15
   

Several People Shot Near the Empire State Building

 
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Aug, 2012 04:00 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
It shows that the guns aren't as hard to aim as oralloy is claiming.


It's a 12 pound trigger.



parados wrote:
It shows that even IF the shooter hits his target there can still be other people injured which fails to support any argument that more armed people would have aimed better and hurt less.


Other people would not have been using a 12 pound trigger.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Aug, 2012 09:19 pm
@oralloy,
If they were nearly impossible to aim they wouldn't have hit their target as many times as they did.

Perhaps you are having problems with the meaning of the word "impossible."
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Aug, 2012 09:20 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:



Other people would not have been using a 12 pound trigger.

And their bullets would have magically stopped after hitting their intended target. Sure. I'll bet you go unicorn hunting too.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 26 Aug, 2012 09:45 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
If they were nearly impossible to aim they wouldn't have hit their target as many times as they did.

Perhaps you are having problems with the meaning of the word "impossible."


The NYPD are required to have a 12 pound trigger on their guns.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Aug, 2012 09:46 pm
@parados,
Quote:
And their bullets would have magically stopped after hitting their intended target. Sure. I'll bet you go unicorn hunting too.


9 mm bullets are not rifle bullets and a human body would either stop or greatly slow such a round down.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sun 26 Aug, 2012 09:46 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
oralloy wrote:
Other people would not have been using a 12 pound trigger.


And their bullets would have magically stopped after hitting their intended target. Sure. I'll bet you go unicorn hunting too.


Nothing magical about it. Hollowpoints are just basic science.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Aug, 2012 09:51 pm
@oralloy,
The NY police are allow to used hollowpoints I find that amazing given the so call thinking of the people in power in that state.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sun 26 Aug, 2012 09:55 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
parados wrote:
And their bullets would have magically stopped after hitting their intended target. Sure. I'll bet you go unicorn hunting too.


9 mm bullets are not rifle bullets and a human body would either stop or greatly slow such a round down.


Well, a 9MM FMJ would probably go right through, if someone were foolish enough to use such rounds.

The use of FMJ rounds is the sort of thing NYC might demand of the NYPD though, not the sort of thing you'd expect ordinary CCW holders to employ.


Also, if the rifle were firing a hunting round, it would likely stop inside someone (doing massive damage in the process), or at least have most of its energy expended by the time it came out the other side.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 26 Aug, 2012 09:57 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
The NY police are allow to used hollowpoints I find that amazing given the so call thinking of the people in power in that state.


I just mused about that in my previous post. It is surprising, given their nonsense about the 12 pound triggers.

New Jersey currently bans hollowpoints for civilians, but the Supreme Court is eventually going to strike that down.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sun 26 Aug, 2012 10:29 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
Also, if the rifle were firing a hunting round, it would likely stop inside someone


I remember reading of one case in the thirties where a gangster wearing a bullet "proof" vest of that time period got hit by a .30-06 fired by a BAR that went through the front of the vest and then the gangster and then through the back of the vest.

The vest to this day is on display at the FBI museum.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 07:34 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

parados wrote:
If they were nearly impossible to aim they wouldn't have hit their target as many times as they did.

Perhaps you are having problems with the meaning of the word "impossible."


The NYPD are required to have a 12 pound trigger on their guns.

Which shows you still have problems with the word "impossible".
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  3  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 07:37 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
And their bullets would have magically stopped after hitting their intended target. Sure. I'll bet you go unicorn hunting too.


9 mm bullets are not rifle bullets and a human body would either stop or greatly slow such a round down.

That must explain why 16 bullets were fired, the target was hit 10 times and yet 9 other people were wounded.
I wonder if you people know the first thing about gun safety sometimes. No, really, the bullet will stop when I want it to just because I want it to.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 07:42 am
@parados,
So nine others people was line up in such a way that the bullets hitting the shooter pass through his body and hit them!!!!!!!!

Give me a break the cops spray and pray and this is the results of their actions of doing so.

Bullets was likely hell surely hitting the sidewalk and walls and dividing with the parts hitting more then one person.
Joe Nation
 
  4  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 08:31 am
You know what would be fun?
Take some of the gun promoters from here out to the open area practice range. There are building entrances and doorways. A street scene like in a movie.

They'd be given paint ball guns with full magazines.
They'd be put in a group of people and told that they were going to be the cops on the beat for about the next two hours.
They'd be told be on guard for trouble.
There be as few as twenty people in the area sometimes, sometimes as many as a hundred. Some with coats, some in shorts, cute girls and fat guys, nuns, nurses, little knots of school kids with their adults, lots of guys in ties, lots of people selling stuff~water, balloons, drinks, popcorn.... .
People would come and go, in and out of the area, sometimes taking pictures, sometimes asking them questions like : "Is there a bathroom around here?" and "Is Macy's in the Empire State Building because my boyfriend says it is."

Occasionally, an argument with break out between some people selling water or umbrellas and our gun promoters will have to step in and calm everybody down. Once in awhile, a balloon gets popped.

After two hours, they get a break for a half hour.

They go back.....about twenty minutes later, one of the water vendor walks up to another one with a five gallon bucket in his hand.
Inside is a paint ball gun with which he shoots the other vendor and then anyone else he can get to.

How many shots will it take the representatives of the pro-gun community to 1)shoot the shooter and 2) how many others will have their colorsplat on them at the end?
~~~
Cops are trained to shoot that 12 pound trigger; they shoot moving targets,not just some piece of paper at the end of a hallway; they have to guess, choose, pick NUN or GUN all the time. Every day.

I think if you want a carry license in NYC you should have to do the above exercise every day until you are able to shoot the shooter without hitting a single other individual.


Joe(and then, have to do it again once every month thereafter)Nation

parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 11:09 am
@BillRM,
Quote:

Give me a break the cops spray and pray and this is the results of their actions of doing so.

Sure. Because they have no training at all. Unlike gun nuts like yourself who train every day and carry magic guns.

How arrogant and obnoxious can you get Bill?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 12:26 pm
@parados,
The results are the results and the police had done similar spray and pray in the past all over the country.

One idiot got away with shooting a citizen in the head after he was handcuff under the claim he meant to used his stun gun to control the man but somehow got his hands of his pistol instead.

The train police officer could not tell the difference between a 9 mm and a stun gun before firing it.
panzade
 
  2  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 12:36 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Classy post. And Oralloy was right on the money; right away.
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  3  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 12:37 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Quote:
Oralloy -- my apologies. Seems you were right; I was dead wrong.


Classy post. And Oralloy was right on the money; right away.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 01:24 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
The results are the results and the police had done similar spray and pray in the past all over the country.

The thing you will find is EVERY trained group will have similar results. The military often kills civilians. Police often shoot bystanders. Criminals shooting at someone often hit innocent bystanders.

For you to argue that somehow civilians will have the ability to shoot better shows a complete disregard for reality.
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 01:36 pm
I've known cops who were on the job, on the street, for sixteen, seventeen years, before they ever had to unholster their weapon. They went to the range every week through those years, they went to the Ops Training sessions.
Did they think they were trained? And I think they were right.

Are the guys who go out ten or twelve times a year to shoot cans off of logs or go to the paintball rink every couple of months, 'trained'? They think so.

Especially the ones who own their own militia uniforms.

Joe(especially those guys)Nation
 

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