Fiscal Cliff

@firefly,

Quote:

It's time for them to act like adults and remember why they are there.

Don't bother your head about that ff. They know why they are there alright. It is to take the piss out of you gumps at as top dollar a rate as they can manage. It's your constitutional right don't forget.

They are obviously adults. You can tell that just by looking at them.

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@JPB,

I'm not honestly sure of the best possible resolution, but am fairly sure that another postponment, deferral, kicking-the-can-down-the-road again isn't it. It has the advantage of gettin a final agreement into a non election year, but that's only of benefit to Congress.

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@JPB,

Quote:

I'm more convinced than ever that we need a viable independent-driven focus on getting rid of our career politicians.

In favour of shutting down Media are you JP?

Have you seen Huckebee complimenting his audience for enthusiastically clapping his "grand entrance"?

Every week.

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@roger,

I think it's telling that what was supposed to be put in place to "force" Congress to act is meaningless. Someone earlier said they couldn't understand why the Rs signed on to the sequestration plan to begin with when there was so little in it for them. The whole idea was that they were going to regain control of the Senate AND the WH.

I'm at the point where we should let everyone have the rest of the holiday off and then come back on 1/4/12 with an Obama tax cut.

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@spendius,

Ha! No, I can promise you that I've never seen Huckabee complimenting his audience or his grand entrance!

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@JPB,

Quote:

I'm at the point where we should let everyone have the rest of the holiday off and then come back on 1/4/12 with an Obama tax cut.

That may well wind up happening if they get too frustrated tomorrow.

But, I shudder to think of what will happen to the stock market after Tuesday if that happens. It fell all of this past week.

If they kick the can down the road, for another year, they will only look worse.

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@parados,

parados wrote:

Quote:
I believe they would reply that Obama has shown no willingness to reduce government spending or address the long-term health of our still growing entitlements

Which would be a lie since Obama has clearly put an offer on the table that would reduce the cost of future entitlements by changing the inflation adjustment. But I guess it's nitpicking to point out lies.

It turns out you are dead wrong on this point. The altered inflation adjustment was put on the table by Republicans and dismissied out of hand by the Democrats. Senate Majority leader Reid said," it should never have been on the table", dismissing it as a non-starter.

We had an acronym in the Navy for folks like parados, "WEFT" - it refered to how often they were wrong.

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Quote:

Mr. Obama has said that if talks between the Senate leaders break down, he wants the Senate to schedule an up-or-down vote on a narrower measure that would extend only the middle-class tax breaks and unemployment benefits. Mr. Reid said he would schedule such a vote on Monday absent a deal.

Passing such a measure might be the best stop-gap solution--everything else can be hammered out later. Otherwise, everyone's taxes will go up and 2 million people will lose their unemployment benefits. And it's not only unfair, it's outrageous, to make the public--particularly the unemployed-- pay that sort of price for Congressional failure to act.

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I believe there will be no agreement, but that tomorrow the Democrat Senate will pass legislation to further extend unemployment benefits and to exempt those with incomes under $200 0r 250 thousand from tax increasee, perhaps including the scheduled end of the temporary payroll tax reductions for them as well. This is in keeping with the democrat strategy of playing to their grandstand and will in that way enable them to accuse Republicans for a calous disregard for the "middle class". Never mind our mounting debt, our unsustainable entitlkement programs or the health of our economy which ultimately pays for it all.

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@JPB,

JPB wrote:

I see the problem as K-Street and partisan politics driven.

Congress has become a training ground for becoming a career lobbyist.

Even though "the people" could technically vote congress out, "functionally" that no longer happens because of Money and Marketing.

The original intent of how Congress was supposed to work has been corrupted. Until that corruption has been repaired, Congress will never represent the voice of "the people".

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I find myself posting this video in many political discussions, it seems so directly related to (and at the core of) all problems related to Congress...

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@georgeob1,

Yeah, those unsustainable entitlement programs such as the farm subsidies which far and away to to corporate agribusiness, or the subsidies for American shipping companies, or the bloated, larcenous defense industry.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Yeah, those unsustainable entitlement programs such as the farm subsidies which far and away to to corporate agribusiness, or the subsidies for American shipping companies, or the bloated, larcenous defense industry.

Don't forget the US Department of Defense. Biggest unsustainable entitlement program ever. Glad they're finally cutting into it, starting tomorrow.

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@Thomas,

I believe Eisenhower mentioned them more than 50 years ago . . .

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@rosborne979,

rosborne979 wrote:

JPB wrote:
I see the problem as K-Street and partisan politics driven.
Congress has become a training ground for becoming a career lobbyist.

Even though "the people" could technically vote congress out, "functionally" that no longer happens because of Money and Marketing.

The original intent of how Congress was supposed to work has been corrupted. Until that corruption has been repaired, Congress will never represent the voice of "the people".

yes

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@rosborne979,

Quote:

Even though "the people" could technically vote congress out, "functionally" that no longer happens because of Money and Marketing.

That indicates that the problem is with the people, if they are so easily duped by political advertising. Not to mention that a significant number of people don't bother to vote at all.

Members of Congress only serve 2 year terms--they are constantly running for re-election. "The people" can most certainly vote them out--both "technically" and "functionally".

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@firefly,

I disagree that it's a function of being "duped". There's a portion that can be assigned to apathy but the larger portion, imo, is allegiance to party and PRIMARILY allowing the influence of lobbyists to speak on our behalf. The AARP is the voice of the elderly. The Club for Growth, Heritage Foundation, the NRA and Fox News are the voices of conservatives. The Chamber of Commerce is the voice of business. Leftist groups such as Move On and others are starting to come on board and attempt to take over as voices of progressives.

Whenever I hear an elected official make the statement, "<pick one from the list above> needs to be at the table in this discussion" it makes my blood boil. NO, NO, NO, a thousand times NO!!! We do NOT need to allow K-Street lobbyists at the table. Nor do we need elected officials who care less about governing the country than looking at which group is going to finance their next election (or an opponent if they don't toe the proper line).

The system is broken and the sooner we stand up to the political parties and lobbyist groups the better.

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@JPB,

There is no way to stand up to them. It's an "until death us do part" job.

Quote:

The system is broken and the sooner we stand up to the political parties and lobbyist groups the better.

That's just whistling in the dark. It's empty rhetoric with which the large majority agree before going to the travel agents to book a four week cruise around the Orient and then home to a 3000 calorie troughing session, a short nap and then tune into one of the NFL games with a six-pack.

They are doing a fine job it seems to me. 310 million nut-cases are not managed with logic and common sense. Smoke and mirrors are necessary with appropriate incantations.

Like our PM's New Year Message to the nation--"We are heading in the right direction", he said.

How he stops himself laughing is a mystery to me. He hasn't the faintest idea whether we are heading in the right direction. Nobody has.

What's the right direction anyway?

"Don't follow leaders, watch the parking meters."

"The pump don't work 'cos the vandals took the handles."

Bob Dylan.

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@spendius,

I don't disagree with you, spendi. Whistling in the dark, or shouting from the rooftops, or beating one's head against the wall all results in the same end when it's a zero sum game.

That's my goal, actually. To look for ways that don't add up to zero.

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Comment of the day - "Unless you make between S300,000-350,000/yr today's discussions [on Capitol Hill] are meaningless to you." -- Part of a group discussion on Morning Joe.

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