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Why There Cannot Be Peace Between Israel and the Palestinians

 
 
mysteryman
 
  0  
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2012 07:46 pm
@JTT,
OK,lets...
Chairman Mao, from 1949 to 1969, as many as 78 million people

For more, look here...
http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html

You will notice that only 2 American Presidents are on that list, and not every president since the country was formed, like you claim should be.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Wed 12 Dec, 2012 07:49 pm
@mysteryman,
And still you attempt to persuade the jackal that it should not pick the meat off of a dead carcass.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Dec, 2012 08:27 pm
Why There Cannot Be Peace Between Israel and the Palestinians

Do you think it could just be that reality sucks?


oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2012 01:58 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
The Army Staff appointed to small group of officers to begin compiling the records shortly after Seymour Hersh’s expose on the My Lai massacre in late 1969. “We were following the president’s orders,” explained Jared Schopper, an aide to Gen. William Westmoreland when he served as Army chief of staff.

The White House wanted to know about any other potential scandals in the offing and to keep the Army “off the front page.” So the Army Staff set up a system to collect and monitor war crimes allegations that surfaced at CID, in congressional correspondence, in the media or at public forums. Schopper said they wanted to make sure the Army could say that every allegation was investigated as required under the Geneva Conventions. I asked Schopper what came of the investigations. “Generally no action was taken,” he said.


I support prosecuting war crimes committed by US soldiers, so long as war crimes against the US are also prosecuted.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2012 01:59 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:
If we were to apply your reasoning to say the Israel Palestinian problem would you think that it would be moral if say the Palestinians had nuclear power and dropped a couple of nuclear bombs on Israel military targets? 2 nuclear weapons in Israel, What would that be like?

The Palestinians have been occupied and have been losing land, is this not a time of war for them and if they take out, "say the airstrips that the planes take of from Israel which bomb them, would this be immoral on their part?


The Palestinians are not being occupied. They were given autonomy back in the 1990s when people foolishly believed they were interested in peace.

The Palestinians have also not been not losing land. No one has taken away any of the land that has been transferred to their control.

And no, it would not be even remotely moral for the Palestinians to nuke Israel. Keep in mind that the Palestinians are the aggressors in this war. All Israel is doing is defending themselves.

It might be moral for Israel to nuke the Palestinians however. That would be self defense, just like our war against Japan.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2012 02:21 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
no, it would not be even remotely moral for the Palestinians to nuke Israel. Keep in mind that the Palestinians are the aggressors in this war. All Israel is doing is defending themselves.


I do understand your subjective opinion and many people think like you do but does it matter that the Palestinians have a subjective opinion as well?

Tell me something don't you think that the other side most often also sees themselves to be on the moral high ground?
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Sat 15 Dec, 2012 05:21 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
I support prosecuting war crimes committed by US soldiers, so long as war crimes against the US are also prosecuted.


Prosecution for war crimes have to be aimed much higher, at the presidential level on down.
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2012 10:56 am
@oralloy,
We were truly beasts in Nam. We lied our way into a war with a small agrarian country that did nothing to us. We killed over three million people, which was truly Hitlerian. And yet none of our responsible leaders paid any penalty for this.
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2012 11:17 am
@Advocate,
Quote:
We were truly beasts in Nam.


Wouldn't it be nice if Vietnam had been the only place the US was beasts?


Quote:
We lied our way into a war with a small agrarian country that did nothing to us.


Oh, but it did, Advocate. Vietnam committed the grievous sin of wanting to be an independent country. And the US felt, in its usual greedy manner, that it was entitled to steal the wealth of any country on the planet that it could bully.

That's been the history of the US from its terrorist beginnings to now.

Quote:

http://peterslarson.com/2010/12/15/us-bombings-in-laos-1965-1973/

US Bombings in Laos 1965-1973

During the Vietnam War, the US spread combat operations to neighboring Laos. The US secretly waged widespread bombing runs on nearly every corner of the country, as illustrated by the map on the left. Laos experienced more than 30,000 casualties during the bombings, more than 20,000 people have died since bombing ceased in 1974 due to leftover unexploded munitions, and many more tens of thousands were needlessly displaced. A UN report notes that Laos is, per capita, the most bombed country on the planet, with .84 tons of explosives dropped per person from the years 1965 to 1974.

The true extent of the carnage was not known until Clinton declassified military records for the entire Vietnam War. The US military keeps meticulous records of all combat operations, recording the date, precise location, type and number of aircraft and total pounds of explosives dropped. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency’s Office of Humanitarian Demining has been working with the Laotian government to assist in the clean up of leftover landmines and unexploded ordnance. It is estimated that it may take up to 3000 years to clean up all unexploded ordnance in Laos alone.

The U.S. Government spent nearly 17 million dollars every single day to bomb Laos. What it has spent to clean it up, is, as of yet, a pittance (2.7 million a year) and the State Department has reduced this amount even further for 2011. Over 280 million bombs were dropped on Laos. It’s estimated that up to 80 million of them never exploded.

It is through a Laotian demining group that I was able to get a hold of this data set.

...

Conclusions

The Vietnam War is widely perceived as having been an incredible policy blunder. That the American government was unwilling to cut it’s losses and stop early was not only a sign of incredible American arrogance, but has resulted in decades of ruined economies, loss of life, and a series of disastrous South East Asian governments, not the least of which was the brutal regime of the Khmer Rouge. This data set, while historically important, should also serve as a reminder of things to come, as the aftermath of the invasion of Iraq comes to the fore. It’s unfortunate that while the Vietnam war is a part of the daily lives of all Laotians, that it rarely registers on the radar of the average American, and if it does, it’s considered to be a problem exclusive to those who served. While the effects of the war on those who fought in Vietnam cannot be understated, the incredible burden that generations of Laotians will experience cannot be forgotten.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2012 12:25 pm
@JTT,
JTT...I just noticed your signature line:

“The crimes of the U.S. throughout the world have been systematic, constant, clinical, remorseless, and fully documented but nobody talks about them.” ― Harold Pinter

Boy, he sure as Hell did not know you!
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2012 12:30 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
JTT...I just noticed your signature line:


“The crimes of the U.S. throughout the world have been systematic, constant, clinical, remorseless, and fully documented but nobody talks about them.” ― Harold Pinter

Observant fellow that you are, it doesn't surprise me in the least, Frank.

Quote:
Boy, he sure as Hell did not know you!


But he sure as Hell did know of "humans" like you, Frank.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2012 12:41 pm
@JTT,

Quote:

Quote:
Quote:
Boy, he sure as Hell did not know you!



But he sure as Hell did know of "humans" like you, Frank.


I doubt it. I talk and discuss the items often...right here on A2K often.

By the way, considering the quality of your posts, I can understand why you have a signature line like:
Quote:
“The crimes of the U.S. throughout the world have been systematic, constant, clinical, remorseless, and fully documented but nobody talks about them.” ― Harold Pinter


Nobody talks about them???

C'mon, JTT, you can do better than that.
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2012 12:48 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I doubt it. I talk and discuss the items often...right here on A2K often.


"the items" Rolling Eyes

Even with these last two posts, you are trying to parados/apisa the situation.
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2012 12:51 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
JTT...I just noticed your signature line:


But you missed all this??! As I said, "observant guy".

Advocate,
We were truly beasts in Nam.


jtt: Wouldn't it be nice if Vietnam had been the only place the US was beasts?


Advocate:
We lied our way into a war with a small agrarian country that did nothing to us.


jtt: Oh, but it did, Advocate. Vietnam committed the grievous sin of wanting to be an independent country. And the US felt, in its usual greedy manner, that it was entitled to steal the wealth of any country on the planet that it could bully.

That's been the history of the US from its terrorist beginnings to now.

=======================

http://peterslarson.com/2010/12/15/us-bombings-in-laos-1965-1973/

US Bombings in Laos 1965-1973

During the Vietnam War, the US spread combat operations to neighboring Laos. The US secretly waged widespread bombing runs on nearly every corner of the country, as illustrated by the map on the left. Laos experienced more than 30,000 casualties during the bombings, more than 20,000 people have died since bombing ceased in 1974 due to leftover unexploded munitions, and many more tens of thousands were needlessly displaced. A UN report notes that Laos is, per capita, the most bombed country on the planet, with .84 tons of explosives dropped per person from the years 1965 to 1974.

The true extent of the carnage was not known until Clinton declassified military records for the entire Vietnam War. The US military keeps meticulous records of all combat operations, recording the date, precise location, type and number of aircraft and total pounds of explosives dropped. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency’s Office of Humanitarian Demining has been working with the Laotian government to assist in the clean up of leftover landmines and unexploded ordnance. It is estimated that it may take up to 3000 years to clean up all unexploded ordnance in Laos alone.

The U.S. Government spent nearly 17 million dollars every single day to bomb Laos. What it has spent to clean it up, is, as of yet, a pittance (2.7 million a year) and the State Department has reduced this amount even further for 2011. Over 280 million bombs were dropped on Laos. It’s estimated that up to 80 million of them never exploded.

It is through a Laotian demining group that I was able to get a hold of this data set.

...

Conclusions

The Vietnam War is widely perceived as having been an incredible policy blunder. That the American government was unwilling to cut it’s losses and stop early was not only a sign of incredible American arrogance, but has resulted in decades of ruined economies, loss of life, and a series of disastrous South East Asian governments, not the least of which was the brutal regime of the Khmer Rouge. This data set, while historically important, should also serve as a reminder of things to come, as the aftermath of the invasion of Iraq comes to the fore. It’s unfortunate that while the Vietnam war is a part of the daily lives of all Laotians, that it rarely registers on the radar of the average American, and if it does, it’s considered to be a problem exclusive to those who served. While the effects of the war on those who fought in Vietnam cannot be understated, the incredible burden that generations of Laotians will experience cannot be forgotten.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2012 12:53 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5207834)
Quote:
I doubt it. I talk and discuss the items often...right here on A2K often.


"the items"

Even with these last two posts, you are trying to parados/apisa the situation.


Yup...the items Pinter says nobody discusses.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2012 12:53 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5207808)
Quote:
JTT...I just noticed your signature line:



But you missed all this??! As I said, "observant guy".


All what??? Wink
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2012 01:05 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Any time, this time included, that you have "discussed" the evil that the USA has perpetrated upon the poor and innocent of the world, you have attempted to whitewash it, Frank.

But hey, that's how you approach every subject - it's just your fundamentally dishonest approach to everything you discuss.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2012 01:44 pm
@reasoning logic,
One thing that this guy has wrong is that in his analogy with the US and the Native Amricans, the latter are citizens of the US and have all of the rights of citizenship, as well as having certian tribal rights afforded to them. The Palestinians are not citizens of the state of Israel and have restricted rights in the Occupied Territories.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2012 01:56 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5207853)
Any time, this time included, that you have "discussed" the evil that the USA has perpetrated upon the poor and innocent of the world, you have attempted to whitewash it, Frank.


Not sure what you have been reading (or smoking, JTT) but I have never attempted to whitewash anything. The USA has done many, many deplorable things...just as EVERY leading nation has done deplorable things. It goes with the territory. There are things we have done which are reprehensible...for which there are no adequate excuses. And I have NEVER suggested otherwise.

Quote:
But hey, that's how you approach every subject - it's just your fundamentally dishonest approach to everything you discuss.


Please, JTT...stop with the high drama. I am not dishonest...and apparently the reason you are in such high dudgeon is because I will not go over the top like you do in almost every post.

Dream on...you and Pinter.
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2012 02:18 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Not sure what you have been reading


Frank Apisa's fundamentally dishonest posts.

Quote:
The USA has done many, many deplorable things...just as EVERY leading nation has done deplorable things. It goes with the territory. There are things we have done which are reprehensible...for which there are no adequate excuses. And I have NEVER suggested otherwise.


This is a whitewash, Frank. It's all doubletalk. And you've learned your deception well.

You never provide the actual facts. Your attempts at honesty are fatuous in the extreme. What's wrong with providing facts which illustrate just how badly deceived y'all really are.

Quote:
The U.S. Government spent nearly 17 million dollars every single day to bomb Laos. What it has spent to clean it up, is, as of yet, a pittance (2.7 million a year) and the State Department has reduced this amount even further for 2011. Over 280 million bombs were dropped on Laos. It’s estimated that up to 80 million of them never exploded.
[/quote

Consider all the propaganda that went on around the time of [i]The Killing Fields[/i]. All this complete propaganda meant to make the US out to be some heroic country when it was the US government that caused the PolPot/Khmer Rouge genocide that took place in Cambodia.

It was the US government, people YOU voted for, Frank, that was guilty not of "deplorable" things but of crimes against humanity - vicious, cold, calculated crimes against humanity.
 

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