11
   

Approaching a Peace Between Israel and the Palestinians

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 May, 2013 09:52 am
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

-- science.com
You should be honest enough to name the real source and not a fake one!


Besides that, your source -http://www.science.co.il/History-Palestine.php- is copyrighted:
Quote:
© 1999-2013 Israel Science and Technology Directory.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Tue 14 May, 2013 10:54 am
@Advocate,
Quote:
Palestinians are new to the area, which is the homeland of the Jews.


The Palestinians have been in Palestine for millennia.

Quote:
It was only after the Jews re-inhabited their historic homeland of Judea and Samaria, that the myth of an Arab Palestinian nation was created and marketed worldwide. Jews come from Judea, not Palestinians.


"The Jews" who immigrated to Palestine to create the state of Israel were Europeans whose historic homeland was Europe, silly religious mythologies notwithstanding. Later, Persians, Arabs, North Africans and other peoples who also professed the Jewish religion--or, at least, whose forefathers had professed Judaism--immigrated to Palestine as well.

Quote:
There is no language known as Palestinian, or any Palestinian culture distinct from that of all the Arabs in the area. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. "Palestinians" are Arabs indistinguishable from Arabs throughout the Middle East. The great majority of Arabs in greater Palestine and Israel share the same culture, language and religion.


All of this, of course, does not negate the fact that Palestinians have been in Palestine for millennia.

More importantly, it certainly does not negate the fact that the Palestinians have rights to Palestine that are being violated by the state of Israel.

Quote:
Much of the Arab population in this area actually migrated into Israel and Judea and Samaria from the surrounding Arab countries in the past 100 years.


That population came from nearby areas which were homogeneous with the populations in Palestine.

Much of the population in Palestine was indigenous.

Quote:
The rebirth of Israel was accompanied by economic prosperity for the region. Arabs migrated to this area to find employment and enjoy the higher standard of living. In documents not more than hundred years, the area is described as a scarcely populated region. Jews by far were the majority in Jerusalem over the small Arab minority. Until the Oslo agreement the major source of income for Arab residents was employment in the Israeli sector. To this day, many Arabs try to migrate into Israel with various deceptions to become a citizen of Israel.


This is irrelevant in regard to the assertion that Palestinians are new to the area. What's more, this does not negate the fact that the Palestinians have rights which the state of Israel is violating.

Quote:
Even the Chairman of the Palestinian Authority, Arafat himself, is not a "Palestinian". He was born in Egypt. The famous "Palestinian covenant" states that Palestinians are "an integral part of the Arab nation" -- a nation which is blessed with a sparsely populated land mass 660 times the size of tiny Israel (Judea, Samaria and Gaza included).


And Ben Gurion, Yitzhak Shamir, Menachem Begin, etc, etc, were all born in Europe. So what?

Again, this is irrelevant in regard to the assertion that Palestinians are new to the area. What's more, this does not negate the fact that the Palestinians have rights which the state of Israel is violating.

Quote:
All attempts to claim Arab sovereignty over Israel of today, should be seen with their real intention: The destruction of Israel as a Jewish state and the only bulwark of the Judeo-Christian Western civilization in the Middle East.


Yet again, this paranoid and bigoted non sequitur is also irrelevant in regard to the assertion that Palestinians are new to the area, and does not negate the fact that the Palestinians have rights which the state of Israel is violating.
Moment-in-Time
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 May, 2013 06:18 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:

And Ben Gurion, Yitzhak Shamir, Menachem Begin, etc, etc, were all born in Europe. So what?


Excellent post, InfraBlue. European Jews are Khazar converts and their closest homeland might be Georgia. This business of saying Palestine is the Jews ancient homeland (they cannot produce a deed to said land and would be laughed out of every court in the land) is right to a certain degree but that was over 2000 years ago and the Jews when they did reign only did so for 600 years out of the 5000 years of recorded world history, Other foreign nations ruled much longer than ancient Israel. European Jews (Khazars) have no ancient connection to Palestine whatsoever!
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 May, 2013 08:57 am
In Israel, Jews from the Middle East and Northern Africa were the majority of Jews for decades. They were as much as 70 percent of the Jewish population.
Walter Hinteler
 
  0  
Reply Wed 15 May, 2013 10:11 am
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

In Israel, Jews from the Middle East and Northern Africa were the majority of Jews for decades. They were as much as 70 percent of the Jewish population.
That certainly might have been so ... quite some time ago.

You can get later figures via Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics

http://i39.tinypic.com/33f6a1l.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/34zj901.jpg
Source for above: Burstein, immigration, ethnicity, stratification, SIS 150, Jan. 31, p. 10 via University of Washington
Foofie
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 May, 2013 12:43 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Advocate wrote:

In Israel, Jews from the Middle East and Northern Africa were the majority of Jews for decades. They were as much as 70 percent of the Jewish population.
That certainly might have been so ... quite some time ago.

You can get later figures via Israel's Central Bureau of Statistics

http://i39.tinypic.com/33f6a1l.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/34zj901.jpg
Source for above: Burstein, immigration, ethnicity, stratification, SIS 150, Jan. 31, p. 10 via University of Washington


1961 is not that far from 1957, when at the end of the 1957 war the Middle Eastern Arab countries sent their Jewish population to Israel. Those "Sephardic" Jews have a much higher birthrate than Ashkenazi Jews. So, by showing statistics until 1961, the numbers do not include the next generation of greater births.

The ex-Sovitet Jews did add a population that made Israel 13% ex-Soviets by the 1990's; however, they do not have the large families of the Sephardim. They will turn Israel into a non-European majority country in a few shakes of the lambs tail.

Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 May, 2013 01:32 pm
So long as there is a state of Israel in that area...and any living Arabs...there will NEVER be anything remotely resembling peace there...for Arab or Israeli.

One or the other has to go.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 May, 2013 01:33 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
So, by showing statistics until 1961, the numbers do not include the next generation of greater births.
I've chosen those tables as a response and not as a general overview.

But I did give a link to the website of the Central Bureau of Statistics as well - all those statistics you mention, Foofie, are to be found there.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 May, 2013 01:36 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:



One or the other has to go.


You pick the one that has to go. Go ahead and make your choice known.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 May, 2013 01:41 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:



One or the other has to go.


You pick the one that has to go. Go ahead and make your choice known.


I think the state of Israel should go.

I've been saying that right along. Jews and Arabs can live there in relative peace with the state of Israel gone...just like they did for a couple thousand years before the state of Israel came into existence.

Anything else you want to know, you crafty devil?
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 May, 2013 01:44 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:



One or the other has to go.


You pick the one that has to go. Go ahead and make your choice known.


I think the state of Israel should go.

I've been saying that right along. Jews and Arabs can live there in relative peace with the state of Israel gone...just like they did for a couple thousand years before the state of Israel came into existence.

Anything else you want to know, you crafty devil?


How do you plan to make Israel go away?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 May, 2013 01:49 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:



One or the other has to go.


You pick the one that has to go. Go ahead and make your choice known.


I think the state of Israel should go.

I've been saying that right along. Jews and Arabs can live there in relative peace with the state of Israel gone...just like they did for a couple thousand years before the state of Israel came into existence.

Anything else you want to know, you crafty devil?


How do you plan to make Israel go away?


I don't plan on doing it. I don't have that kind of power.

Israel ought to do it. It would be much safer if it bought a similar sized piece of land in the United States or Canada...and set up shop here. All safe...nobody being killed. Turn the entire of the part of the Middle East now known as Palestine and Israel over to the United Nations as a protectorate...and let any Jews and Arabs who want to live there...live there in relative peace.

They did it before...they can do it again. But NOT WITH THE STATE OF ISRAEL THERE.

Israel came into being there by proclamation...and can go out of existence there by the same method.


Or...it can stay there an live under the conditions that will continue to prevail forever if it stays there.
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 May, 2013 01:53 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:



One or the other has to go.


You pick the one that has to go. Go ahead and make your choice known.


I think the state of Israel should go.

I've been saying that right along. Jews and Arabs can live there in relative peace with the state of Israel gone...just like they did for a couple thousand years before the state of Israel came into existence.

Anything else you want to know, you crafty devil?


How do you plan to make Israel go away?


I don't plan on doing it. I don't have that kind of power.

Israel ought to do it. It would be much safer if it bought a similar sized piece of land in the United States or Canada...and set up shop here. All safe...nobody being killed. Turn the entire of the part of the Middle East now known as Palestine and Israel over to the United Nations as a protectorate...and let any Jews and Arabs who want to live there...live there in relative peace.

They did it before...they can do it again. But NOT WITH THE STATE OF ISRAEL THERE.

Israel came into being there by proclamation...and can go out of existence there by the same method.


Or...it can stay there an live under the conditions that will continue to prevail forever if it stays there.


Give them a sea to shining sea ribbon of land that separates Mexico
from the US and let Israel be in charge of securing their borders.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 May, 2013 02:15 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:



One or the other has to go.


You pick the one that has to go. Go ahead and make your choice known.


I think the state of Israel should go.

I've been saying that right along. Jews and Arabs can live there in relative peace with the state of Israel gone...just like they did for a couple thousand years before the state of Israel came into existence.

Anything else you want to know, you crafty devil?


How do you plan to make Israel go away?


I don't plan on doing it. I don't have that kind of power.

Israel ought to do it. It would be much safer if it bought a similar sized piece of land in the United States or Canada...and set up shop here. All safe...nobody being killed. Turn the entire of the part of the Middle East now known as Palestine and Israel over to the United Nations as a protectorate...and let any Jews and Arabs who want to live there...live there in relative peace.

They did it before...they can do it again. But NOT WITH THE STATE OF ISRAEL THERE.

Israel came into being there by proclamation...and can go out of existence there by the same method.


Or...it can stay there an live under the conditions that will continue to prevail forever if it stays there.


Give them a sea to shining sea ribbon of land that separates Mexico
from the US and let Israel be in charge of securing their borders.


I think that would be asking for trouble.

Better idea would be to allow them to buy a patch of land (at a very, very reasonable price) that compares to the land Israel is now occupying...and let them turn that piece of land into something worthwhile.

Everybody would be the better for it.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 May, 2013 02:17 pm
I like my idea better.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 May, 2013 02:24 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

I like my idea better.


Don't we all. Wink

This was a reasonable...and nice discussion, H2O. Thanks.
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 May, 2013 02:35 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:

I like my idea better.


Don't we all. Wink

This was a reasonable...and nice discussion, H2O. Thanks.


My pleasure and thank you
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 May, 2013 07:09 pm
In my opinion it is laughable that people of Christian backgrounds were raised in a faith that was basically a Jewish religion, taken over by Gentiles, and now they are ready to place Jews here or there. And, some people say Jews "take over." Ha!
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 May, 2013 08:07 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

In my opinion it is laughable that people of Christian backgrounds were raised in a faith that was basically a Jewish religion, taken over by Gentiles, and now they are ready to place Jews here or there. And, some people say Jews "take over." Ha!


In my opinion it is laughable that you see the comments here that way.

The more realistic way of looking at it would be: What is the best way to insure that Jew and Arab can live relatively peacefully in the area where they want to live peacefully?

The only time that has happened...is when there was no state of Israel there.

Before the state of Israel was there, there was relative harmony.

But...the Jews are free to choose on this question. They can elect to keep Israel there...and to go on just as things are going.

But if that is the choice...there will never be peace...or anything remotely resembling peace for anyone over there.
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 May, 2013 08:15 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Dissolve the Jewish state, shake hands and try to blend in ??
 

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