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Tue 2 Apr, 2013 10:50 am
This may seem cynical, but I’ve come to the conclusion that the angry personal exchanges that regularly occur in Internet forums are more representative of the truth about how we humans feel about each other…than the guarded, seemingly courteous exchanges that occur in so-called “real life.”
An observation, if I may: North Korean leader, Kim Jong Un, would undoubtedly feel comfortable posting in an Internet forum. He’d be able to spew his hatred, arrogance and disdain for others with impunity…just as his unique position as dictator allows him to do in “real life.” I suspect people like Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Stalin, Caligula, Genghis Khan, members of various Supremacist groups, KKKers, and others of that ilk would all find Internet “conversations” and confrontations to their liking…and would use Internet opportunities to good advantage.
The many everyday posters who, disguised by pseudonyms, disgorge their anger, frustrations, and general contempt for others are able to do so because the anonymity of the Internet allows them the kind of immunity and invulnerability Kim and those other dictators get (or got) from “real world” position. Essentially those “everyday posters” become dictators of a sort—people who do not have to worry about observing niceties and considerations for the feelings of others; the obscurity and safety-of-distance of the Internet gives them insulation from society’s customs and immunity from society’s disapproval of rude, misogynistic, racist, misanthropic conduct.
BOTTOM LINE: One has to question whether the kinds of excesses we see in dictators are really the norm of human behavior rather than the exception.
Perhaps the reason we don’t see more of that kind of behavior is because the opportunities for dictatorship have been so rare.
But now that the Internet is giving so many people the space to act as they would if cloaked in the safety of dictatorship…we are seeing the true human character to emerge.
It is sad that this possibility has to be considered, but the fact that there is even a remote chance that this may be valid (and Internet “conversations” ARE showing it to be a possibility) allow for a kind of mirror to be available for looking at ourselves.
Well we ought all to do so.
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Amen, you've expressed it far better than I could ever
My theory, the guy unsatisfied with his daily life, powerless, and who seems terribly angry at all times about nearly everything, is drawn to the Web forum, an opportunity to vent his feelings, eg, at even the most innocent posting by a fellow participant
The Troll on the other hand, loves to interact with that sort of fellow, a game to rile him, eliciting angry responses that give this tormentor even more ammunition
@dalehileman,
It is a weird thing, Dale.
But I am beginning to see that the Internet gives us a better chance to see us without our clothes or "make-up" on, so to speak.
@Frank Apisa,
Often...not a pleasant sight.
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:without our clothes or "make-up" on, so to speak.
Yea Frank, well put
In fact I'm now just beginning to realize after some 17 years' doing this, how I sometimes qualify in that category also
….falling in to the very trap
http://able2know.org/topic/211041-1
….that you so skilfully outflank so often
Certain people are like that on forums, but not all. The ones who don't like the arguing and bile eventually leave forums that don't control the attack style of posting.
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
Certain people are like that on forums, but not all. The ones who don't like the arguing and bile eventually leave forums that don't control the attack style of posting.
Right you are, edgar. I've lost count of how many of my favorite gentle people have bolted this A2k forum and I now have to follow them to Facebook if I want to continue an on-line interchange with them. I keep avoiding Facebook; I don't like the format at all. But I can well understand why some would leave here.
@edgarblythe,
Quote:Certain people are like that on forums, but not all. The ones who don't like the arguing and bile eventually leave forums that don't control the attack style of posting.
The question is still evolving in my mind, Edgar, but at the moment it appears to me that the Internet is telling us something very, very interesting about people and the way they act if they have immunity from consequences.
It is not a pretty picture that is developing for me...and I hope I find something to indicate that I am wrong.
Indeed many people leave, but the number who continue to be as I suggest is still much, much, much higher than I would like it to be.
I include myself in that negative part.
I am, after all, still here. I have not fled.
I doubt I have to finish that thought.
@Lustig Andrei,
Andy...my reply above applied to what you say here also.
@Frank Apisa,
If I understand you correctly, Frank, your contention is that the ubiquity of the internet has revealed something new (or, at least, unexpected) and nasty about human nature. Or, perhaps, just made he nasties come out of the woodwork because, behind the cyber-mask of anonymity, they feel safe in revealing themselves. But there's really nothing new about any of that. Any number of the most vituperative and scalding of drama critics, art critics, book reviewers etc. turn out to be shy and retiring pussycats in real life, should you meet them face-to-face. So, the revelation that people can be quite unpleasant when they don't have to confront the persons they are being unpleasant to
viva voce is no revelation at all.
Please feel free to disagree.
@Lustig Andrei,
No I do not disagree.
But the more universal aspect generated by the Internet revolution is more jarring...at least to me.
@Lustig Andrei,
Quote:Or, perhaps, just made he nasties come out of the woodwork because, behind the cyber-mask of anonymity, they feel safe in revealing themselves.
Andy you hit it on the head
It's interesting to note at this point: On other forums those who feel completely powerless in their everyday lives gravitate to admin positions, invent scores if not hundreds of special rules, making it possible ban any participant for practically any reason at all
Our forum however is the most liberal in this respect of any in which I've participated (and been banned). Were it like the rest I'd have long ago been kicked off a2k
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:It's interesting to note at this point: On other forums those who feel completely powerless in their everyday lives gravitate to admin positions, invent scores if not hundreds of special rules, making it possible ban any participant for practically any reason at all
Sounds like any typical hierarchical social structure. People with no particular other talents love to be rule-makers and rule-enforcers.
Vid. politicians and "peace officers".
@Frank Apisa,
First the percent of the population that feel passions enough on subjects to take a large part of their free times to bring forth and defend these positions on issues is not large enough to allow any generalization concerning the whole human race!
But with that stated given humans are the alpha predators on the earth and the meek did not tend to passed their meekness onto the next generation. This is balance out by the fact that we are also pack animals that need to work together a large percents of the time.
In some areas of the net the limit normally place on our aggressiveness by needing to parts of the pack is not as large a factor as in face to face "normal" life.
We are both at the same time pack animals and aggressive alpha predators and the balance between the two are in constant flux.
@Lustig Andrei,
Quote:People with no particular other talents love to be rule-makers
Yea Andy, and folk who otherwise feel powerless. I was kicked off one forum for misspelling a couple of words
@BillRM,
Quote:not large enough to allow any generalization concerning the whole human race!
True Bill, folk like us aren't typical. In fact judging from those in my immediate contact, the need to express oneself is rare. My family and friends can't understand why I do this kind of stuff
Quote:We are both at the same time pack animals and aggressive alpha predators
By "We" I presume you mean forum participants, esp like a2k
@dalehileman,
Quote:Quote:
We are both at the same time pack animals and aggressive alpha predators
By "We" I presume you mean forum participants, esp like a2k
No, I mean that the set point between being aggressive in driving your position on this website home and the need of limiting such aggressiveness for reasons of maintaining the pack relationships is not the same as in most off line dealings.
Most people are not interested in such debates but assuming an interest in such debates most would, in my opinion follow the same pattern of being more aggressive due to the simple fact that social concerns are less.
It is not a moral failing it just the balance that is always there in humans and for that matter all other predator/pack animals in my opinion.
@BillRM,
Quote:No, I mean that the set point between being aggressive in driving your position on this website home and the need of limiting such aggressiveness for reasons of maintaining the pack relationships is not the same as in most off line dealings……..more aggressive due to the simple fact that social concerns are less.
Wow Bill, but isn't that just another way of saying they're drawn here because of the anonymity we afford
@Frank Apisa,
I'm more jarred by politesse and its filmy swath.
I agree that reasoned discourse should be reasoned; I think emotional reactions to many matters have their own validity. I think reasoned discourse can be bizarre and emotional reactions can fly the coop or be correct.
I think humans have from early on tried out play and bombast, even in primitive talk.
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