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How can we be sure that all religions are wrong?

Forums: Religion, Philosophy, Psychology, Humor, Fact Is True
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 16 Aug, 2013 03:30 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

igm wrote:
Do you feel yours is one of the most peaceful religions, neo? If so why do you think that is?
I'm sure there are others whose members would rather go to prison before taking up arms. But we have brothers in Eritrea and South Korea currently serving time. In WWII Germany, many died in concentration camps rather than do anything to advance the war effort, including working in munitions factories. All some had to do for their freedom was to 'Heil Hitler'

Always? No. My son in law, a baptized brother, decided to join the navy back in '95. Basically, he stopped being a Witness. He is no longer counted as a member.


All religions seem to share that trait, Neo. The moment they do something considered "bad"...they no longer count.

I am no more comfortable with a JW as a neighbor than I am with someone from another religion...or someone with no religion. I am no more uncomfortable either.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Fri 16 Aug, 2013 04:36 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I am no more comfortable with a JW as a neighbor than I am with someone from another religion...or someone with no religion. I am no more uncomfortable either.


How comfortable would you feel with spendius and his ideology living next door to you?
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sat 17 Aug, 2013 04:17 am
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:
I am no more comfortable with a JW as a neighbor than I am with someone from another religion...or someone with no religion. I am no more uncomfortable either.


How comfortable would you feel with spendius and his ideology living next door to you?


No problem at all. I suspect Spendius and I could share a brew or two...and enjoy it.
0 Replies
 
anonymously99stwin
 
  1  
Sat 11 Jan, 2014 07:10 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
How can we be sure that all religions are wrong?


I wonder where that question came from.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Sat 11 Jan, 2014 08:10 pm
It is my belief that all religions are wrong regarding the superstitions they endorse, but that many are right regarding their mystical foundations. These "subsystems" of world religions like Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, Judaism are best known as zen, vipassana, sufi, vendanta, kabala and others that reflect insight and wisdom rather than supernatural and magical formulae.
It grieves me that some of us consider them of no more benefit than blind guesses.
anonymously99stwin
 
  1  
Sat 11 Jan, 2014 08:20 pm
@JLNobody,
In other words. They're not exactly wrong.

Then again I feel it doesn't ((really)) matter. This may be my depressed state of mind speaking.
JLNobody
 
  1  
Sat 11 Jan, 2014 10:56 pm
@anonymously99stwin,
They are neither totally right nor totally wrong as if they were monolithic entities. Most religions are split by the significant division between fundamentalism and mysticism. The problem seems to be in the failure of many people to understand the meaning of valid mysticism--the perennial philosophy (Aldous Huxley).
anonymously99stwin
 
  1  
Sat 11 Jan, 2014 11:07 pm
@JLNobody,
I've never really tried to expand my knowledge.
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Sun 12 Jan, 2014 03:45 am
@anonymously99stwin,
Why knowledge is good. Our own mentality of belief is right as we are our own person, without influence our thoughts are ours and in that , right.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 12 Jan, 2014 08:12 am
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:

It is my belief that all religions are wrong regarding the superstitions they endorse, but that many are right regarding their mystical foundations. These "subsystems" of world religions like Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, Judaism are best known as zen, vipassana, sufi, vendanta, kabala and others that reflect insight and wisdom rather than supernatural and magical formulae.
It grieves me that some of us consider them of no more benefit than blind guesses.


I can understand that. If you finally came to grips with the fact that many of your "beliefs" are nothing more than blind guesses...it would disturb you mightily.
JLNobody
 
  4  
Mon 13 Jan, 2014 10:10 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank, I repeat: I do not see my or your constructions and choices to be based on arbitrary (flip a coin) "blind" guesses. Right or wrong they are usually based on intuitions or insights reflecting experience or personality and cognitive style. This "arbitrariness" that you attribute to guesswork is why I have difficulty going along with your central thesis. However your other key notion that all phenomena reflect/express reality, that they are ultimately real (i.e., even mirages are real mirages) is not arbitrary as far as I can "see", and I tend to share it. But it is much more than an arbitrary guess; it is an insight--even though not all insights are absolutely defensible.
Frank Apisa
 
  -1  
Mon 13 Jan, 2014 11:01 am
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:

Frank, I repeat: I do not see my or your constructions and choices to be based on arbitrary (flip a coin) "blind" guesses. Right or wrong they are usually based on intuitions or insights reflecting experience or personality and cognitive style. This "arbitrariness" that you attribute to guesswork is why I have difficulty going along with your central thesis. However your other key notion that all phenomena reflect/express reality, that they are ultimately real (i.e., even mirages are real mirages) is not arbitrary as far as I can "see", and I tend to share it. But it is much more than an arbitrary guess; it is an insight--even though not all insights are absolutely defensible.



I appreciate what you are saying, JL...but on the Ultimate Questions of REALITY...damn near everything I've ever heard expressed as a "belief"...appears to be a blind guess.

Is there a GOD? "Yes, I believe there is"...appears to be A BLIND GUESS. I am certainly willing to listen to the evidence that would make that more than just a blind guess.

Are there no gods? "I believe there are no gods"...IS A BLIND GUESS.

Is what we refer to as the "physical universe"...actually an illusion? Both "yes" and "no"...appear to be blind guesses. I am certainly willing to listen to the evidence that would make either more than just a blind guess.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Mon 13 Jan, 2014 11:21 am
@JLNobody,
Well put ! I was waiting for Frank's predictable reply.
In essence the phrase "blind guesses" should be confined to the sphere of gamboling, or at least to situations where there is an expectancy of definite observable outcome. It has absolutely no application to paradigmatic thinking where no distinct agreed "evidence" is likely to be forthcoming, and where such paradigms have extensive functional socio-cultural linkages in addition to their psychological aspects.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 13 Jan, 2014 11:59 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

Well put ! I was waiting for Frank's predictable reply.
In essence the phrase "blind guesses" should be confined to the sphere of gamboling, or at least to situations where there is an expectancy of definite observable outcome. It has absolutely no application to paradigmatic thinking where no distinct agreed "evidence" is likely to be forthcoming, and where such paradigms have extensive functional socio-cultural linkages in addition to their psychological aspects.


Oh, get over yourself, Fresco.

Explain to me how "There are no gods" is anything but a blind guess?
anonymously99stwin
 
  1  
Mon 13 Jan, 2014 12:28 pm
@Frank Apisa,
It is stated more as a 'fact', yes?

Personally I don't know, wouldn't know first hand as to whether there is a god, that there are gods, - esses, angels, etc.

You, anyone [persoanally] can't call me a believer. And since I can't believe a doubt I have to refer to myself as a non believer.

Anyone, anyone. Who has doubt, is doubtful, allows doubt to consume them, else similar to is firmly a non believer.

I thinking to myself I need to make this point this fact well understood.

Quote:
"Anyone, anyone. Who has doubt, is doubtful, allows doubt to consume them, else similar to is firmly a non believer."


Quote:
"Anyone, anyone. Who has doubt, is doubtful, allows doubt to consume them, else similar to is firmly a non believer."


Blame this situation on the rain guys.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Mon 13 Jan, 2014 12:37 pm
@anonymously99stwin,
anonymously99stwin wrote:

It is stated more as a 'fact', yes?

Personally I don't know, wouldn't know first hand as to whether there is a god, that there are gods, - esses, angels, etc.

You, anyone [persoanally] can't call me a believer. And since I can't believe a doubt I have to refer to myself as a non believer.

Anyone, anyone. Who has doubt, is doubtful, allows doubt to consume them, else similar to is firmly a non believer.

I thinking to myself I need to make this point this fact well understood.

Quote:
"Anyone, anyone. Who has doubt, is doubtful, allows doubt to consume them, else similar to is firmly a non believer."


Quote:
"Anyone, anyone. Who has doubt, is doubtful, allows doubt to consume them, else similar to is firmly a non believer."


Blame this situation on the rain guys.


I have lots of doubts...I cannot conceive of thinking of my doubts as "consuming me"...and I am not sure of the point you were making with so much attempted significance.
anonymously99stwin
 
  1  
Mon 13 Jan, 2014 01:46 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Quote:
anonymously99stwin wrote:

It is stated more as a 'fact', yes? 

Personally I don't know, wouldn't know first hand as to whether there is a god, that there are gods, - esses, angels, etc. 

You, anyone [persoanally] can't call me a believer. And since I can't believe a doubt I have to refer to myself as a non believer. 

Anyone, anyone. Who has doubt, is doubtful, allows doubt to consume them, else similar to is firmly a non believer.

I thinking to myself I need to make this point this fact well understood.

Quote:
"Anyone, anyone. Who has doubt, is doubtful, allows doubt to consume them, else similar to is firmly a non believer."


Quote:
"Anyone, anyone. Who has doubt, is doubtful, allows doubt to consume them, else similar to is firmly a non believer."


Blame the rain guys.

Frank Apisa: I have lots of doubts...I cannot conceive of thinking of my doubts as "consuming me"...and I am not sure of the point you were making with so much attempted significance.


You make me smile Frank Apisa.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  2  
Mon 13 Jan, 2014 01:55 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Explain to me how "There are no gods" is anything but a blind guess?

State what might constitute the universally definitive "evidence" for "the existence of a god". You can't and nor can anybody else !
The consequence is that the statement "God exists" is absolutely correct for believers with or without what they might consider to be "evidence". The corollary "there are no gods for atheists" is absolutely correct for those have no requirement for the concept of a nebulous divinity." Guessing" does not come into it and no amount of vacuous wittering about "the true nature of reality" which is even more nebulous than "a God concept" is going to allow for the word "guess" to be appropriate. You are stuck in an infinite regress of vacuous semantic platitudes.


timur
 
  1  
Mon 13 Jan, 2014 02:01 pm
@fresco,
Franck cannot understand this simple statement:

"I have neither use nor need for gods"..
anonymously99stwin
 
  1  
Mon 13 Jan, 2014 02:04 pm
@fresco,
Fresco. How would you feel if I said I believed you have a golden halo hovering above your head and a red tail with an arrow at the end attached to your rear end?
 

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