President Endorses Gay Marriage

sozobe wrote:

Andrew Sullivan's response is up

On a seriously off-topic tangent, I'm astonished that you care what Andrew Sullivan thinks. The last time I paid attention to him, he was your standard-issue, neoconservative dork: Iraq-war-toting, Bush-tax-cut-promoting,liberal-and-Muslim-bashing, Krugman-slandering, reality-denying, fraud-excusing. Are you telling me he has seen the light and started informing his opinions with evidence?

I'm glad he finally got off his rear and said something; but, I'd have been much happier if he had done so a little sooner. Personally, I am sick of him only doing things when pushed up against the wall. He pulled the same stunt on overturning Don't Ask Don't Tell.

So, it's a victory of sorts; however, not something I'd go overboard with since he still hasn't made a push to make equality of all people something which is federally mandated. Until or unless he starts actually doing that, I will see this as nothing more than a political ploy.

Well, let's hope incrementalism works better for Obama's gay-marriage policies than for his economic-stimulus policies. (So far, there isn't even a policy involved in the former, it's just his private opinion as a citizen and family father. ) And thanks for the update on Sullivan.

sozobe wrote:

I think this is the way to do it -- start small, get more people realizing that it's not a big deal, and then gradually work up to the big stuff (like a Supreme Court ruling).

Obama didn't start small, he started by actively opposing gay marriage. Refer to pages 222--224 of The Audacity of Hope: He comes out (sorry!), in no uncertain terms, in favor of civil unions, but against marriage and against adoption. He announces his change of mind precisely when polls indicate that the majority of swing voters now favors gay marriage. Obama isn't "working up to" anything. He's following where swing voters lead him. (I relish the irony when I think of the big deal the 2008 Obama campaign made of Hillary Clinton's 'triangulating'.)

snood wrote:

Opinions and assholes.

Some people's opinion is that others should be systematically discriminated against. I do believe that those people are, indeed, the assholes - and it's my right, nay, DUTY, to point that out.

Cycloptichorn

None of those presidents is running for reelection in 2012, so I don't see how that matters.

Obama's change of mind isn't big news about Obama, it's big(ish) news about American society and its changing norms. Obama has taken the safe position in Audacity of Hope (2006), and he is taking the safe position now. What has changed between 2006 and 2012? Only the location of that safe position. And now that it has, Obama is catching up with it.

It matters because its good to keep expectations in perspective.

The president stressed that this is a personal position, and that he still supports the concept of states deciding the issue on their own.

Thomas, was this the first time you'd heard these things about Obama?