Kerry's war record Vs Bush's

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

McGentrix wrote:

As Commander-in-Chief of all the armed forces, I think both Bushes have handled themselves quite admirably. The times we are living in demand a president who will not be weak against our enemies. Bush II has shown no weakness. Some decry Bush's sending our young-men off to die. I say that he is sending our soldiers off to do their jobs. To protect America and the American way of life. "Speak softly, but carry a big stick". Bush has done just that.

What Bush did or didn't do 30 years ago does not matter a bit to me. He has shown himself to be a man of distinction and a man that has been forced to make many tough decision's. I would not want to be in his position, deciding another man's fate is no easy task. Bush has shown that he is a man of character and faith. He has shown himself to be a true leader of our armed forces.

My God, you are truly unbelievable.....

I couldn't agree with the first paragraph more. The Bush's are good war presidents, certainly much better than JFK and LBJ, who screwed up the wars they fought.

And Clinton, holy cow. He screwed up a little humanitarian mission in Somalia. You really can't improve on the Bush's if you need to fight a war.

It does matter to me what Bush did thirty years ago. To be blunt, Bush in his twenties sounds like a headstrong knucklehead who needed a good kick in the pants every other day. However, he did join the military when it was very unpopular to do so.

I have no doubt that he took casual abuse from hippie jerks just like all of us in uniform did at that time.

Bush did not take some time-serving job in the military either like Gore or Dukakis, but a very demanding job in a dangerous profession: flying tactical jets. Even in peacetime, there is a steady drip of deaths just going out to the range and back. You can get killed just walking away from the jet.

Just being in the military gives you a perspective and values that make you a more effective commander. You are more likely to value the lives of those military people and less likely to think of them as chess pieces in a political game, as Clinton did.

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It does matter to me what Bush did thirty years ago. To be blunt, Bush in his twenties sounds like a headstrong knucklehead who needed a good kick in the pants every other day. However, he did join the military when it was very unpopular to do so. I have no doubt that he took casual abuse from hippie jerks just like all of us in uniform did at that time. Bush did not take some time-serving job in the military either like Gore or Dukakis, but a very demanding job in a dangerous profession: flying tactical jets. Even in peacetime, there is a steady drip of deaths just going out to the range and back. You can get killed just walking away from the jet.

Tantor

The nature of what was blacked out in Bush's records is important because certain legal problems, such as drug or alcohol violations, could have been a basis for denying an applicant entry into the Guard or pilot training. Admission to the Guard and to pilot school was highly competitive at that time, the height of the Vietnam War.

The National Guard cited privacy as the reason for blacking out answers. The full, unmarked records have never been released. Bartlett did not respond Wednesday to a request to release the records with nothing blacked out, which Bush could do as the subject of the records.

Burkett says that the state Guard commander, Maj. Gen. Daniel James III, discussed "cleansing" Bush's military files of embarrassing or incriminating documents in the summer of 1997. At the time, Burkett was a lieutenant colonel and a chief adviser to James. He says he was just outside James' open office door when his boss discussed the records on a speakerphone with Joe Allbaugh, who was then Gov. Bush's chief of staff.

In Burkett's account, Allbaugh told James that Bush's press secretary, Karen Hughes, was preparing a biography and needed information on Bush's military service.

In an interview, Burkett said he recalled Allbaugh's words: "We certainly don't want anything that is embarrassing in there." Burkett said he immediately told two other officers about the conversation and noted it in a daily journal he kept. The two officers, George Conn and Dennis Adams, confirmed to USA TODAY in 2002 that Burkett told them of the conversation within days.

Soon afterward, there was a series of meetings of top commanders at Texas Guard headquarters at Camp Mabry. Bush's records were carried between the base archives and the headquarters building, according to Burkett and the second Guard official, who was there.

The meetings were confirmed in a 2002 interview by USA TODAY with William Leon, who was the state Guard's freedom-of-information officer in the 1990s. He was involved in discussions about what to release. Leon declined to comment on the substance of the meetings except to say, "We were making sure we released it properly and made sure we did it in a timely manner."

Contacted at home Wednesday night, he refused to talk to a reporter. He said: "Don't ever call me again at home. I'll call your publisher and sue you."

Burkett first made his allegation just before the 2000 election, when it was carried on some Internet sites but went largely unreported by mainstream news media. The issue resurfaced Wednesday in the Dallas Morning News as Bush's military record took center stage in the presidential campaign.

Allbaugh, James and the White House denied Burkett's story. As president, Bush has since elevated James to be director of the Air National Guard for the entire country.

In an interview that aired Sunday on NBC's Meet the Press, Bush said he fulfilled his Guard commitment and offered to make his records public. Host Tim Russert asked, "Would you authorize the release of everything to settle this?" Bush replied, "Yes, absolutely."

Since then, White House officials have released only documents concerning whether Bush fulfilled his service obligations. White House statements have not addressed the release of any papers that could show disciplinary actions, medical exams, legal scrapes and the like.

On Tuesday, the White House released pay records from a military archive in Denver that it said showed Bush was paid for at least the minimum training time he was obligated for in 1972 and 1973.

But the records showed only what days he was paid for, not where he was or what duty he performed. Neither did they address outstanding questions about why Bush missed a required physical in 1972, forcing him to stop flying, or what happened during a five-month gap in 1972 when Bush didn't show up for training.

When reporters asked for further evidence Tuesday, Bush press secretary Scott McClellan said, "Obviously, if there's any additional information that came to our attention that was relevant, we would make that information available."

On Wednesday, McClellan said those seeking additional details on Bush's records are "trolling for trash for political gain," and engaging in "gutter politics."

He didn't directly answer a question about why Bush had missed his physical.

And Bartlett said: "The issue is about the president's service in the National Guard. The president said he was committed to releasing any records we have to show that he served."

Contributing: Judy Keen

tantor

If you truly want to discuss, and sharpen your arguments, then lay off the generalizations and ad hominems. Be specific, be polite, and be careful.

I don't recall seeing a lot of these young soldiers taking abuse of any kind from hippies, ....

It's real easy and real stupid to lump all soldiers under the umbrella "baby killer" in times of war, but NO MORE STUPID than generalizing all people as "hippies" who disagreed with a useless stupid war that accomplished nothing but death and division. Oh, and big profits for a handful of war profiteers. Boy that sounds familiar.

Wise up why not and get the chip off your shoulder.

I'm hard pressed to think of something in a Guardsman's records that would be embarassing that would only be in the local Guard office files. Any serious administrative action would be in the Air Force personnel records. You can't sanitize those.

The nature of what was blacked out in Bush's records is important because certain legal problems, such as drug or alcohol violations, could have been a basis for denying an applicant entry into the Guard or pilot training. Admission to the Guard and to pilot school was highly competitive at that time, the height of the Vietnam War.

I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well placed ...
managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units. Of
the many tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal and owe equal allegiance to their country.

Powell's quote is very damning when taken out of context, isn't it? In that quote, Powell is infuriated over the loopholes that the government left open in the draft, not at the individuals who were taking advantage of the loopholes.

McGentrix wrote:

Powell's quote is very damning when taken out of context, isn't it? In that quote, Powell is infuriated over the loopholes that the government left open in the draft, not at the individuals who were taking advantage of the loopholes.

So Powell is infuriated over loopholes that allow people to take advantage of the system, but is not angry with the people who use the infuriating loopholes to take advantage of the system. Now THAT'S the best example of bush inc. style doublespeak I've heard lately. McGentrix, you are to be complimented and will receive an "I Like Bush (As Long As It's Properly Covered) t-shirt.