11
   

Why There Cannot Be Peace Between Israel and the Palestinians

 
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2012 01:21 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
They go so far as to say god gave them that land. Who's going to argue against god?


That is what I have been taught as well. I think that many believe that this is true and many Christians support this idea. I will be honest and my understanding of history is very poor so I get many things wrong.
Do you think that it is possible for you to be wrong about this conflict just as I may be? I am not saying that this is accurate history but I thought you might care to check it out for yourself.
I think that your knowledge of economics is better that mine but do you think you have a better understanding of this crises than this intellectual artist does?



cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2012 02:40 pm
@reasoning logic,
Provide more than one credible source on this subject, then I might believe what you have to say.

From Wiki.
Quote:
Land of Israel
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Map showing an interpretation of the borders of the Land of Israel, based on scriptural verses found in Numbers 34 and Ezekiel 47
The Land of Israel (Hebrew: אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל ʼÉreṣ Yiśrāʼēl, Eretz Yisrael) is a name for the territory roughly corresponding to the area encompassed by the Southern Levant (also known in English as Canaan, Palestine, the Promised Land, or simply the Holy Land). The Jewish religious belief that the area is a God-given inheritance of the Jewish people is based on the Torah, especially the books of Genesis and Exodus, as well as the Prophets. According to the Book of Genesis, the land was promised by God to the descendants of Abraham through his son Isaac and to the Israelites, descendants of Jacob, Abraham's grandson. A literal reading of the text suggests that the land promise is (or was at one time) one of the Biblical covenants between God and the Israelites. This belief is not shared by most Christians for whom the entitlement of any one ethnic or religious group to territory in the Middle East is not supported by Scripture. With the exception of Christian Zionists, it is the position of most Christians that the land promises of the Old Covenant were expanded in the New Testament to show the universal dominion of Jesus Christ.[1]
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2012 02:58 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Provide more than one credible source on this subject, then I might believe what you have to say.


I do not want you to believe what I share but rather come to your own understanding, That is why I am here because I do not know the truth or all of the facts about the subject at hand and I hope that I may gain a more in depth understanding on the subject.

Quote:
The Jewish religious belief that the area is a God-given inheritance of the Jewish people is based on the Torah


I certainly do not disagree with that.


cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2012 03:16 pm
@reasoning logic,
rl, If you believe you are "logical," it's very easy to do a Search on almost any topic discussed on a2k.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2012 03:21 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
rl, If you believe you are "logical," it's very easy to do a Search on almost any topic discussed on a2k.


Again I agree and that is what I am doing to one degree or another. I am listening to all point of views and trying to draw my own conclusion.

0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2012 04:25 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

Why should Israel--a state that in order to exist must necessarily discriminate against and oppress the Palestinian peoples--be allowed to exist?


Perhaps, because Christian Europe (much larger than Israel) was allowed to exist in its discrimination and oppression of the Jewish people. I won't even mention that it ended in the Holocaust which is the immediate cause for the modern state of Israel.

Why don't you ask some Europeans if they want to have six million Jewish Israelis emigrate to their respective country?
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2012 04:26 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

The crux of this discrimination and oppression is the state of Israel's insistence that Israel/Palestine belongs to "the Jews" to the detriment of the Palestinian peoples in those lands.


Sort of like Texas belongs to the U.S. and not Mexico.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2012 04:27 pm
@Foofie,
bring them on, i don't care, we've got lots of room in canada
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2012 04:28 pm
@Foofie,
Blaming everything Jews do to the Palestinians will make Jews look like they are always victims. Not a good place to be no matter who you are. Only little people think they are always the victims.

Study some human history; millions more died from their own tyranical leaders than Jews.

0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2012 04:28 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

"Right of return"
The majority of Palestinians weren't even alive when Israel expelled them.
So how do they have a right of return?




I thought they weren't expelled, but left at the request of the advancing Arab armies in 1948. Oops, Israel won, and didn't let those Arabs return. They were being promised on the Arab radio that they would return in two weeks, and would be living in the homes of the vanquished Jews. Well, the best laid plans of mice and Arabs often go astry.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2012 04:29 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Well, there's truth on both sides. Jews are stealing Palestinian lands to create new settlements. That's not only "discrimination," but against international laws, logic, common sense, and just plain unfair.


Perhaps, they learned their ethics from the two-thousand year sojourn in Christian Europe?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2012 04:30 pm
@Foofie,
Israel won what? They're a bigoted country that claims are "democratic." Wake up!

No existing democracy treats any group unequally like Israel does to the Palestinians. They have all grown up!
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2012 04:31 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

They go so far as to say god gave them that land. Who's going to argue against god?


Only a Protestant or Jew. Catholics do not have an open door policy with God, as I'm told.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2012 04:32 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

"Right of return"
The majority of Palestinians weren't even alive when Israel expelled them.
So how do they have a right of return?




Because they, as the descendents of the people who had that right, have that right as well. It’s really a moot question, the only reason you ask it is because the Zionists refuse to comply with their responsibility towards the Palestinian peoples in order to maintain their state “for the Jews.”


Deep in the heart of Texas (clap, clap).
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2012 04:35 pm
@Foofie,
WTF is that supposed to mean?

Quote:
Deep in the heart of Texas (clap, clap).
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2012 04:35 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

So anyone that is a descendant of anyone that was forced off their land has the right to reclaim that land?
I am a direct descendant of people forced off their land in France in the late 1600's.
Does that mean I now have the right of return to go Ans reclaim that land and force the current owners out?


They might think of you as just an American.

The problem with the Palestineans is that they are a group without a country, since only Jordan seems to have incorporated Palestineans into their country? I personally would like the Palestineans to have a state somewhere in Germany. It would be "just desserts," in my opinion.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2012 04:36 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Provide more than one credible source on this subject, then I might believe what you have to say.


Again I do not want anyone to believe what I say because I am not sure that the sources I share a creditable myself. I am not saying that Chris Hedges is creditable because I do not know, maybe you do?

He speaks at 8 minutes into the video
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2012 04:37 pm
@reasoning logic,
Why do you keep pounding the same topic when you've already admitted that the Wiki post proved what was said?

You're a ****'g bore; give it up! You are not "logical" by any sense of that word.
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2012 04:40 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

That's a pretty ironic position for you to take, MM, when one considers that the Israeli claim is based on a "right of return" after almost 2000 years.


However, the "claim is based on a 'right of return'" that was issued by God, not any international law. Perhaps, cosmic law?

But, your point leads to another solution for the Palestineans. They could have a country in Italy, since the Romans were the one's that kicked the Jews out of their homeland 2,000 years ago. That Wailing Wall is witness to it. Just desserts.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2012 04:41 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Unfortunately, the United Staes government does; and, with a very few exceptions, has done since 1947--when Truman had a tough campaign for re-election ahead of him.


That must be because this is a majority Protestant nation. Six million Jews do not swing an election.

I say "Protestant," since Catholicism always considered Jews and Judaism "expendable" now that the world has Jesus Christ. Now that is not a bigoted statement, just the God's honest truth, before John XXlll, and for most people of the Catholic faith even after, in my opinion. Oh, some might want Jews to just assimilate, so whatever their genome has that makes them bright (or have longevity) be incorporated into the general gene pool, but to remain separate is not appreciated, again in my opinion.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Israel's Reality - Discussion by Miller
THE WAR IN GAZA - Discussion by Advocate
Israel's Shame - Discussion by BigEgo
Eye On Israel/Palestine - Discussion by IronLionZion
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 10/10/2024 at 08:24:17