128
   

How can we be sure that all religions are wrong?

 
 
Jasper10
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 07:27 am
@Frank Apisa,
There is NOTHING more you can do Frank...NOTHING.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 07:48 am
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

There is NOTHING more you can do Frank...NOTHING.


Yeah...I agree.

I can do nothing.

Which is different from "hoping"...which you foolishly claim is what I must do.

Thanks for finally getting that.
Jasper10
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 07:52 am
@Frank Apisa,
You can do nothing.....if you wish...you can sit on the fence and do nothing.

What makes you think sitting on the fence is the answer?

Any coward can do that and throw insults either side of the fence.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 09:27 am
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

You can do nothing.....if you wish...you can sit on the fence and do nothing.

What makes you think sitting on the fence is the answer?

Any coward can do that and throw insults either side of the fence.


Acknowledging that I do not know...and consider it stupid to toss a coin to make a guess...IS NOT SITTING ON A FENCE.

But it is something other than "hoping"...which you have been insisting is the only choice.

You are a fruitcake, Jasper. I was advised early on that you were not worth the trouble of discussion or debate...but I wanted to think that you could do better.

You haven't.

I am coming close to just putting you on ignore...and be done with the amateurism.

But I am still willing to give you the benefit of the doubt for a while longer.

Do you acknowledge that "hoping" is not the only choice?
Jasper10
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 09:46 am
@Frank Apisa,
I couldn't care less if you stick me on ignore or not Frank. It would be a shame though.

You weren't interested in HOPE and now you are considering it as a possibility.What's going on Frank? You can come up with as many of your clever phrases as you want Frank...they will always get countered so you will always be sitting on your fence wondering......it doesn't change a thing.

If there is a God and it is the God of the bible...….then believing in him or not is not enough, that is the point. I think you get that bit now......HOPEFULLY.
Frank Apisa
 
  5  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 10:01 am
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

I couldn't care less if you stick me on ignore or not Frank. It would be a shame though.

You weren't interested in HOPE and now you are considering it as a possibility.What's going on Frank? You can come up with as many of your clever phrases as you want Frank...they will always get countered so you will always be sitting on your fence wondering......it doesn't change a thing.

If there is a God and it is the God of the bible...….then believing in him or not is not enough, that is the point. I think you get that bit now......HOPEFULLY.


You are one of the most clueless individuals I've ever encountered in this forum, Jasper.

Glad you could care less if I put you on ignore...because I am doing that right after posting this.
Jasper10
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 10:06 am
@Frank Apisa,
I am not clueless Frank.
NealNealNeal
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 10:38 am
@Jasper10,
Jasper
Unfortunately, 1 Corinthians 1:18 applies to Frank. He wants proof that we can't give him and God refuses to give.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 11:11 am
@NealNealNeal,
Quote:
Frank probably was disappointed in God in some way. This is a common occurrence.
I’m sure that is true. He lets on that it is the issue of slavery and God's treatment of his Son that upsets him. As if someone serious about becoming a Priest was not aware of these issues in the Bible already? Nonsense.

Yes, something came up that challenged his relationship with God. That will happen to everyone who seeks God. You either take on the challenge or walk away defeated. It would interesting to know what Frank's challenge actually was.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 11:22 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
And I have "come clean" about why my stance has changed.

I GREW UP.

Right, an intelligent and thoughtful man who was serious enough about God to want to become a priest, wakes up one day and realized he had no idea why he ever got that committed to a God he had no reason to think he existed or not.

I find it hard to believe you were that shallow either before or after walking away.
0 Replies
 
Jasper10
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 11:31 am
@NealNealNeal,
I have just read 1 Corinthians 1:18....yes...we all start off wanting proof, we forget that.The God of the bible says that belief or non belief are of no use to an individual because even the devil believes God exists.An individual needs to take the next step in Faith to truly come into an understanding the Saviour.

0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 11:49 am
@NealNealNeal,
NealNealNeal wrote:

Jasper
Unfortunately, 1 Corinthians 1:18 applies to Frank. He wants proof that we can't give him and God refuses to give.


Neal, what "proof" are you supposing I am asking for?
NealNealNeal
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 03:38 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank,
I believe that Leadfoot is incorrect about your personal motives. I think you came to the conclusion that Christianity is silly. That is why I quoted the verse.
Jasper provided philosophical proof for God. I assume that you studied Christian Apologetics. I provided testimony about my personal relationship with God. None of these have convinced you.
I believe that you are a very good man (in human standards) who has accepted an agnostic point of view of religion. I pretty much understand your point of view. Also, the Bible understands your point of view.
I feel privileged to be able to have a discussion with you (partly because of your military service).
Since you are honestly skeptical of Christianity, I believe that God might convince you to return. However, God always does things on His terms, not man's terms.
I have given my best shot at trying to convince you. However, I still have my most powerful "weapon" left. I will continue to pray for you.

InfraBlue
 
  4  
Reply Thu 15 Oct, 2020 10:03 pm
@NealNealNeal,
NealNealNeal wrote:

Jasper provided philosophical proof for God.

Where was that, exactly?
Jasper10
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 16 Oct, 2020 02:05 am
@InfraBlue,
The WORD of God is mentioned in the bible. The bible says the WORD of God is perfect. I am struggling to find fault with it.

John 1:1

Some people argue for the God of the bible some people argue against the God of the bible.

Some people sit on the fence but are more convinced that it is not worth arguing for the God of the bible because he is responsible for all atrocities throughout history.

It COULD also be said that the devil would argue that way wouldn't he or at least get his puppets to do it for him ...that way he might not get found out that he's responsible for all atrocities throughout history.

Keep the balance.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Oct, 2020 04:35 am
@NealNealNeal,
NealNealNeal wrote:

Frank,
I believe that Leadfoot is incorrect about your personal motives. I think you came to the conclusion that Christianity is silly. That is why I quoted the verse.
Jasper provided philosophical proof for God. I assume that you studied Christian Apologetics. I provided testimony about my personal relationship with God. None of these have convinced you.
I believe that you are a very good man (in human standards) who has accepted an agnostic point of view of religion. I pretty much understand your point of view. Also, the Bible understands your point of view.
I feel privileged to be able to have a discussion with you (partly because of your military service).
Since you are honestly skeptical of Christianity, I believe that God might convince you to return. However, God always does things on His terms, not man's terms.
I have given my best shot at trying to convince you. However, I still have my most powerful "weapon" left. I will continue to pray for you.




Neal, I am versed in (and have engaged in) Christian apologetics on a scale at least as great as yours. I understand religion...and the arguments you are making.

You are convinced that your blind guesses about the true nature of the REALITY of existence are correct. Your blind guesses are that a creator GOD has dominion over everything...and that we humans must love, respect, and worship this GOD. Your blind guesses are that the GOD is pleased or offended by various human conduct...and will reward that which pleases it and punish that which offends it.

Nothing whatever wrong with those blind guesses. They may even be correct...although there is no way for any of us to KNOW if they are or not.

Your insistence that the ARE CORRECT is an absurdity...but considering the parts of your blind guesses that deal with reward and punishment, totally understandable.

Go for it.

I will stick with:

I do not know if gods exist or not;
I see no reason to suspect gods CANNOT EXIST (that the existence of gods is impossible);
I see no reason to suspect that gods MUST EXIST (that at least one god is needed to explain existence);
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction...

...so I don't.


If there is a god that would punish me for being truthful about that...and reward people who pretend to have a position other than that...

...the god is not worthy of worship. That kind of god would not be worthy of love; it would not be worthy of "like." Even tolerating that kind of god would be an insult to any god that actually exists.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 16 Oct, 2020 04:37 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

NealNealNeal wrote:

Jasper provided philosophical proof for God.

Where was that, exactly?



There are no proofs for any gods...not philosophical or otherwise.

I would hope Neal realizes that, but the influence of the "reward and punishment" weighs heavily.
0 Replies
 
justaguy2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Oct, 2020 06:00 am
@Jasper10,
It isn't me that "doesn't understand"... that's most certainly YOU - pretty much everything you've been told so far, that is...

Although, the lack of intelligence on this forum is hardly surprising to say the least...
Jasper10
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 16 Oct, 2020 06:10 am
@justaguy2,
What do you understand?
0 Replies
 
NealNealNeal
 
  0  
Reply Fri 16 Oct, 2020 07:15 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

NealNealNeal wrote:

Jasper provided philosophical proof for God.

Where was that, exactly?

Pascal's Wager. It would also include the , Ontological Argument and other arguments for the existence of God.
 

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