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What are your views on the steriods, Hall Of Fame debate?

 
 
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2012 01:20 am
Does anyone believe that there should be exceptions for what many call great players before/after steriods? Like Roger "needle-in-the-ass" Clemens? Or Barry, "So-much-Creme-I-now-have-sexual-disfunction-but-never-knew-what-I was-taking-but-am-a-superstar-professional"?

Or is it one strike and your out, though it was not banned at that point?
 
Region Philbis
 
  4  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2012 05:22 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,

the cheaters will not get in, as long as the so-called "character clause" stays in effect...
Quote:
Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship,
character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.
(source)
joefromchicago
 
  6  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2012 11:02 am
@Region Philbis,
I think it has more to do with a player's integrity than his character. There are a lot of players in the H of F who are/were complete bastards -- Ty Cobb being only the most prominent. There are drunks (Mickey Mantle, Rabbit Maranville, Pete Alexander), racists (Cap Anson, Kenesaw Mountain Landis), drug users (Fergie Jenkins), sex criminals (Kirby Puckett), gamblers (Rogers Hornsby), and even players who employed questionable tactics on the field (John McGraw, Phil Niekro, Don Sutton). The H of F ain't no boy scout troop.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2012 12:09 pm
@Region Philbis,
Thanks for showing me this mate...
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2012 12:15 pm
@joefromchicago,
You are absolutley correct mate...And I have to say I did not even think about it like that...And why I am glad I even decided to ask the question...

I did know much about many of those players...Especially how dirty of a player Cobb actually was...

2 great posts deserve 2 votes up!

Thanks for the replies...

If you guys are interested in fantasy baseball I will create a league next year, and I would love if you 2 personally joined...And feel privaleged...And I would not mind in hearing what you think certain categories and points should be worth if you would like to join...

If not that is cool...But if you are, just rememeber this post
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2012 12:41 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
I think RealJohnBoy runs an A2K fantasy baseball league every year. I've never really had much interest in that sort of thing, although I remain the still-undefeated champion of A2K fantasy hockey.
Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2012 12:57 pm
@joefromchicago,
Quote:
I've never really had much interest in that sort of thing
me neither... although i've been known to whisper in jespah's ear when she needs to make a player transaction...
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2012 01:29 pm
@joefromchicago,
I won my hockey league last year as well...Only one I joined...But it was because I drafted Lundqvist...(sp?) and Quick...Who honestly lived and grew up very very close to me...(Quick) And at one point we even lived in the same town...And I lived in the town he went to high school...But I am older than he is and was not in that high school when he was there...although I have cousins who were...

I am upset that hockey could not get a deal done...

Anyways thanks for the reply...

I do tend to watch a lot of sports...at least 2 or 3 hours a day...Or read up on them...

But it could never hurt to hear other intellectuals on sports...So I hope you guys do not mind if I ask your opinions to have another objective view on things?

@Philbis...

I did know that you and Jespah were mates...And I was happy for her last week...!

I was unsure if you had a team in that league though....

My team bombed out...I will be around 6th or so after this week...I made a big mistake in not doing a mock...For my first league...and tried to wing it...with 14 teams...But I am in first in another, and will be around third in another...And should make both brackets...

@both...To be honest mates...I am not sure if I am interested in another A2k league...Because I talked to much in there, more than I ever have...And I think it rubbed people the wrong way...too much of knowing people....And being verbal about things...

Though I think the league was good...And people were cool...And I had fun, besides my team just bombing...

But I think it would be best...
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2012 11:31 pm
@Region Philbis,
Do you think they may eventually get in, since many others with questionable characters got in, Like Joe pointed out? or still a no?

Just for the record, I do not think they should be in...

Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2012 11:34 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
I think each hall of fame should have a cheaters gallery and that they should be inducted into the hall of fame to take residence therein.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2012 11:44 pm
@Robert Gentel,
So they should be inducted based upon performance? But with some sort of asterik or something? Just trying to see if I understand your positions...

Nice to meet you! And finially talk to you!

And I think you have done an amazing job in creating a website like this one...

I think I can only understand alittle in how hard you actually have to work to keep it going...

So thank you very much for all the hard work you do for us! As well as everyone who works with you...Wink
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2012 11:46 pm
@Robert Gentel,
I think I may know this answer...But Do you believe that Pete Rose should be in the HOF?
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2012 11:51 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Nice to meet you too.

XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
So they should be inducted based upon performance? But with some sort of asterik or something? Just trying to see if I understand your positions...


Pretty much. If they were hall-of-fame talents but cheated put them in with the asterisk. That way it doesn't pretend that they didn't exist, nor celebrate them as if the cheating didn't and it just reflects the cold hard reality, permanently. They were really good, they also cheated.
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 Dec, 2012 11:53 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
I don't follow baseball but from what little I know about it I think I would include him with the asterisk too.
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Dec, 2012 12:04 am
@Robert Gentel,
I think this is the best coherent way I have ever heard this explained...And it is how I have felt for a long time, going back and forth between booting them out or letting them in...

But I think you hit the nail on the head...Cause what Joe pointed out can not be disputed, and many of them maybe should not be in there themselves, as in being racist...Or employing questinable tactics...And I am sure every HOFer could be disqualified based upon questionable things they have done that violates the HOF cridentials itself...And then there would be none...However if they get in...But have a blemish...And if it cheapens the fact they have it, they will realize that they are the only ones to blame for it....But they are there, based upon performance itself...

The only problem I have with this would be how to set up a board or panel that extends deeper than the Commish to conclude what would be cheating and worthy of a permant blemish or not...

Do you think a board should be employed to just sit there and watch over players to watch the things that they do? That comes to a final conclusion as to whether a person cheated and deserves a permanat blemish, And that is final? Or do you think it could/should be done in another way?

And one other problem would be that if this board was set up...I am not sure as to the fairness it would be to dive into the pasts of other HOFers who should have blemishes...And would have to operate for the future on...And kinda leave the past alone...

But I still think it makes the most sense...

Because I do not think everyone will understand everything about everyone who may have cheated...Or played questionable...O not...

But it would still be the best solution...im my opinion
0 Replies
 
Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Dec, 2012 06:57 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
Do you think they may eventually get in, since many others with questionable characters got in, Like Joe pointed out? or still a no?
who knows, but baseball has proven to be slow to break from tradition...
0 Replies
 
Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Dec, 2012 06:59 am
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
I think each hall of fame should have a cheaters gallery and that they should be inducted into the hall of fame to take residence therein.
... a veritable Hall of Shame?
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Tue 4 Dec, 2012 07:20 am
sports halls of fame should only be for amateur athletes

any professional paid athlete should simply be employee of the month
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Dec, 2012 07:25 am
@Robert Gentel,
I like the idea of a separate room called the Cheaters' Hall where those who broke the rules can be inducted (likely to their perpetual shame) along with a review of what they did and the negative impact it had. Now you have a place for the Black Sox and Pete Rose as well as all those dopers.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Tue 4 Dec, 2012 07:33 am
There's already an asterisk on the careers of guys like Barry Bonds and Pete Rose -- it's their exclusion from the Hall of Fame. After all, it's not like their statistics disappear if they're not inducted. Rose is still the all-time hits leader and Bonds is still the home run leader, regardless of whether they ever enter the Hall. Excluding them is one of the few ways that organized baseball can demonstrate its disapproval of their actions. MLB isn't like soccer or the NCAA, where it can deduct wins from a team's record or prohibit a team from playing in the post-season to punish it for cheating.
0 Replies
 
 

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