Approaching a Peace Between Israel and the Palestinians

You could not be more wrong.

Considering all the genocides and massacres of Jews over the centuries, no Jews think they are the chosen people. Unless "chosen" is meant to mean chosen to suffer death and destruction over and over again.

Bin Laden said that the USA was attacked because of its presence in the ME, especially in Saudi Arabia, where we had a base. He considered the presence to be a sacrilege.

Actually, you're wrong, A. You didn't watch that short film of Jews evicting Palestinians from their homes and claiming that these were their houses when no Jew had ever lived in them.

Advocate wrote:





ROTFL! JTT, you are rib-tickling funny!!!! Genius insight, really!

That is hardly a claim that Jews are the chosen people. Moreover, I wager you are taking the statement out of context.

You are not the most honest person around here.

When it comes to Israel neither are you the most honest poster here.

Israel welcomes Arab League's 'land swap' position
Israel took the rare step of hailing "positive news" from the Arab League, welcoming the group's acceptance that any peace agreement with the Palestinians would include "land swaps", instead of rigid obedience to the 1967 borders.

The Arab League's new position breaks a significant taboo. Eleven years ago, this alliance of 22 Arab countries offered Israel peace in return for a full withdrawal from all land captured in the Six Day War of 1967.

But more than 500,000 Jewish settlers now live in Israeli-occupied territory. America believes the biggest settlements would be practically and politically impossible for any Israeli government to evacuate. One possible answer would be for Israel to annex these blocks, while compensating the Palestinians with other land.

That would mean conceding the principle that Israel could keep some land captured in 1967 even after a final peace agreement. But the Arab League appears to have made that shift. Sheikh Hamad bin Jassim al-Thani, the prime minister of Qatar, led an Arab League delegation to meet John Kerry, the US secretary of state, in Washington.

Afterwards, Mr Kerry said that his guests "affirmed that agreement should be based on the two-state solution on the basis of the 4th of June 1967 line, with the (possibility) of comparable and mutual agreed minor swap of the land".

Tzipi Livni, the Israeli cabinet minister in charge of peace talks, described this as "very positive news". She told Army radio: "In the tumultuous world around, it could allow the Palestinians to enter the room and make the needed compromises and it sends a message to the Israeli public that this is not just about us and the Palestinians," she added. "There is a group of Arab states who are saying: you reach an agreement with the Palestinians and we will make peace with you, we will have normalisation with you."

Advocate wrote:



Quote:
JTT wrote:


Moment-in-Tme wrote:


Advocate wrote:


Alright, Advocate, supposing you point out to me my dishonesty. Sometimes when writing impulsively or having had too much wine, I'll make mistakes, forgetting to check my facts before posting. But I have never been deliberately dishonest! What would be the point?! You are not my enemy, and I do not view you as such. I find you very much on the defensive, but that's a normal reaction I get from strong-minded Zionists.

It's at least a try ...



... but with some reactions:
Source

Please show me where I have been dishonest. Coming from you, the charge is particularly ironic.

You are reasonable on most subjects on this forum. On the Isralie question you are a bug. I will leave it up to the other posters to decide wether you tell the truth or spout Isralie propaganda. You will not accept that Israel has its own agenda and would drop us like a hot potato if it was too their advantage thus the USS Liberty.

Every country has its own agenda. Regarding the Liberty, I think you know very well that the incident was found to be an accident.

By the Isralies and their US front men. If you look up the people without an agenda they agree that it couldent have been an accident unless all the planes and gunboats were peopled by blind men. The american flag was so badly shot up it had to be replaced by members of the crew and still these blind Jews continued their attack. Without I might add markings on their planes and boats so they couldent be identified.

The USS LIBERTY


Fallacy:
"It is concluded clearly and unimpeachably from the evidence
and from comparison of war diaries that the attack on USS Liberty was
not in malice; there was no criminal negligence and the attack was made
by innocent mistake."
--Government of Israel statement, 1967

Fact:
In bright daylight on June 8, with no other combat taking place nearby,
Israeli warplanes and torpedo boats repeatedly attacked the U.S.
intelligence ship Liberty off the Sinai coast, killing 34 of its crew
and wounding 171. The attack involved the use of napalm, rockets,
machine guns, and torpedoes. It had been preceded by reconnaissance by
Israeli planes for at least five and a half hours, during a time when
the ship was flying a new flag that flew freely in a light breeze.

Though Israel through the years has insisted it was a case of mistaken
identify and an accident, abundant evidence emerged to strongly support
the charge that Israel deliberately attacked the intelligence ship,
apparently because it feared the Liberty would monitor Israeli
preparations for invading the Golan Heights the next day. The Johnson
administration accepted Israel's claim that the assault resulted from
misidentification. Even years later, Johnson was evasive about the
incident, claiming in his memoirs that only ten men died in the attack.
It was a clear indication of how Johnson colluded with Israel.

At late as 1991, survivors of the attack charged the U.S. government
with continuing to cover up Israel's role. Wrote James Ennes, a
lieutenant on the bridge on the day of the attack: "The official lid on
this story remains almost as tight as the day it was first applied."
This was despite the fact that such former officials as Secretary of
State Dean Rusk and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of State Admiral
Thomas Moorer had gone on record blaming Israel for deliberately
assaulting the Liberty.

Rusk's words in his memoirs: "I was never satisfied with the Israeli
explanation.... I didn't believe them then, and I don't believe them to
this day. The attack was outrageous." Concluded Ennes: "Yet despite
such strong opinions of key leaders, not a single person while still in
government has ever made any apparent effort to set the record
straight."

It was not until June 8, 1991, that the survivors were finally awarded a
presidential unit citation signed by Johnson in 1967 but not presented
at that time. Then on November 6, 1991, columnists Rowland Evans and
Robert Novak finally discovered that the U.S. embassy in Beirut had
intercepted Israeli radio traffic in which an Israeli pilot reported:
"It's an American ship." The Israeli command ignored the report and
ordered the pilot to press his attack. Evans and Novak concluded that
Israel attacked "because [the Liberty] would have picked up every word
of communication between IDF headquarters and Israeli units preparing to invade Syria." The Israeli invasion of the Golan Heights came the day
after Israel had silence the Liberty. The report was confirmed by
Dwight Porter, who was the American ambassador to Lebanon at the time.
Thus, after twenty-four years, the truth has finally emerged.

http://www.ussliberty.org/findley.txt
Source: Deliberate Deceptions by Paul Findley (Lawrence Hill Books,
1995)

The attack on the USS Liberty was a case of mistaken identity.


USS Liberty attack tapes released
From David Ensor
CNN Washington Bureau
Thursday, July 10, 2003 Posted: 3:35 AM EDT (0735 GMT)





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Tapes released by the National Security Agency shed new light on the mysterious 1967 Israeli attack on the USS Liberty that killed 34 Americans. CNN's David Ensor reports (July 10)


USS LIBERTY
• 7,725 ton Belmont class technical research ship
• Built in 1945 as civilian cargo ship Simmons Victory
• Acquired by U.S. Navy in 1963, commissioned 1964
• Mission: To collect, process foreign communications
• Attacked on June 8 1967
• Escorted to Malta for repairs
• Decommissioned in June 1968
• Sold for scrap in 1970
Source: U.S. Navy


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Tapes released by the National Security Agency shed new light on the 1967 Israeli attack on the USS Liberty that killed 34 Americans and is one of the most controversial mysteries in U.S. Navy history.

The attack, which took place in international waters off the Sinai Peninsula on June 8, 1967, during the Six Day War, also left 171 Americans injured.

The Israelis have always said the attack on the Liberty, which was monitoring communications in the war, was a tragic accident.

But some survivors and senior U.S. officials at the time have said they believe the attack was a deliberate effort to stop American surveillance of Israeli activities during the conflict.

The NSA on Tuesday released audiotapes of Israeli pilots and ground control speaking in Hebrew, along with English transcripts.

The recordings were made by a nearby American surveillance aircraft in the immediate aftermath of the attack.

"For your info, it is apparently an Arab ship," says ground control.

"Roger," says the pilot.

"It is an Egyptian supply ship," says ground control.

"Roger," comes the response.

The NSA released the tapes and transcripts under the Freedom of Information Act in response to a request from Miami Judge Jay Cristol.

An author of a book on the attack, Cristol said the tapes show it was a tragic accident in a time of war -- that the Israelis mistook the ship for an Egyptian one.

"I don't think there's any question that anyone who reads these tapes would be absolutely convinced there was the fog of war out there," Cristol said.

Later on the tape, the Israelis sound confused and concerned. Ground control orders the helicopter pilots to look for survivors and to check their nationality.

"If they speak Arabic -- Egyptians -- you're taking them to Al-Arish. If they speak English -- non-Egyptians -- you're taking them to Lod. Is that clear?" says ground control.

"Roger," says the pilot.

James Bamford, the author of a history of the NSA, believes the tapes suggest the Israelis may have deliberately attacked the U.S. spy ship, perhaps fearing -- for some reason not known -- that it was spying on them.

"Here the transcripts are saying, 'Well, you know, there may be people speaking English on this ship,'" Bamford said. "Why would you say that if it's an Egyptian ship, carrying horses?"

On the tape, after the rescue helicopter pilot tells ground control he sees an American flag on the ship, he receives an order in return.

"They request that you make another pass and check once again whether it is really an American flag," ground control says.

The order suggests the Israelis were surprised at word of a U.S. flag, but it also runs counter to what Israeli fighter pilots and torpedo boat crews have always insisted: That they could not see an American flag.

"Clearly the flag was there," Bamford said, "because the intercepts show that the helicopter pilots saw it immediately, before they ever even got up to the ship."

The ship's flag now hangs in the National Cryptologic Museum in Fort Meade, Maryland, adjacent to NSA headquarters.

"I think this is probably the most important link in the evidence that ought to bring closure to this matter," Cristol said.

Surviving members of the Liberty crew argue that -- far from putting the matter to rest -- the tapes only underline the continuing need for a full, public U.S. investigation.

"A simple investigation -- that's all they have to do," said Joe Meadors, a Liberty survivor. "Find out what happened. If anybody did anything wrong, punish them."

In a letter to Cristol, the NSA said that contrary to rumors there was no U.S. submarine in the area watching, and the Liberty itself made no relevant recordings.

Israeli Embassy spokesman Mark Regev said the tapes are "further evidence that the Liberty incident was a terrible and tragic case of mistaken identity."

liar
liar
LIAR

A baseless reply if I every saw one.

Why would CNN lie about the issue? But I guess it defends your hated Israel.

In 2003 CNN was just quoting some Isralie propaganda backed by U S front men. Took some time for the real facts to come out.