edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2012 11:58 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

We now have the worst lame duck congress in history, and the republicans still don't want to deal? And their holdout is for - reducing taxes for the rich.

They're insane!




You give them that, then they retrench at the next position until they get that, then - etc.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2012 12:23 pm
@edgarblythe,
They already lost that war when Obama won the election, but they still think they have "political" power, because the voters - through their total ignorance - continues to vote them in. Those idiots rate congress at 10%, then continue to vote them in. There's no .......
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2012 12:24 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I am not convinced enough of them have seen the light.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2012 12:29 pm
@edgarblythe,
They're just as blinded by faux "power" as the rich people's greed.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2012 08:22 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
'Control of the House' is based mostly on Gerrymandered districts. The Dems received about a million more votes, in House races, than the GOP did.


And the US is supposed to be a rule of law country, a government of the people, by the people, for the people.

Look, there's a flying pig!
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2012 12:20 am
@cicerone imposter,
Faux power?

I didn't realize the extent to which Obama's re-election intoxicated you.

The House Republicans have a good bit of political power, which every sober Democrat realizes.

Obviously they don't have as much power as the Democrats in DC, but legislation can't make it through Congress without their approval.

I'd say that's pretty damned powerful.

Whether or not they choose to use their power is another issue. If they don't, they will lose the power they have.

You friend edgar doesn't think enough of them have seen the light.

No **** Sherlock.

Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2012 12:55 am
At this point I think the best thing Republicans can do is just cave.

I don't see the necessary grit to grab onto the Balrog and go over the cliff, and any deal that provides tax increases today for promised spending cuts tomorrow is truly a Wimpy bargain, and one of which they should be ashamed.

No matter what happens, we are not going to avoid this cliff and in the process set ourselves on a course that will avoid future precipices.

Kicking the can down the road is the most likely outcome.

Better to rip the band-aid off now; in one stroke.

Americans have become addicted to manna from DC, and they only way an addict can hope to break his foul dependency is to hit rock-bottom.

We're in for tough times, as we would have been even if Romney was elected. He didn't have a magic solution to our profligate spending. At this point, economic growth is methadone, but at least he offered that instead of just more smack.

When you're stupefyingly drunk and the room starts spinning and your gut heaves, you're not going to find real relief by passing out or through a series of small spit-ups. You've got to hang over the bowl and purge your poisoned body.

When a wound on your hand goes septic and narcosis sets in, you won't fare very well by wrapping it up in gauze, taking a couple of Tylenol and having someone tell you it will all be OK. You also won't make it if you don't have the stomach to take off the entire hand, and instead snip of finger segments one at a time.

Unfortunately far too many Americans are selfish enough to allow future generations to pay for their addiction. They want what they want and as long as the Chinese are willing to lend us money, by God, they're going to get it.

Only the delusional think that this track of spending and borrowing is sustainable. There are plenty of Americans who know that it is not, but they don't care as long as it sustains the satisfaction of their desires. They fend off any sense of responsibility with left-wing bullshit about the evils of The Rich.

Let's get it over with.



cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2012 02:04 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
The power they think they have is going to evaporate with the next elections. When they piss off more than half the American People with their stubbornness to fight for more tax breaks for the rich, they've already lost.

Why? Simple; the majority of Americans "want" the rich to pay more taxes.

That's the bottom line - that you seem oblivious about.

When our economy tanks because of their stubbornness, it proves to everybody that they prefer to play politics than live by principles that protects Americans.

Only more stubborn conservatives will continue to vote those idiots into Washington DC, but that's going to be a very small minority. Pocket book issues are most people's primary concern; not politics.

In defense alone, they estimate the loss of jobs to be half a million. You think they're going to voting for conservatives?

spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2012 05:25 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Why? Simple; the majority of Americans "want" the rich to pay more taxes.


But the majority of Americans want free soft beds, no work, free beer and eager libertines. Surely?

Giving majorities what they want is not only revolutionary but the certain road to ruin.

You haven't the faintest idea which political party will best serve your own interests. You only think you have.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2012 06:05 am
And Wall St (who we all know are the true rulers) want certainty and a guarantee that we don't crash because of a debt ceiling debacle. The noose around Boehner's neck is getting a little tighter.

Quote:
President Obama’s attempt to wrest control of the debt limit from Congress is getting quiet praise on Wall Street.

Wall Street groups Friday are wary of weighing in on any specific piece of the White House proposal’s to stave off tax hikes and spending cuts that could trigger a recession. The last thing they want to do is to pick sides in the fight over the “fiscal cliff.”
Yet the financial community has long wanted matters concerning the debt limit to be as routine as possible, and the financial industry recognizes Obama’s proposal could accomplish that goal.

“I think, more than anything, the goal is not to have a repeat of what happened last year ever again. The market uncertainty, the downgrade, everything,” said one financial industry representative who wished to remain anonymous. “Removing the recently established uncertainty over raising it, I think, would go a long way.”
More
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2012 06:15 am
@JPB,
I have long thought Mr Obama to be a tool of the dark forces which move obscurely in the background. People with too much ambition are pliable.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2012 06:26 am
@spendius,
I think he knows where the butter for the bread comes from. Romney was supposed to win. IMO, he took that message from his meetings with WS and CEOs and put it in the kitchen sink of wants along with the wants from various lobbying groups (AARP, the military, the gov't itself) into his proposal. ENORMOUS GIFTS, Romney would say. It's not all going to happen but it's going to fall to Boehner to be the bad guy who has to choose between WS and the many other sets of fingers trying to reach for the loaf of bread. Boehner also knows who pays for the butter.

Could be ambition, could be savvy political genius.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2012 06:58 am
@JPB,
I don't dispute the presence of a high degree of political cunning.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2012 07:29 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
I saw someone else who joined the roll over and play dead mantra. Oh, yeah, it was Rush. So far that cabal includes Krauthammer, Linbaugh, O'Reilly, and a few other folks I mentioned earlier in this thread. I think they were the same people who assured their audience that Romney was really ahead in the polls and would see a slight-to-easy victory. Methinks their collective crystal balls are a bit blurry. No one has a clear lens on the future.

That said, my own view is to agree with you on the selfishness on the part of much of today's society --- in all walks of life. Each group seems to one the other guys to swallow the bitter pill. I'm hopeful for a balanced approach that hits us all. There is no one evil we're battling here.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2012 09:53 am
Geithner is making the rounds of the Sunday morning talk shows. Here's what he's shilling today..

Quote:
“We're prepared to, in a separate process, look at how to strengthen Social Security,” he said on ABC’s This Week. “But not as part of a process to reduce the other deficits the country faces.”
Geithner sounded optimistic on Sunday that both sides could come through with a deal. Talks between the White House and Congress are still in their early stages, but Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, said this week that they were in “a stalemate” over raising tax rates and entitlement spending. Still, Geithner said the “political theatre” could be a sign of progress.

“I actually think that we’re gonna get there,” he said, adding, “Think we’re actually making a little bit of progress, but we’re still some distance apart.”

One of the proposals the Obama administration has floated is giving the White House authority to raise the debt limit with some Congressional checks, an idea originally proposed by Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell during debt ceiling negotiations last year, though McConnell never intended it to be permanent, as the White House is now suggesting.

Geithner said such authority would give the president the ability to “lift the cloud of default over the economy,” while also giving Republicans political cover.

“Congress then has a chance to express its view to disapprove that,” Geithner continued. “It was a very smart way by a senator with impeccable Republican credentials to again, lift this threat, this periodic threat of default in the American economy.”

Geithner echoed Obama’s speech on Friday at a toy factory in Pennsylvania, where he pushed for a Senate-passed bill that extends middle-class tax cuts now so that Congress can separately address raising the rates on the top two percent of Americans.
He said Congressional Republicans were in a difficult position politically, which could hold up negotiations.

“You got to recognize that they're in a very difficult place,” he said. “And they recognize they're gonna have to move on a bunch of things. But they don't know really how to do it yet.”

He added on CNN’s State of the Union, “There's not going to be an agreement without rates going up." Source


emphasis mine. That's the understatement of the millennium to date.
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2012 10:14 am
Quote:
Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.) said Sunday she was "disappointed" with President Obama's proposal to avoid the "fiscal cliff" at the end of the year.
More


Kelly Ayotte --- poster girl for the haters in the Republican party is "disappointed". Somehow her disappointment strikes me as a good thing.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2012 11:12 am
http://i48.tinypic.com/2ugkumx.jpg
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2012 12:13 pm
@JPB,
How does coming through with a deal solve the deficit. Two deals and the US would have a $16 trillion surplus on that principle.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2012 12:36 pm
@spendius,
No one is trying to solve the deficit. This is all just to slow the rate of growth of the deficit and debt and (maybe, someday, if we're all good little boys and girls) bend the curve and actually start paying down our debt. Don't hold your breath.

Bill Kristol in the conservative Weekly Standard.

Quote:
It’s true Republicans still control the House. But this turns out to be at best a mixed blessing. Because they’re in control, House Republicans are supposed to negotiate with the president on the budget and taxes. They’re united in scorning President Obama’s opening proposal. But what’s the GOP proposal for averting the fiscal cliff? There doesn’t seem to be one.

Might it be prudent for Republicans to acquiesce, for now, to a modified version of Obama’s proposal to keep current income tax rates the same for 98 percent of Americans, while also insisting on maintaining the reduced payroll tax rate of the last two years (see “The GOP’s Payroll Tax Opportunity” above) and reversing the dangerous defense sequester? That deal would be doable, wouldn’t wreck the country, and would buy Republicans time to have much needed internal discussion and debates about where to go next.

Nope, can’t be done! There’s a pledge, you see, enforced by a stern and precise pledge-master who would be very, very upset if members of Congress were to have the presumption to unshackle themselves. As our modern-day Angelo (the original can be found in Shakespeare’s Measure for Measure) put it last week, “Everybody who signed the pledge, including Peter King, who tried to weasel out of it, shame on him. .  .  . I hope his wife understands the commitments last a little longer than two years or something.”

Well, perhaps this evidence that their pledge-master has, shall we say, lost some perspective on life will help Republicans think for themselves. After all, surely Republican members of Congress understand there’s something crazy about appearing to fight to the death for a tax code in which Mitt Romney and others pay a 14 percent tax on millions of capital income​—​while silently allowing the payroll tax on labor to go up from 13.3 percent to 15.3 percent for all the working stiffs?

By the way, why isn’t allowing the payroll tax to go up a violation of the pledge? Well, we’re told, that cut was temporary. But weren’t the Bush rate cuts temporary too? Isn’t that why we’re going over the fiscal cliff​—​because we revert to the permanent rates on January 1? No, because apparently in the murky metaphysics of the plutocratic pledge-master, some temporary tax cuts are less temporary than others.

Will Republicans in Congress be successful at finding a way out of their current mess? Who knows. This year, the most well-funded Republican candidate in history, with the most professional campaign, supported by the most sophisticated super-PACs, proved unable to find a path to victory​—​even though such a path was eminently findable. Republicans in Congress are equally capable of winding up on the losing side of the equation. So 2012 could end up a lost year for the GOP.

And 2013? Politics is full of surprises. The Grand Old Party sure seems to be in a grand old mess. But messes can produce moments of opportunity, lemons can be turned into lemonade, and it’s always darkest before the dawn.

Except when it turns pitch black. Source
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2012 12:46 pm
@JPB,
Hate to break this too you, but there are millions of people who don't consider an association with Limbaugh to be the Mark of Cain, and the folks you've referenced can hardly be considered a "cabal."

A lot of smart people predicted a Romney victory. They were, of course wrong, but who is always right? Still giddy with victory Democrats want to make far too much of the erred predictions and, frankly, the Obama win, but that's natural.

In any case, predicting the results of years and years of financial irresponsibility of epic proportions is a whole lot easier than predicting a tight election.
 

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