Approaching a Peace Between Israel and the Palestinians

@H2O MAN,

H2O MAN wrote:

Dissolve the Jewish state, shake hands and try to blend in ??

MOVE the Jewish state...at least give "shaking hands and getting along" a chance to succeed.

Before there was a state of Israel (and the notion of Zionism) in the area...the Jews and Arabs got along relatively peacefully. Certainly a LOT more peacefully than they are now.

Ain't gonna happen.

But it is worthwhile to put the issue into perspective.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Foofie wrote:

In my opinion it is laughable that people of Christian backgrounds were raised in a faith that was basically a Jewish religion, taken over by Gentiles, and now they are ready to place Jews here or there. And, some people say Jews "take over." Ha!

In my opinion it is laughable that you see the comments here that way.

The more realistic way of looking at it would be: What is the best way to insure that Jew and Arab can live relatively peacefully in the area where they want to live peacefully?

The only time that has happened...is when there was no state of Israel there.

Before the state of Israel was there, there was relative harmony.

But...the Jews are free to choose on this question. They can elect to keep Israel there...and to go on just as things are going.

But if that is the choice...there will never be peace...or anything remotely resembling peace for anyone over there.

Sorry. I can't help but think that those of Catholic background find it irritating, on an unconscious level, that "the Jews," that were once the property of the Prince or King in Catholic Europe, now do what they choose, and Christianity does not have control over them. Yes, you are an American; however, my experience has been, more often than not, that Catholics perceive Jews quite differently than most Protestants. So, your lamenting about what Jews will do, or not do, is just atavistic to the Middle Ages, in my opinion.

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@H2O MAN,

H2O MAN wrote:

Dissolve the Jewish state, shake hands and try to blend in ??

Stop showing off your realistic intelligence. Not that it would change those of idealistic thinking.

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In the middle east, both the Arabs and the Jews are playing with relatively new states, bestowed on them by European nations and America. It will take them time to realize the value of peace. How much time did it take Europe?

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

In the middle east, both the Arabs and the Jews are playing with relatively new states, bestowed on them by European nations and America. It will take them time to realize the value of peace. How much time did it take Europe?

The trouble is that times have changed. For instance, the nuke will often make war an unthinkable option, at least for thinking people.

Terrorism is something relatively new, with actions that can be horrific. Consider 9/11, when 19 Muslim men, spending about half a million dollars, killed 3,000 innocents in New York in an attack that has cost this country about a trillion dollars.

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@Advocate,

Quote:

The trouble is that times have changed. For instance, the nuke will often make war an unthinkable option, at least for thinking people.

Let them have nukes then.

Quote:

Terrorism is something relatively new, with actions that can be horrific. Consider 9/11, when 19 Muslim men, spending about half a million dollars, killed 3,000 innocents in New York in an attack that has cost this country about a trillion dollars.

Terrorism isn't new at all, even in the US. Killing native civilians was a way to terrorize other natives into submission, for instance.

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Israel Cabinet not Serious about talks on a Palestinian State

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@Advocate,

Your bias is ridiculous, Advocate.

The real danger to "nukes" is that a government will decide to use one. The only time nukes were ever used was by a democratically elected government, with the full support of most of its people. Far more than 3,000 died.

It may surprise you that there were no "Muslims" involved.

I don't think anyone will use nukes in the Israel, Palestinian conflict (at least I hope not). But if one side were to use nukes, it would almost certainly be Israel, a country that is actively developing and maintaining nuclear weapons and has a history of justifying pretty brutal acts of war.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Your bias is ridiculous, Advocate.

The real danger to "nukes" is that a government will decide to use one. The only time nukes were ever used was by a democratically elected government, with the full support of most of its people. Far more than 3,000 died.

It may surprise you that there were no "Muslims" involved.

I don't think anyone will use nukes in the Israel, Palestinian conflict (at least I hope not). But if one side were to use nukes, it would almost certainly be Israel, a country that is actively developing and maintaining nuclear weapons and has a history of justifying pretty brutal acts of war.

I don't believe Israel would be the first to use nukes. However, if another country, that had nukes, used one on Israel, then Israel would deal with it as they chose, in my opinion.

The secret weapon, sort of humorously stated, is their female soldiers. What Moslem male wants to be a POW of a female soldier? How can that soldier ever return home with an ego? And, if anyone wants to believe that Israeli women are not trained to be combat soldiers, they would be wrong. In other words, the Arab testicle depends on peace with Israel.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

The only time nukes were ever used was by a democratically elected government, with the full support of most of its people.

But we won't mention any names or go into any details, right, Max?

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@revelette,

Quote:

Israel Cabinet not Serious about talks on a Palestinian State

I'm almost predisposed to agree with you, Revelette; however, this time, attempts at Peace Talks toward a two-state solution might be just a bit more promising. International pressure is building against Israeli growing settlements on the West Bank, Palestinian land, and Jerusalem which is supposed to be an *Open City* for all religions NOT OWNED BY ISRAEL and even though US campuses( including *some* lecturers, professors, etc) are united in the policy of Disinvestment from Israel, they are prevented from using the same tactics used on SA by the staunchly pro-Israeli US BOUGHT AND PAID FOR congress; the US cannot restrict the European Union's ban on Israel; the EU's strategy is the beginning of an isolation campaign against the tiny Zionist nation which, eventually, will include a ban on trade if progress is not seen soon.
____
"Israeli leaders condemn EU ban; acknowledge Jewish state's growing isolation over settlements

"JERUSALEM - Israeli leaders on Tuesday condemned a European Union ban on funding to Israeli institutions that operate in occupied territories, but also acknowledged the country's growing isolation over its construction of Jewish settlements in the West Bank and east Jerusalem.

The EU decision marked a new international show of displeasure with Israeli settlements built on lands captured in the 1967 Mideast war, bolstering the Palestinian claim to these territories and animating an increasingly discordant Israeli debate over the wisdom of the settlement enterprise.

The move dominated Israeli newscasts throughout the day, and prompted Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to summon senior Cabinet ministers for consultations.

"We will not accept any external edicts about our borders," Netanyahu said, adding that borders could only be resolved through direct negotiations with the Palestinians. He was suggesting that the settlements are aimed at bringing about changes in the pre-1967 borders, but not absorb the entire West Bank.

Netanyahu said the Europeans should deal with what he called "slightly more urgent" matters in the region, including the civil war in Syria and the Iranian nuclear program.

But Netanyahu's finance minister and senior coalition partner, Yair Lapid, warned that the move reflected Israel's deteriorating position on the global stage.

"The latest decision is part of a long line of decisions that are leading to Israel's isolation in the world. Time is not on our side, and every day that Israel is not in peace negotiations is a day in which our international standing is harmed more," he said."

More:
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Israel+condemns+guidelines+that+funding+cooperation+beyond/8664046/story.html

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@revelette,

I can fully understand why Israel's cabinet is not serious about a peace treaty with the Pals. The latter keep finding ways to sabotage any agreement.

Following the formation of Israel, the country never set foot in the WB and Gaza despite being constantly attacked by the Pals. Finally, following the '67 war, Israel occupied those territories, essentially as a war prize.

BTW, there is no reason that Jews cannot live in WB and Gaza. Their presence is currently 10 % of the population. The Pal population in Israel is almost double that percentage.

There is no Palestinian nation. Thus, Israel has every right to form settlements in those occupied areas.

I have no doubt that the Pals and their allies would have no problem with nuking Israel. The former would use any weapon in their possesion, giving little or no thought to the consequences to them and others.

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@maxdancona,

I guess you have not noticed the proliferat ion of the bomb. There is little doubt that the Pals will eventually have one or more.

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@Advocate,

Quote:

Terrorism is something relatively new

Absolute bullshit, A. How can you even consider advancing such a ludicrous idea? The US has been engaging in terrorism virtually since its inception.

Quote:

, with actions that can be horrific.

Indeed. Consider the Black ships way back in 1853, terrorizing Japan to try and force them to trade with the US.

Consider the millions terrorized in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Korea, Japan, Hawaii, the Philippines, Nicaragua, Mexico, Ecuador, Chile, Greece, Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, ... .

Quote:

Consider 9/11, when 19 Muslim men, spending about half a million dollars, killed 3,000 innocents in New York in an attack that has cost this country about a trillion dollars.

Piddling totals in people and money when you measure it against the terrorism of the US against all the aforementioned countries and more.

1 Reply

@JTT,

I can't believe that I wrote that nonsense. I really think that someone else inserted that stuff.

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@Advocate,

Quote:

I can't believe that I wrote that nonsense. I really think that someone else inserted that stuff.

Such is the power of US propaganda.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

So then, Ethnic Cleansing is the best security?

Israel has not attempted (or even proposed) ethnic cleansing.

But given the Palestinians' unending aggression and refusal to ever make peace, yes it is. The best result can be had by clearing all the Palestinians out of the West Bank and forcing them to relocate to the Gaza Strip.

Hopefully Israel will eventually realize this and act accordingly.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Seeing as how the Palestinians precede the state of Israel, it is the state of Israel that has to respect the claims of the Palestinians.

The Kingdom of Israel was created some 3000 years ago. The modern state is merely a continuation of the kingdom.

The Palestinians do not in any way precede it.

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

The Israelis have been in the area since 1948.

The Israelis have been there since the dawn of the Iron Age, at a minimum.

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@oralloy,

More revisionist history.

1 Reply

Approaching a Peace Between Israel and the Palestinians

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