were done when he was tanked and needed another beer. Here we are, all full of ourselves and we have no idea how he derove his solutions anyway.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Apr, 2013 04:00 am
@farmerman,
Derove?

You have the weirdest verbs.
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