President Endorses Gay Marriage

Yay for Obama.

but hopefully you only have one opinion per issue.

I strongly agree. A mere century ago, the "I can't believe we're discussing this" argument would have cut the other way, against gay marriage, against even decriminalizing gay sex. Laws change as societies learn about their actual effect on the general welfare. The instruments of this change are discussion and voting. So let's not diss discussion.

Clearly, President Obama got the memo and today made history becoming the first sitting president to endorse gay marriage. Suck on that Romney!

Less time than that.

Thomas and Osso,
A very good point, about it being opposite not too long ago. Sometimes I think its important for us "progressives" to not get so far ahead of the parade (read that "full of ourselves") that we can't hear the music.

Andrew Sullivan's response is up -- I keep mentioning him because he's one of the biggest gay marriage boosters out there, and has been for a long time, and has really been mad at Obama about this (as can probably be inferred from the tone of my emails to him). He'd actually calmed down about it recently, but still is very affected by today's developments:

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/05/obama-lets-go-of-fear.html

Stonewall was a - well, the - watershed - 1969.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots

On a seriously off-topic tangent, I'm astonished that you care what Andrew Sullivan thinks. The last time I paid attention to him, he was your standard-issue, neoconservative dork: Iraq-war-toting, Bush-tax-cut-promoting,liberal-and-Muslim-bashing, Krugman-slandering, reality-denying, fraud-excusing. Are you telling me he has seen the light and started informing his opinions with evidence?

I'm glad he finally got off his rear and said something; but, I'd have been much happier if he had done so a little sooner. Personally, I am sick of him only doing things when pushed up against the wall. He pulled the same stunt on overturning Don't Ask Don't Tell.

So, it's a victory of sorts; however, not something I'd go overboard with since he still hasn't made a push to make equality of all people something which is federally mandated. Until or unless he starts actually doing that, I will see this as nothing more than a political ploy.

Yeah, must've been quite a while since you paid attention to him.

I started paying attention in 2006-2007 when I'd just Google "Barack Obama" now and then, and he (Sullivan) kept turning up.

One thing I really like about him is that he is unusually willing to change his mind in the face of evidence (or persuasive arguments).

So, he's thoroughly repudiated his support for the Iraq war, for example.

He's still hot-headed and sometimes leaps to the wrong idea before coming around, but he seems to usually come around, and his blog is a good clearinghouse of political info.

I don't care what he thinks, particularly, in general -- I fairly frequently send him dissenting emails (which he occasionally publishes -- he's posted my emails maybe 5-10 times, but not all of them were dissenting.) But I find his blog a good starting point for general political info, and I do agree with him (mostly) re: gay marriage. (The "mostly" is that he's a bit more revolutionary about it all than I am -- I'm fine with incrementalism as long as it gets the job done in the end. Especially if the incrementalism is likely to work BETTER overall than being revolutionary.)

Well, let's hope incrementalism works better for Obama's gay-marriage policies than for his economic-stimulus policies. (So far, there isn't even a policy involved in the former, it's just his private opinion as a citizen and family father. ) And thanks for the update on Sullivan.

I mean gay marriage in general.

I think this is the way to do it -- start small, get more people realizing that it's not a big deal, and then gradually work up to the big stuff (like a Supreme Court ruling).

Obama didn't start small, he started by actively opposing gay marriage. Refer to pages 222--224 of The Audacity of Hope: He comes out (sorry!), in no uncertain terms, in favor of civil unions, but against marriage and against adoption. He announces his change of mind precisely when polls indicate that the majority of swing voters now favors gay marriage. Obama isn't "working up to" anything. He's following where swing voters lead him. (I relish the irony when I think of the big deal the 2008 Obama campaign made of Hillary Clinton's 'triangulating'.)

Ignored the first part:



Not Obama or his positions, gay marriage in general.

The way to promote gay marriage in general is to initially oppose it? I'm sorry, that sounds a bit contorted to me.

EDIT: Oh, you mean independent of Obama. Got it.

But it is a big deal to many religious people--and that would include many Christians, Jews, and Muslims--they find it directly in violation of religious teachings and beliefs--and that's where the main opposition is coming from. For those people, it's not a civil rights issue, it's a religious/moral issue. And I think it's even a more contentious issue than abortion.

I'm not sure I can see federal recognition in the near future. Particularly not while the Republican party continues to pander to the religious right.

President Obama has always been a friend to my GLBT community. This will be an interesting election year, with the issue of gay rights undoubtedly in the forefront, and two candidates with completely opposing views.

With the President's announcement, it feels really good to be an American today. A Gay American.

I'm seeing a lot of similar sentiments, and that right there makes me pretty happy. Glad he took the stand for that reason.

Some people's opinion is that others should be systematically discriminated against. I do believe that those people are, indeed, the assholes - and it's my right, nay, DUTY, to point that out.

Cycloptichorn