South Africa stops West Bank goods being labeled "made in Israel"

@JTT,

Quote:

What does a bollock look like ?

JTT wrote:

Like your head, Om.

U allege that u know how my head appears??????

JTT wrote:

So imagine them side by side hanging in a sack and you've got the look.
Now imagine their capacity for cognitive processes compared to yours
and you've got another match; this one dead on.

If something were dead,
then definitionally, it cannot go "on", as u put it.

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@Foofie,

Quote:

Sorry, Iran has specifically called for wiping Israel off of the map. That is not paranoia

Not pure paranoia, Foofie though you are certainly capable of that. That's propaganda induced paranoia.

And how many times have US politicians ranted about turning Iran into a glass parking lot, Mr I don't do double standards[/i

And what of Netanyahu.

[quote]
Netanyahu announces Israel’s plan to ‘wipe Lebanon from the map’

Lisa Karpova

...

But it’s ironic. There was no fuss or screaming when Netanyahu actually told an interviewer that when Israel is done with them, there will be NO Lebanon on the new world map.

At a news conference in Switzerland, on the occasion of the building an Israeli railway there, the German newspaper Die Zeit interviewed Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu:

“Congratulations Mr. Netanyahu, my first question is that does the beginning of the large train line’s construction confirm the announcement of the dissident Syrian Intelligence Office that you will strike Lebanon?”

In reply, Netanyahu stated:

“Yes, and it is not a secret that it will happen with U.S.-Gulf support and that is why they have been warned, but before you ask, you have a look at the new map of the world and see that there is no nation with this name.”

http://www.infowars.com/netanyahu-announces-future-plan-to-wipe-lebanon-off-the-map/
[/quote]

[quote]"Wiped Off The Map" - The Rumor of the Century

by Arash Norouzi

Across the world, a dangerous rumor has spread that could have catastrophic implications. According to legend, Iran's President has threatened to destroy Israel, or, to quote the misquote, "Israel must be wiped off the map". Contrary to popular belief, this statement was never made, as the following article will prove.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=4527
[/quote]

Now, you're probably thinking that I'm suggesting that the US has never lied about anything, nor are they capable of using massive propaganda to bolster their position.

Perish the thought!

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

So far as I know, no one has pronounced David that way.
If the Hebrews have done so, that is beyond my knowledge.
I know very, very little of their practices.

That the English 'duh', Duhvid.

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@Foofie,

Quote:

Izzy, don't forget that the Displaced Persons (aka, Holocaust survivors) were mucking up the sensitivities of many that really did not want Jews around in their backyard, let alone they going back to their original countries of birth.

That included the US, Foofie. You don't wanna put your faith in those that see you as a strategic military pawn. Remember what Kissinger said about US friends.

“To be an enemy of America can be dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal”.

You might find these interesting. They'll help you get back to a purer form of paranoia.

Quote:

Israeli Deputy PM: Ahmadinejad Didn‘t Actually Say Israel Must Be ’Wiped off the Map’

http://news.yahoo.com/israeli-deputy-pm-ahmadinejad-didn-t-actually-israel-215412630.html

Quote:

The Fact Checker

Did Ahmadinejad really say Israel should be ‘wiped off the map’?
Posted by Glenn Kessler at 06:00 AM ET, 10/05/2011

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/did-ahmadinejad-really-say-israel-should-be-wiped-off-the-map/2011/10/04/gIQABJIKML_blog.html

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

You could use Foofie's logic, and deduce that he just pretends to be concerned about the Israelis, because it's an acceptable way to express his rampant Islamophobia.

How did you decide that I am an Islamophobic? Do you remember the maths number line from positive integers to negative integers, passing thorugh "0"? Just because I have no posititive feelings for Islam, does not mean I have negative feelings for it. I am neutral regarding Islam. The same for Catholicism. I only have positive feelings for Protestantism, since they have developed a culture that puts the greatest value on my family's faith. In effect, I am saying that in my opinion Islam and Catholicism collectively considers Judaism (aka, Jews) EXPENDABLE. So, why would I have any positive feelings for that? No negative feelings, just neutral, since I believe they will annoy enough other folks, so I can have the luxury of having neutral feelings. [In effect, Foofie is "turning the other cheek."]

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@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

in my opinion Islam and Catholicism collectively considers Judaism (aka, Jews) EXPENDABLE.

AS has ben widely noted, yours is the opinion of a fool, or worse.

0 Replies

@Foofie,

I just used your own logic against you. Your definition of anti-Semitism seems to be anyone who isn't slavishly uncritical of Israel.

At the same time you don't seem to have any regard for the human rights of the Palestinians. If you really were neutral regarding Islam, you might have shown some concern for fellow human beings. I've not seen any indication of that whatsoever.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

I just used your own logic against you. Your definition of anti-Semitism seems to be anyone who isn't slavishly uncritical of Israel.

At the same time you don't seem to have any regard for the human rights of the Palestinians. If you really were neutral regarding Islam, you might have shown some concern for fellow human beings. I've not seen any indication of that whatsoever.

You are making assumptions. Just because I empathize with the reality of Jews being a minority in a world of oftentimes hostile Gentiles, does not mean I don't have concerns for the Palestineans. I just believe they are reaping the fruits of their emotional displays of infitada. There is no one in the Middle East to explain to the Arabs that all the sand cannot be yours, considering the Moslems did conquer other sand in North Africa over a millenium ago. And now, a small portion of sand needs to be allocated to Jews, since white Europeans had an emotional display of Jew hatred only 72 years ago.

I wish the Palestineans could understand that living on some sand does not make it yours, since there are other forces in the world that have to be pandered to, such as Jew hating Europeans in 1945 that did not want any Jews that survived WWII to come back to their country of birth.

It really is simple. Please do not make assumptions that just because I have taken the side of Jews in this squabble I have no empathy for the treatment of Palestineans. One is not a necessary conclusion from the other.

And, an I wrong that you do not seem to voice any concern for the Israelis that had so many suicide bombers kill innocent Israelis, all over a little sand. Remember - there is no Palestinean State; however, there is a UN recognized state of Israel. The infitada was just a rebellion against the country that won the last war that was aimed to annihilate them. To the victor goes the spoils; yet, I do empathize with the vanquished.

You should stop communicating to me on these type of topics, since it just an exercise that will proved futile to you. You have your reasons to have chosen your side, and I mine. The good news is that you only help confirm my feelings that the world beyond the U.S. has a short memory for their demented Jew hatred in the mid-20th century. Remember, if the U.S. lost WWII, you would not be writing your posts in English. Would that bother many Brits today?

3 Replies

@Foofie,

You wrote,

Quote:

You are making assumptions. Just because I empathize with the reality of Jews being a minority in a world of oftentimes hostile Gentiles,

You suffer from paranoia, and really don't understand human history of the US.
Your ignorance is your worst enemy.

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@dlowan,

dlowan wrote:

Are the Christian Zionists really a large group of people in the US?

Christian Zionism is an aspect of Evangelical Christianity. The Economist has their numbers at about one third of, or more than one hundred million, Americans.

Quote:

I definitely "get" your number 2..... I think that's where I was until I read more about the issue and the history. we all have the 3's.

This group includes those romantically inclined people that Izzy referred to. They've bought into the religious mythology, the "back to Jerusalem" biblical narrative as historical fact. Most Jews have very little actual "Hebrew" or "Israelite" ancestry, their Judaism coming from converted populations from other areas of the Middle East and other places. Ironically, Zionism is a secular nationalist ideology that bases itself on these religious mythologies.

Quote:

I am intrigued as to the strength of the lobby you refer to....how do they buy votes?

The votes that they buy are US politicians' votes regarding Israeli issues and policies, not the voting public's. The Israel lobby has the capital to bankroll politicians' election campaigns, and anti-candidate ad campaigns.

Quote:

I do wonder if strategic reasons do not have more to do with it for the US though.....ie a staging post for US military intervention in the middle east plus a country which is ready to bomb any power there the US doesn't like, especially if they get nuclear capacity.

My governments seem to be unreasonably pro-Israel come what may as well, and I haven't really worked out why. Our support isn't game-altering of course, as the US's is.

I really think 2 has a lot to do with it.

Strategically, support of Israel is a liability in regard to Middle Eastern politics. Much of the animosity against the US in the Middle East is a consequence of the US' support of the state of Israel. In general, the US doesn't like the powers in that region because these powers don't like Israel and the US' support thereof. The US' support of Israel is largely due to ideological reasons, not geopolitical strategic reasons. Like you said, 2 has a lot to do with it as well as 1.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

I find the figures from the Economist suspect, as well as misleading for other reasons. The figures i have read place the number of self-described evangelicals at about 25% of the population, or about 75,000,000. Furthemore, evangelicals are no more a monolithic group than are all Christians in general. Fnally, not all evangelicals are automatically zionist. The article simply says that "it is safe to say" that there are 100,000,000 evangelicals, but cites no source for that.

So, for example, this Wikipedia article puts the figure at 70-80 million evangelicals, and cites The Institute for the Study of American Evangelicals at Wheaton College. This is the kind of sloppy journalistic pronouncement one more commonly sees in the scientific articles which newspapers and magazines routinely butcher.

At Religious-tolerance-dot-org, there is even more divergent data. Citing the the American Religious Identification Survey 2001, by The Graduate Center of the City University of New York, the article states that Christian affiliation has been steadily declining for decades, that the fastest growing group is the Wiccans ( ! ! ! ) and that the most significant general change is in the "unchurched:"

Quote:

"We are also among the most diverse and the most changing. Often lost amidst the mesmerizing tapestry of faith groups that comprise the American population is also a vast and growing population of those without faith. They adhere to no creed nor choose to affiliate with any religious community. These are the seculars, the unchurched, the people who profess no faith in any religion."

The Barna group, which describes itself as follows:

Quote:

Barna Group is a visionary research and resource company located in Ventura, California. The firm is widely considered to be a leading research organization focused on the intersection of faith and culture. The Barna Group offers a range of customized research, resources and training to serve churches, non-profits, businesses and leaders.

. . . goes even further. According to the article at Religious-tolerance-dot-org, the Barna Groupstates that only 7% percent of adult Americans are evangelicals (which would be fewer than 25,000,000). If you go to that article, the Barna Group criteria are given.

I suspect the Economist is just indulging the "Oh no, the Americans are all religious nut cases" hysteria of which European journalists seem to be so fond.

2 Replies

@Setanta,

The idea that evangelicals have been decreasing in numbers was my general impression until they got involved in politics. It now seems they are the "majority" prophesizing their "right to life," and "marriage is between a man and a woman."

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By the way, one might want to question the methodology or conclusions of CUNY's ARIS study or the Barna Group. That would be legitimate criticism. Sadly, one cannot apply the same standard to the article in theEconomist with it's "it is safe to say" and no cited source.

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@Foofie,

Oh dear Foofie, are you just going to repeat that sad old bollocks that the US single handedly defeated the Germans? It's bullshit and you know it.

As far as making assumptions goes, you were the one who started it by saying that support for Palestine was just an acceptable form of anti-Semitism.

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

Remember, if the U.S. lost WWII, you would not be writing your posts in English. Would that bother many Brits today?

We're not bothered about the really stupid Americans who write stuff like that.

2 Replies

@contrex,

It's a sign he's losing the argument. Like the way Israel apologists casually throw the term anti-Semitism about so they don't have to deal with the criminal behaviour of Israel.

I don't know if you saw the Panorama programme on racism and anti-Semitism on the football terraces in Poland and Ukraine last night. There were a lot of anti-Semites in that, and they hated Moslems every bit as much as they hated Jews.

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Oh dear Foofie, are you just going to repeat that sad old bollocks that the US single handedly defeated the Germans? It's bullshit and you know it...

My point was that without the US help, Germany could have occupied England, and would have never given up the rest of continental Europe. Germany could not have taken Russia, in my opinion, since Russia is too vast for the German supply lines.

I find it interesting that there are Brits that would like to imply that the role of the US could be relegated to being some sort of assistants. The US lost 500,000 in that war. All not in the European theatre; however, whatever was lost in the European theatre should engender a degree of gratitude that is not lessened by claiming the assistance had a finite value. Even if that was true, in my opinion, etiquette would dictate that one allows the US to think it was the hero, so to speak, since it was not about to be occupied by the Germans, as England would have been at some point. Harumph!

It was only because of the Rapproachment in the late 19th century that resulted in the US giving Britain assistance twice in the 20th century. Throughout the greater part of the 19th century, Britain was persona non grata in the minds of many Americans. The Brits were smart to "suck up" to the US to effect the Rapproachment. Somebody knew that Europe was going to have a big war early in the 20th century, in my opinion.

1 Reply

@contrex,

contrex wrote:

We're not bothered about the really stupid Americans who write stuff like that.

En mi opinion quizas usted es payaso.

0 Replies

@Foofie,

You are a moron, by the time you entered the fray the threat of invasion had passed. The Nazis were bogged down in Russia.

Remember we declared war as a matter of principle, and held our nerve in the dark days of 1940 when we stood alone. You entered the war because you were bombed by the Japanese. Big difference.

Instead of expecting gratitude, you should apologise for taking so long.

3 Replies

And Joe Kennedy, US ambassador in London, had ties with Hitler.

2 Replies

South Africa stops West Bank goods being labeled "made in Israel"

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