American Conservatism In 2012 & Beyond

what went wrong?
did Ryan damage his future by hitching his wagon to Romney's failed campaign?
what do the Cons need to do to try and win in 2016?

I attempted a brief post here.

cool

Were I smarter than I am I would have broken it down into a lot of small posts, but I was on a roll.

One of the statements that has been made is how the GOP is at risk of becoming irrelevant by alienating younger voters and the growing minorities with it's social polices when they could be attracting them with their fiscal policies.

I guess that raises the question of whether there will be a schism of fiscal conservatives and social conservatives. I think there is little doubt that a fiscally conservative GOP that is socially liberal can attract a lot of votes they currently aren't getting. The question is whether it would drive the social conservatives away, either from the party or from politics completely.

This seems as good a place to put this anecdote as anywhere.

This morning on local public radio, one of the callers was a woman who stated that for the first time in her life she didn't vote straight GOP. She stated she was fed up with the current GOP and their inability to compromise about anything. If she refused to work unless she got 100% of what she wanted she would never get anything done at her job. She voted for Obama because she saw him at least reaching out in an effort to compromise.

I did find the audio. It is a fascinating listen. It was on the Minnesota Public Radio show "the Daily Circuit" probably about 31 minutes in.
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2012/11/07/daily-circuit-election-results-obama-romney/

It does seem to answer the question that someone (Finn maybe) asked early in the cycle: Who voted for McCain in 2008 would vote for Obama in 2012? He felt no such people would exist.

I don't have any answers, but I do have a question.

I'm happy to make it a new thread if you don't want it here.

Nearly half the voters voted for Romney.

I can't believe that all those people are rabid tea party/anti-science/creationist/health care is communism/rape is gods will etc .

I am wondering what percentage of those voting republican are moderates?

And what has happened to their voices?

The Dems got the Hispanic vote and the Jewish vote.

The Repubs failed to garner the women's votes, especially the single, young ones.

If Obama doesn't turn things around QUICKLY, the Dems will self implode by 2016. The stock market is reflecting its concern about this president's economic views.

The Repubs have got to learn to talk to the women and minorities; not Rush Limbaugh style, either.

You are wrong PUNKEY. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. If unemployment is up, the dollar trading at a discount to the drachma (or whatever they have in Greece), and our Federal Reserve is begging China and Germany to buy our bonds at any price, there will still be people blaming Bush. Most of them will be right here.

Don't let the stock market upset you. It gets emotional, from time to time. Then it settles down and reflects what profits traders can expect in the next 90 to 180 days.

There are basically 2 kinds of Republicans.
The fiscal conservatives who want low taxes and low government regulation and could care less about the social policies or think they won't be extreme enough to worry about.
The social conservatives who are all about abortion, gays, guns, religion or what is often some other single issue. They are so worried the Dems will infringe on their rights that they don't really care that the GOP never seems to implement what they hope will happen.

Maybe I should say there are 3 kinds.
They probably break out as follows. 1/3 fiscal conservatives, 1/3 social conservatives and 1/3 that just vote that way because their parents, grandparents, or neighbors do.

Of course the Dems have the same thing where many people just vote Dem because their parents, grandparents or neighbors do.

Three case studies. My brother is a right wing religious conservative. He will prayerfully vote for the person who is anti-gay, anti-abortion. Somehow he doesn't seem to care much about the poor in his voting (but he does in his personal donations.) My neighbor is a typical bigoted Southerner. He will vote for a white guy first. If two white guys, the one who will not ask him to pay taxes. My boss is a single women in her forties with a very nice income who works her butt off. She things she pays an oppresive tax rate, especially compared to the married with kids folks who have deductions (but she also has all the money she will ever need). She will vote against any tax, any time. She'd vote for equal rights for gays and to protect women's rights but not if it will cost her another dime.

a radio guy i listen too is a pro choice, pro gay marriage guy, but very anti tax and very much against the welfare state, he voted Romney (not his choice for leader), because he felt that the social stuff (abortion and gay marriage) is in no danger and just wanted to get rid of what he sees as Obama's socialist agenda

It has to be the lure of partisanship. It sure isn't voting from self interest.

And therein lies the problem.
You immediately assume that republican = conservative.
That isnt the case at all.
I am a conservative, but I am not now nor have I ever been a republican or a democrat.

I prefer to avoid joining a political party at all, because both major parties have ideas I agree with.

So since this thread is about conservatism and not republicans, I am hoping that true conservatives will finally step up and get rid of the idiots and morons that are trying to pass themselves off as conservatives.
I am talking about the tea party, the religious right, and all the other wacko's that want to call themselves conservative.
Once that is done, then true conservatism will be seen for what it is, an idea that will work.

once upon a time in Canada we had a party called the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada, 20+ years ago (about 10 years after the US) a fringe group of religious off shoots appeared and eventually ate away at the base (one election the PC's won only 2 seats in the Parliament) until the PC Party had to merge with the strongest of the groups The Reform Party, this new group became the Conservative Party of Canada, sadly no longer referring to itself as Progressive

I grew up in a Goldwater Republican household. We voted R because it was stamped into our foreheads. LIke Goldwater, my family noticed that the Christian Right was usurping the message of the fiscal conservative/libertarian leaning Republicans within the party. Most (all?) of my siblings still vote straight R because it's stamped into their foreheads and they don't think the threat of the religious right will ever affect them personally (I don't think they care much about whether it affects anyone else).

Depending on what you'd call a moderate Republican I would say they've either continued voting as always (like my siblings) or have left the Republican party and consider themselves Independents or Dems.

i never knew how my parents voted (still don't know how my mother votes) or my sister or nephews (sort of guess at my sisters choices and one nephew is very facebook vocal about his ideas)

Women voted for Obama in numbers far greater than men voting for Romney (saw this graphic at CNN). Also, Obama benefited from a higher than usual turn-out among younger voters. I don't think the lunatic fringe of the Republicans represents the party in general nor American conservatives in general--they just get more press in a watching a train wreck sort of way. For the Dems to gain in the House and to put up a credible candidate in 2016, they have to be able to continue to get younger voters interested (actually, an unlikely feat for them to pull off) and to keep high support among women; all they need is for there to be a loud "war on women" (a term the Republicans use) wing in the Republican Party. For the Republicans to take over the American political arena, they need to appeal to women effectively (mostly stifle the lunatic fringe) and appeal to younger voters, which would be a much easier task.

The ball is really in their court, and so far, they seem to be saying "ball? what ball?"