Why There Cannot Be Peace Between Israel and the Palestinians

@oralloy,

Quote:

Anti-Semitism has no place here. The fact that the Palestinians have nullified the Oslo accords does not justify accusing Israel of acting like slave owners.

I prefer to be one who understands the facts than one who believes things without sound evidence. Would you care to share the facts that support your accusations?

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@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

Do you think that your thinking is similar to that of a Dixiecrat?

No. What I do is defend the good guys and the innocent, and generally go around telling the truth.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

No. What I do is defend the good guys and the innocent, and generally go around telling the truth.

Are you suggesting that the Dixiecrats were not the good guys?
They are a majority of your voting party aren't they?

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@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

oralloy wrote:
Anti-Semitism has no place here. The fact that the Palestinians have nullified the Oslo accords does not justify accusing Israel of acting like slave owners.

I prefer to be one who understands the facts than one who believes things without sound evidence. Would you care to share the facts that support your accusations?

I am not sure what part of my statement is supposed to amount to an accusation.

That the Palestinians nullified the Oslo accords, is supported by the fact that the Oslo accords are based on both parties negotiating and not taking unilateral actions. And the Palestinians are now taking unilateral actions.

That "saying Israel is acting like slave owners" is anti-Semitism, is supported by the fact that anti-Semitism is over-the-top false accusations against Jews, and that was an over-the-top false accusation against Jews.

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@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

oralloy wrote:
No. What I do is defend the good guys and the innocent, and generally go around telling the truth.

Are you suggesting that the Dixiecrats were not the good guys?

Yes.

reasoning logic wrote:

They are a majority of your voting party aren't they?

No. They no longer exist.

They left the Democratic Party and voted for Republicans for awhile, even though the Republicans did not share their views, then their racist philosophy sort of died out as time passed them by.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

racist philosophy sort of died out as time passed them by.

One only hopes that you and BillRM don't breed and pass along vitriolic hate and bias against arabs which you two have clearly show here in your talks of slaughtering the Palestinians as Rome did Carthage. Rome also took the remaining populous that weren't killed to enslave them. Is that what you two believe in as well, oralloy and billrm? slavery?

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@RST,

RST wrote:

One only hopes that you and BillRM don't breed and pass along vitriolic hate and bias against arabs which you two have clearly show here in your talks of slaughtering the Palestinians as Rome did Carthage. Rome also took the remaining populous that weren't killed to enslave them. Is that what you two believe in as well, oralloy and billrm? slavery?

I've not said anything about Carthage. I've only talked about bombing the Palestinians when they go on a murder spree, and only to the extent that is necessary to make them end their murder spree.

The peace process is clearly dead, since the Palestinians and the UN have just nullified the Oslo accords, but it shouldn't require too much force to keep the Palestinians pacified right where they are.

And no. I do not support slavery.

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@RST,

Quote:

Rome also took the remaining populous that weren't killed to enslave them. Is that what you two believe in as well, oralloy and billrm? slavery?

Slavery is no longer an economical solution I would suggest instead if it go that far that the survivors of a Carthage type solution be placed on ships and dump somewhere far far away from the middle east.

Lot of places in this world where there is no real government where ships could dump such undesirables on the beaches.

A people who been known to widely celebrated the blowing up of buses full of women and children and fired war rockets at random over the border is not a people that anyone should need to put up with as neighbors.

PS that form of a solution to having a murderous people on your border is hardly new in world history.

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@BillRM,

I have to laugh my head off wondering how all the people here who bleed for the poor Palestinians would feel if they live in a nation that had people across the border who hobby was lobbing rockets at random into their community or who cross the border to blow up buses and other such public places or even now and then machine gun a wedding party or two.

Somehow once they lost a few families members to such barbarians I had a feeling that they would be calling for blood and rightly so in my opinion.

Israel need a man similar to the one we now have on our US 20 dollars bill to help solve the problem.

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@BillRM,

Nobodies here is bleeding for Palestinians, you deluded bigot.
All people with common sense are saying, share the land one way or another.
Abraham had two children. First was Ismael (technically his son) who are the father of the arabs and later had Isaac who are the father of the Israelites. So technically Arabs and Jews are heirs to the land, and in the current conflict should initiate reconciliation in this land in some form that will avoid the least blood shed.

And Jews weren't all that great at holding the hand they inherited in the first place.

>2,000 years ago: Jew exiled

> Arabs conquered 7th century, let the land go to waste and largely abandoned it. never established a state

> Arabs cared little for the land, amd allowed Ottoman to takeover in 1516. They both sold land to Jews

>Around 1800s: very few Arabs. Jews returned, created an economy, Arabs moved in for jobs/services. Arafat Egyptian. Palestinians invented people

> Ottoman fall left stateless land mass. Palestinians got ~25%, Jordan/Gaza/West Bank - no Jews allowed; Jews got ~6.5%, share with 1.2 million Arabs.

With the current atmosphere and hate, what this clearly shows to tell you is that religion is dangerous. All religion does is basically cause hate and war. It creates more trouble than it solves.

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@RST,

Neither the Arabs nor Jews are 'heirs' to that land, as Abraham either didn't exist or was just some dude. It's all bullshit excuses for the same things that every other nation and people have done since the dawn of time, and nobody has a right to get back the land they lost thousands of years ago, based on a made-up story.

Sometimes I can't believe that we live in such an infantile world

Cycloptichorn

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If you go to the Jewish Virtual Library, one of the reasons they list is that "God" gave the land to them. The Abraham bullshit is bad enough without introducing one's imaginary friend into the picture. They also say that it's not true that Jews were absent from Palestine--and then they sidestep that by saying that the Jews have maintained close ties over the last 3700 years. That's a slick bait and switch. They were absent during the Babylonian captivity, and the Romans ran them out over 1800 years ago. But that doesn't count, they maintained close ties. What is saddest is that clowns like Oralloy claim one is repeating "blood libel" and Advocate claims that anyone who criticizes Israel is a "Jew hater" (the exact term he used in addressing me recently). What makes that the saddest thing is that the people of Israel themselves suffer so badly because of the cupidity and greed of the Zionists. It's not just the Palestinians who are victimized by that bunch.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Tell that to the righteous religious nuts here (oralloy and BillRM) who believe Jews have inheritance to the land, because they and other religious fanatics claim that their god gave it them.
I'm just trying to beat them with their own argument that they have supported so far.

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@RST,

Quote:

Tell that to the righteous religious nuts here (oralloy and BillRM) who believe Jews have inheritance to the land, because they and other religious fanatics claim that their god gave it them.

LOL since I am a damn atheist where do you get the idea that I think that god hand out land grants to anyone?

God did not grant half of Mexico to the US either in 1846 but we are keeping the southern states.........LOL one more time..................... Drunk

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@BillRM,

Hello, man with the mexican analogy. Oh I'm sorry, you're the guy who is the same as a religious bigot, you're a racist bigot.
A racist and not worth the time of day. It's your type of thinking that leads to Nazism. By your belief, if one people is superior to another eventually the "superior" ones feel justified in subjugating the other.
Even if you were correct, and you aren't, that some people (Israelis) are inherently superior to others (Arabs), the problem is that these so-called "superior people" invariably use their "superiority" to exploit the others.

You are an irredeemable hypocrite who has set two standards based on race, and consists of blaming the victims of the theft of their lands.
For the record I have nothing against those that practice Judaism. I do have a problem with the policies of Israel against Palestinians- no doubt about it.
I have a problem with racism and apartheid.

I prefer that you be sent into deepest parts of Africa. They won't put up with your crap. After they hear your crap about carthage and slavery, they'll throw you in a pot and eat you. At least then you'll serve some useful purpose.

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@RST,

So now let's see...Africans are cannibals? I better update my understanding of Africa.

Wouldn't you think that BillRM would be indigestible?

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:
I don't believe a peaceful and equitable two state solution is possible. Israeli demands that they alone control all the external borders of a Palestinian state; retain ownership of West Bank territory ilegally taken from the former residents of that land; and retain control of the limited water and air rights and resources of the region are simply not compatable with a fair and equitable solution for two independent states, and more importantly aren't terms the Palestinians are ever likely to accept.

It was hardly illegal for Israel to capture the West Bank. And it is unlikely that Israel would insist on those terms as part of a peace accord, were the Palestinians to ever be willing to make peace.

Israel "captured" the West Bank, Gaza and the Golan Heights during the 1967 war - a military action that was initiated by a preemptive Israeli attack (though the Arab states had done their share to bring the war about). The illegality came when, soon after the war, Israel announced that it would forever control the eastern boundary of the West Bank (along the Jordan valley), thus cutting the entire west Bank off from any independent direct contact with the external world. Israel then went on to control movement across the land, water and air rights, and all elements of the civil society of the West Bank, without giving the population of the land any rights whatsoever, and no voice at all in the action of the government that was controlling their lives Israel abused this power by systematically driving Palestinians off their land to make way for israeli settlements and further isolate the Palestinians in numerous disconnected enclaves in which they could be easily controlled. In short they created a ghetto into which the population was confined, much as the former European oppressors of Jews had done to them. In this action the crimes of the Israelis were every bit as illegal and evil as were the similar crimes inflected on the European Jews by the Nazis.

Thus you are merely evading the obvious legal and moral issue here.

oralloy wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:
Complicating this is the observable fact that Israeli dominance is likely limited in time - the demographic facts won't allow it: the Palestinian population is rising much faster than that in Israel. That factor alone eventually made the survival of the Orange government in Northern Ireland an impossibility, and it will likely dominate the palestinian struggle as well.

A rising Palestinian population will not prevent Israel from remaining the stronger power, or prevent Israel from defending themselves.

History is not with you on this point. The Oppressive Orange government of Northern Ireland was backed up by the Power of the British Empire for three centuries in the face of a growing Irish (Catholic) population in the territory (The British exterminated most of the Irish population in the 17th century when they gave the land to an imported population, but, like Palestine, the opporssed population was much more fertile than its oporessors.) As time passed the Power of the British Empire waned and its willingness to aid its client syate in Northern Ireland was finally exhausted. The same is happening to Israel today in that the popular and political committment of the United States to sustain Israel's growing intransigence and continued oppression is quite obviously waning. Israel's weapons will not be able to save it under these conditions.

oralloy wrote:

And if Israel ever faced a threat that could not be eliminated by the combined forces of the Israeli and US military, Israel could just take care of it by popping off a few atomic shells.

A delusion. Israel is surrounded by people it has oppressed and misused. It's enemies are hundreds of yards away, not thousands of miles. Such an action would start a bloodbath from which Israel is not likely to emerge. Do you really beliece our president means his words when he piously asserts our "unwavering" committment to aid Israel? Do you really believe that most Americans support such a policy?

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@Ragman,

If they are starving and have no other sources and hear his take on slavery, sure, BillRM will make a nice breakfast. Better than eating dirt, I'd imagine.

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@RST,

Quote:

you're the guy who is the same as a religious bigot, you're a racist bigot

So your next theory is that I am some form of a racist instead of a religion nut?

As far as I know the Jewish people and the Palestinians people share the same blood line so how can I be racist against one group over the other that share the same blood line?

I am bigot however toward any group of people that celebrity the blowing up of men, women and children going about their daily lives and I am surely do look down on such a people no matter what their blood line or skin color happen to be.

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@Ragman,

Quote:

Wouldn't you think that BillRM would be indigestible?

I would be very bad for their health as I have too must fat.

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Why There Cannot Be Peace Between Israel and the Palestinians

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