31
   

What could possibly go worse for Mitt Romney?

 
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2012 11:12 am
@sozobe,
Hes a stalking horse and a political straw man. The GOP really wants the Senate/Houise/and Supreme Court.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2012 11:40 am
@sozobe,
Is it just me or is Romney in fact making Bush junior look like a Mensa member by comparison?

I know he was born with a sliver spoon in his mouth but he was the CEO of a very successful investment firm as well as being a governor of an important state so how can he be acting in so stupid a manner?
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2012 12:30 pm
@sozobe,
This has been in the low-level buzz for a while. Joe Nation mentioned it here back in August and I was involved in a discussion about it somewhere (maybe within the Romney thread) that I can't find right now. There's certainly something about 2009 that's got him spooked. Zero taxes pd or OVDI could be part of it.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2012 12:51 pm
@JPB,
It is bad enough that they would rather let us immagine all the bad things it could be rather than tell us. I don't care...I have already factored in that Romney is a member in good standing of the corporate class, does not like paying taxes, and will walk every mile legally possible to get out of paying taxes.
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2012 12:55 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
and will walk every mile legally possible to get out of paying taxes.


The point is though that hiding money in Swiss bank accounts is illegal. Even if he was pardoned for it after the fact (amnesty), it's illegal.

JPB, thanks for the references, I hadn't seen it before.

My friend's theory is that the Romney campaign is waiting until October to release his 2011 taxes (which will be fine) so he can say "See! I told you! Fine!" and then between then and election day he stalls requests for the 2009 returns by saying "Gosh guys, give it a break will you, 2010 and 2011 were both FINE" and gets through to election day without 2009 coming out.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2012 01:00 pm
@sozobe,
It is highly unlikely to be an illegal swiss account....a month or so ago I saw a journalism piece claiming that the corporate class shields something on the order of half of the wealth they hold from taxation legally, through holes written into the tax code and advantagious definitions...until and unless I know differerent this is what I am assuming Romney did.
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2012 01:04 pm
@sozobe,
I think the low level buzz stuff will get louder as election day approaches depending on the polls and how good he is at getting his act together on the campaign front. No need to waste shouting for things like his tax returns when he's doing enough damage on his own to move the polls away from him. They'll be plenty of shouting if the race tightens up. Harry Reid didn't waste any time insinuating that he was part of the 47%.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2012 01:04 pm
@hawkeye10,
That's part of my resistance to this idea also -- I don't think Romney's actually that stupid, and I think he really, really wants to be president.

However the fact that Swiss bank accounts are usually stupendously reliable, confidentiality-wise, and a specific thing happened in 2009 that caused them to release 4,000 American names, does make me think this is possible. Not likely, but possible.
boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2012 01:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
...does not like paying taxes, and will walk every mile legally possible to get out of paying taxes.


It sounds like he should love the "47% of Americans that don't pay taxes" since they're so much alike.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  3  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2012 01:55 pm
@JPB,
Thank you for the shout-out. Nobody said much about it then. http://able2know.org/topic/195760-7#post-5079874

Sozobe: The deal is this: Under the OVDI (Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Initiative) you have a choice, it's a Hobson's choice but too bad. You admit that you've been hiding funds from the IRS, you pay the back taxes and a reduced (or no) penalty,,,,,, all without admitting guilt.

(I love rich people's justice. "The corporations, without admitting any liability, will pay an estimated blah-blah dollars... . We would go to jail)

In 2009, they, the IRS, already knows your name and how much you've stashed so you have to fess up AND pay the taxes due on the earnings the funds make thereafter.
OR
be prosecuted..... no one is going to do that.

Here's what interesting to me. IF Romney applied for and got an OVDI in 2009, those funds would then have to appear on his financial disclosure forms and there would a kind of Pig in the Boa Constrictor bump for everyone to see AND we would see that he had avoided being prosecuted for committing a felony taking the OVDI.

Or,,,,,we wouldn't. It is possible that the IRS offered him a deal where the money would show up but no forms alluding to the OVDI would have to be part of his tax return. Just an oops, here's about $45 million dollars I found I put in my other pants pocket. Duh.

Joe(and, omigosh, here's a fistful of blood diamonds.)Nation
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2012 01:59 pm
@sozobe,
I disagree; Romney is stupid politically. Just because he made a lot of money doesn't prove he's smart at anything political - or anything else.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  6  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2012 02:00 pm
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:

I don't think Romney's actually that stupid, and I think he really, really wants to be president.

That's where I've been for months, but I'm coming over to a new place. I think the MJ tape shows his true side, that he really believes he and his are the big deal in this country and the masses are beneath his notice. I've read the entire transcript of that speech of his many times by now. Some parts that don't get as much coverage as the 47% comment:

Romney wrote:
By the way, both my dad and Ann's dad did quite well in their life, but when they came to the end of their lives, and, and passed along inheritances to Ann and to me, we both decided to give it all away. So, I had inherited nothing. Everything that Ann and I have we earned the old-fashioned way, and that's by hard work

He really believes that he did it all on his own without the fantastic backing and connections that come from being the son of a CEO and governor.

Romney wrote:
I say that because there's the percent that's, "Oh, you were born with a silver spoon," you know, "You never had to earn anything," and so forth. And, and frankly, I was born with a silver spoon, which is the greatest gift you could have, which is to get born in America. I'll tell ya, there is—95 percent of life is set up for you if you're born in this country.

He really is ignorant of what the poor and lower middle class face in getting a good education, making ends meet, putting food on the table. He was 95% set up for life. He thinks everyone has those benefits and fails to deliever on their 5%.

Romney wrote:
When I was probably halfway through my career at Bain Consulting, I met with a lawyer to draft a will, and she said, "How do you want to divide what estate you might eventually have?" And I said—I didn't have anything at that point—I said, "I want to divide it equally among my five sons."

He really thinks that he had nothing as the CEO of Bain Capital, a position that he was invited into, risked none of his own capital for and for which he was paid very generously. He had nothing but a few million then.

Romney wrote:
And had he been born of Mexican parents I'd have a better shot at winning this, but he was [audience laughs] unfortunately born of Americans living in Mexico. They'd lived there for a number of years, and, uh, I mean I say that jokingly, but it'd be helpful if they'd been Latino…

Because, you know how immigrants have it sooooo good in this country with the way they get all that preferential treatment.

Romney wrote:
Can you imagine working every day, taking a couple of jobs, saving your money so that your brother could go to—I mean, I would never do that for my brother—that he could go to co…so he went to college

Yes Mitt, a lot of Americans can imagine this even if it blows your mind.

Romney wrote:
Oh, I just, we didn't talk about immigration today. Gosh, I'd love to bring in more legal immigrants that have skill and [unintelligible]. I'd like to staple a green card to every Ph.D. in the world and say, "Come to America, we want you here." Instead, we make it hard for people who get educated here or elsewhere to make this their home. Unless, of course, you have no skill or experience, in which case you're welcome to cross the border and stay here for the rest of your life.

Yeah, don't send me your hard working poor looking for a better life, send me your PhD's. This is really funny because earlier he discussed his wife's grandfather who came over to the US with "no skill or experience" looking for a better life.

No one is making him say this stuff. Maybe he is scoring some minor points with his audience but it really sounds like a bunch of rich guys sitting around laughing at the contempteous riff raff who you have to pretend to like when you're on the campaign trail. It's really stunning how callous they whole thing is when taken as a whole. The whole "he's a smart guy who will say whatever he has to to be President" for me has given way to "he thinks the majority of us are sheep and will swallow whatever line he gives us and if we don't we're too stupid to see how he and his are superior to us."
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2012 02:08 pm
@engineer,
Excellent post, engineer. Romney is about as myopic as any one I've ever seen.

Quote:
Everything that Ann and I have we earned the old-fashioned way, and that's by hard work

Well, except that our parents paid for our college education, our cars and, oh yeah, they bought our first house for us. Furnished.

What? Didn't you do that for your kids? Didn't your parents give you ten million to start your own hedge fund like we did for one of their kids??

Joe(You pikers!!! Don't vote for me!!)Nation
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2012 02:09 pm
@engineer,
Oh I think he's stupid.

I just don't think he's stupid enough to do something illegal that he thinks has a good chance of being found out the year after his first run for president and three years before his second run for president.

I do think he's stupid enough to do something illegal that he thinks has virtually no chance of being found out. That's why the fact that Swiss banks are usually tight-lipped but this one wasn't, in this specific case, strikes me as possibly pertinent.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2012 02:11 pm
@engineer,
Thanks for posting that; I hadn't read the whole transcript.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2012 02:11 pm
@Joe Nation,
Very funny! Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2012 02:13 pm
@sozobe,
It wasn't the bank that was loose lipped. It was a whistle-blowing former employee...

Quote:
Germany has been in the forefront of European pressure on Switzerland to counter tax evasion in recent years.

That was followed by the G20 group of leading economies last year, which forced the Swiss to water down secrecy and bolster cooperation.

"Banking secrecy no longer has a future. It has run its course," German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble told the Saturday edition of Sueddeutsche Zeitung newspaper.

"It is obviously not an easy decision for Switzerland. Banking secrecy is a part of its state tradition," he said. "But international cooperation changes national traditions. Switzerland finds itself in this process of change."

Whistleblowers have amplified the pressure.

Information from a former UBS banker arrested in 2008 formed the backbone of multi-million dollar US government litigation last year that obliged the Swiss bank to hand over details on some 4,500 suspected tax dodging US offshore clients.

And last month, Swiss and French ministers smoothed over a spat over French use of data taken from the Geneva private banking subsidiary of global giant HSBC by a former employee. back story
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2012 02:19 pm
@JPB,
Right... the point is, he would have had good reason to think that no info would emerge from Swiss banks if he squirreled money away in them to avoid paying taxes on that money.

And in 2009, that reasonable assumption turned out to be wrong. The longstanding "state tradition of banking secrecy" changed.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2012 02:20 pm
@sozobe,
How about the Cayman Islands?

***********
Another promise from Romney; make everybody self-sufficient and rich.

HOW? He's missing details on how he's going to accomplish this feat. Does he know there's a world recession?

From Bloomberg.
Quote:
“We want a society in which one person’s success lifts everyone else. The job of government is to create the incentives and opportunities so everyone can become a maker. But too often government wants to take more from Americans so it can make more Americans dependent on government. That’s when we lose our way.”
Romney said today:
“I believe the way to lift people and help people have higher incomes is not to take from some and give to others but to create wealth for all.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Sep, 2012 02:24 pm
@sozobe,
I doubt Romney did anything illegal with his overseas accounts because I think he hired the best lawyers around to make sure he had legal cover. I think Bill's zero taxes in 2009 story is pretty good though. The only reason I think that is not true is that McCain has come out and said Romney paid taxes and McCain is in a position to know.
 

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