Eye On Israel/Palestine

Okey Dokey.
I am glad we agree ( I think ) about the fact that ALL countries should be held accountable for their bad deeds.
This is good :wink:

Now, if you could just clarify, with facts and figures, the few items you mention, such as:

Then I might be able to direct you to less biased sources for these imaginative claims.
Please explain what horrendous crimes. Please use any other country or peoples in the world as a barometer of horrendousness. In order for a crime to be "horrendous," it has to fall within a certain scale... Please elucidate.
Please explain the "Jenin Massacre." Please give some numbers as to who was "massacred." Please compare to other similiar actions by other countries and peoples.
Please explain, specifically, the "brutality" of the occupation. Please explain how it is "more brutal" than other countries actions against enemies that have vowed to kill or otherwise destroy them.

The reason I ask for an explanation of these adjectives and massacres is because I am indeed "refuting what basically (you believe to be) a truism among rational non-indoctrinated people."

The statements you have made are false.
Please enlighten me as to why you believe that they are true.

lodp wrote



Crime what crime. Since when is it a crime to retaliate. And to attack the areas where those who commit acts of terror against your citizens are holed up.
Idop wrote
.

The Jenin Massacre was a figment of the Palestinians imagination. It was no massacre. The Israeli's rather than going in and using those Helicopters and bombing the hell out of Jenin chose to go in and search for the terrorists at the expense and loss of life of their soldiers. Of course the Palestinians and their EU allies would not agree. I suppose they are still unhappy that Hitler did not finish the job.
Idop wrote.


As I remember it the Palestinians and the rest of the Arab world have been trying to obliterate the state of Israel for 50,years.. When have they ever made any indication that they were interested in getting along with Israel peacefully.

I would add with the blood of Jews on their hands for over a 1000 years. The Europeans should be the last to pass judgment. Were that not so there would never have been a crying need for the state of Israel.

I spent most of yesterday with friends that flew in from Israel for a wedding. They'd be startled at some of the things people here say in support of Israel.

Any idea, au, why e.g. the UK was in war against Hitler's Germany .... before the USA declared war?

No walter I need you to tell me.

Well, your response would mean that the UK was in war with Hitler Germany although still wanting him to carry on. Just wondering.

Walter.
The war with Hiltler was in no way a response to the killing of the Jews. If that was the only thing that Hitler was about, no one would have lifted a finger.

So, instead of confronting the Nazis and their aims to establish an ethnocentric state in Central Europe, the place of their own births, the Zionists went off to the Middle East to establish an ethnocenric state of their own. Ethnocentrism as a response to ethnocentism. That was not the most constructive of responses to ethnic persecution.

Why didn't the Ashkenazim follow the advice of the greatest freedom fighter of the twentieth cetury, Mahatma Gandhi?

In his own words:


Several letters have been received by me asking me to declare my views about the Arab-Jew question in Palestine and the persecution of the Jews in Germany. It is not without hesitation that I venture to offer my views on this very difficult question.

My sympathies are all with the Jews. I have known them intimately in South Africa. Some of them became life-long companions. Through these friends I came to learn much of their age-long persecution. They have been the untouchables of Christianity. The parallel between their treatment by Christians and the treatment of untouchables by Hindus is very close. Religious sanction has been invoked in both cases for the justification of the inhuman treatment meted out to them. Apart from the friendships, therefore, there is the more common universal reason for my sympathy for the Jews.

But my sympathy does not blind me to the requirements of justice. The cry for the national home for the Jews does not make much appeal to me. The sanction for it is sought in the Bible and the tenacity with which the Jews have hankered after return to Palestine. Why should they not, like other peoples of the earth, make that country their home where they are born and where they earn their livelihood?

Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and inhuman to impose the Jews on the Arabs. What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct. The mandates have no sanction but that of the last war. Surely it would be a crime against humanity to reduce the proud Arabs so that Palestine can be restored to the Jews partly or wholly as their national home.

The nobler course would be to insist on a just treatment of the Jews wherever they are born and bred. The Jews born in France are French. If the Jews have no home but Palestine, will they relish the idea of being forced to leave the other parts of the world in which they are settled? Or do they want a double home where they can remain at will? This cry for the national home affords a colourable justification for the German expulsion of the Jews.

But the German persecution of the Jews seems to have no parallel in history. The tyrants of old never went so mad as Hitler seems to have gone. And he is doing it with religious zeal. For he is propounding a new religion of exclusive and militant nationalism in the name of which any inhumanity becomes an act of humanity to be rewarded here and hereafter. The crime of an obviously mad but intrepid youth is being visited upon his whole race with unbelievable ferocity. If there ever could be a justifiable war in the name of and for humanity, a war against Germany, to prevent the wanton persecution of a whole race, would be completely justified. But I do not believe in any war. A discussion of the pros and cons of such a war is therefore outside my horizon or province.

But if there can be no war against Germany, even for such a crime as is being committed against the Jews, surely there can be no alliance with Germany. How can there be alliance between a nation which claims to stand for justice and democracy and one which is the declared enemy of both? Or is England drifting towards armed dictatorship and all it means?

Germany is showing to the world how efficiently violence can be worked when it is not hampered by any hypocrisy or weakness masquerading as humanitarianism. It is also showing how hideous, terrible and terrifying it looks in its nakedness.

Can the Jews resist this organised and shameless persecution? Is there a way to preserve their self-respect, and not to feel helpless, neglected and forlorn? I submit there is. No person who has faith in a living God need feel helpless or forlorn. Jehovah of the Jews is a God more personal than the God of the Christians, the Mussalmans or the Hindus, though as a matter of fact in essence, He is common to all and one without a second and beyond description. But as the Jews attribute personality to God and believe that He rules every action of theirs, they ought not to feel helpless. If I were a Jew and were born in Germany and earned my livelihood there, I would claim Germany as my home even as the tallest gentile German may, and challenge him to shoot me or cast me in the dungeon; I would refuse to be expelled or to submit to discriminating treatment. And for doing this, I should not wait for the fellow Jews to join me in civil resistance but would have confidence that in the end the rest are bound to follow my example. If one Jew or all the Jews were to accept the prescription here offered, he or they cannot be worse off than now. And suffering voluntarily undergone will bring them an inner strength and joy which no number of resolutions of sympathy passed in the world outside Germany can. Indeed, even if Britain, France and America were to declare hostilities against Germany, they can bring no inner joy, no inner strength. The calculated violence of Hitler may even result in a general massacre of the Jews by way of his first answer to the declaration of such hostilities. But if the Jewish mind could be prepared for voluntary suffering, even the massacre I have imagined could be turned into a day of thanksgiving and joy that Jehovah had wrought deliverance of the race even at the hands of the tyrant. For to the godfearing, death has no terror. It is a joyful sleep to be followed by a waking that would be all the more refreshing for the long sleep.

It is hardly necessary for me to point out that it is easier for the Jews than for the Czechs to follow my prescription. And they have in the Indian satyagraha campaign in South Africa an exact parallel. There the Indians occupied precisely the same place that the Jews occupy in Germany. The persecution had also a religious tinge. President Kruger used to say that the white Christians were the chosen of God and Indians were inferior beings created to serve the whites. A fundamental clause in the Transvaal constitution was that there should be no equality between the whites and coloured races including Asiatics. There too the Indians were consigned to ghettos described as locations. The other disabilities were almost of the same type as those of the Jews in Germany. The Indians, a mere handful, resorted to satyagraha without any backing from the world outside or the Indian Government. Indeed the British officials tried to dissuade the satyagrahis is from their contemplated step. World opinion and the Indian Government came to their aid after eight years of fighting. And that too was by way of diplomatic pressure not of a threat of war.

But the Jews of Germany can offer satyagraha under infinitely better auspices than the Indians of South Africa. The Jews are a compact, homogeneous community in Germany. They are far more gifted than the Indians of South Africa. And they have organised world opinion behind them. I am convinced that if someone with courage and vision can arise among them to lead them in non-violent action, the winter of their despair can in the twinkling of an eye be turned into the summer of hope. And what has today become a degrading man-hunt can be turned into a calm and determined stand offered by unarmed men and women possessing the strength of suffering given to them by Jehovah. It will be then a truly religious resistance offered against the godless fury of dehumanised man. The German Jews will score a lasting victory over the German gentiles in the sense that they will have converted the latter to an appreciation of human dignity. They will have rendered service to fellow-Germans and proved their title to be the real Germans as against those who are today dragging, however unknowingly, the German name into the mire.

And now a word to the Jews in Palestine. I have no doubt that they are going about it in the wrong way. The Palestine of the Biblical conception is not a geographical tract. It is in their hearts. But if they must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs. They should seek to convert the Arab heart. The same God rules the Arab heart who rules the Jewish heart. They can offer satyagraha in front of the Arabs and offer themselves to be shot or thrown into the Dead Sea without raising a little finger against them. They will find the world opinion in their favour in their religious aspiration. There are hundreds of ways of reasoning with the Arabs, if they will only discard the help of the British bayonet. As it is, they are co-shares with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them.

I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regarded as an unwarrantable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds.

Let the Jews who claim to be the chosen race prove their title by choosing the way of non-violence for vindicating their position on earth. Every country is their home including Palestine not by aggression but by loving service. A Jewish friend has sent me a book called The Jewish Contribution to Civilisation by Cecil Roth. It gives a record of what the Jews have done to enrich the world`s literature, art, music, drama, science, medicine, agriculture, etc. Given the will, the Jew can refuse to be treated as the outcaste of the West, to be despised or patronised. He can command the attention and respect of the world by being man, the chosen creation of God, instead of being man who is fast sinking to the brute and forsaken by God. They can add to their many contributions the surpassing contribution of non-violent action.

Segaon, November 20, 1938

Wonderful

This statement can be made with equal veracity about either party in this unhappy struggle between the Arab and the Jewish residents of Palestine.

Silly, silly mon....
The Jews have been trying to obliterate the Arab states for 50 years??

Remarkable.
Or maybe it's the Israelis have been trying to obliterate the Palestinians for 50 years??

Hmmmm.... They have certainly been making very poor use of all of their missiles and guns and tanks and nuclear weapons. I thought the Israelis were supposed to be.... good at warfare.... or intelligent about how to eliminate their enemy..... or simply brutal killers who will stop at nothing....???
They certainly seemed to have fallen down on their mission to obliterate the Palestinians you..., (in the immortal words of Ralphie's dad),... you frickin frazzin gruanded mmhhphhcratzin ratzin mmmmmmmmm.... silly, silly person, you.
Sigh.

And just how have the Israelis or the Jews tried to obliterate the Arabs or the Palestinians?

Just curious.

Two points:
Had Ghandi actually been in the glorious position he claims the Jews ought to pursue, that of non-violence against an enemy that did indeed exterminate them, he would be dead. And we would not have the benefit of his beautiful writings and non-violent leadership as he tried to lead a revolt against a peoples that did not exterminate him.
Dead. He'd be dead, Jim.

Secondly: Whereas Ghandi's use of the language was beautiful, his knowledge of the facts was less sanguine.
The British did not help the Jews enter Palestine "under the shadow of the British gun."
The British tried to prevent the Jews attempting to escape the Holocaust enter Palestine. The British defended their territory against the Jews with their British guns.

Lastly, before WWII and the Nazis, the Jewish settlers in Palestine did indeed "settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs." They did "seek to convert the Arab heart."
As a matter of fact, for the most part, they were welcomed by their Arab neighbors and there was an increase in Arab emigration to where the Jews were creating an new, healthy environment where people could live and prosper.
It was not until the ugly rise of Nazi Fascism that Arabs decided to incoporate this sick philosophy into their Islamic religion and turn against their Jewish neighbors.
At which point, Mr. Ghandi would have also been obliterated had he been in that particular situation.
Non-violence will only work, and has only worked, against a peoples that are civilized and have a conscience.
If Death is glorified and sought over Life, then non-violence is a dead end.

Moishe,

Please don't distort my words. I didn't say what you suggest here

My reference was clearly solely to the government that existed in the areas of Palestine now part of Israel or occupied by Israel. The truth of my statement is evident.

You use a similar device in your reaction to the Ghandi piece.

Ghandi's words were written in 1938, before the Holocaust. His reference to the pre-war protection given by the British was largely accurate. I don't mean to imply here that there was much praiseworthy in the British behavior. They lied to and betrayed both Arabs and Zionists equally.

However awful the behavior and tactics of the Palestinians in defending or advancing (depends on one's point of view) their cause, they are still human beings. The tactics they use, with the sole (and major) exception of suicide bombings, are more or less the same as used by numerous insurgent movements all over the world - including those of the early Zionists in Palestine, even before WWII.

This in various forms has been the rationalization of oppressors in many places for centuries.

I believe we all agree the violence in the Middle East is a great tragedy for both parties in this dispute. The central cause from the beginning was the resolve of the Zionists to have a state only for themselves, with unlimited right for Jewish immigration from anywhere in the world, but no right of return for displaced Palestinians.

Did that article indicate that the persecution by Hitler was unique 1205: Pope Innocent III wrote to the archbishops of Sens and Paris that "the Jews, by their own guilt, are consigned to perpetual servitude because they crucified the Lord...As slaves rejected by God, in whose death they wickedly conspire, they shall by the effect of this very action, recognize themselves as the slaves of those whom Christ's death set free..."
1215: The Fourth Lateran Council approved canon laws requiring that "Jews and Muslims shall wear a special dress." They also had to wear a badge in the form of a ring. This was to enable them to be easily distinguished from Christians. This practice later spread to other countries.
1227:  The Synod of Narbonne required Jews to wear an oval badge. This requirement was reinstalled during the 1930's by Hitler, who changed the oval badge to a Star of David.
1229: The Spanish inquisition starts. Later, in 1252, Pope Innocent IV authorizes the use of torture by the Inquisitors.
1236: Pope Gregory ordered that church leaders in England, France, Portugal and Spain confiscate Jewish books on the first Saturday of Lent. 1
1259: A "synod of the archdiocese in Mainz ordered Jews to wear yellow badges." 1
1261: Duke Henry III of Brabant, Belgium, stated in his will that "Jews...must be expelled from Brabant and totally annihilated so that not a single one remains, except those who are willing to trade, like all other tradesmen, without money-lending and usury." 2
1267: The Synod of Vienna ordered Jews to wear horned hats. Thomas Aquinas said that Jews should live in perpetual servitude.
1290: Jews are exiled from England. About 16,000 left the country.
1298: Jews were persecuted in Austria, Bavaria and Franconia. 140 Jewish communities were destroyed; more than 100,000 Jews were killed over a 6 month period.
1306: 100,000 Jews are exiled from France. They left with only the clothes on their backs, and food for only one day.
1320: 40,000 French shepherds went to Palestine on the Shepherd Crusade. On the way, 140 Jewish communities were destroyed.
1321: In Guienne, France, Jews were accused of having incited criminals to poison wells. 5,000 Jews were burned alive, at the stake.
1338: The councilors of Freiburg banned the performance of anti-Jewish scenes from the town's passion play because of the lethal bloody reactions against Jews which followed the performances. 9
1347 +: Ships from the Far East carried rats into Mediterranean ports. The rats carried the Black Death. At first, fleas spread the disease from the rats to humans. As the plague worsened, the germs spread from human to human. In five years, the death toll had reached 25 million. England took 2 centuries for its population levels to recover from the plague. People looked around for someone to blame. They noted that a smaller percentage of Jews than Christians caught the disease. This was undoubtedly due to the Jewish sanitary and dietary laws, which had been preserved from Old Testament times. Rumors circulated that Satan was protecting the Jews and that they were paying back the Devil by poisoning wells used by Christians. The solution was to torture, murder and burn the Jews. "In Bavaria...12,000 Jews...perished; in the small town of Erfurt...3,000; Rue Brulée...2,000 Jews; near Tours, an immense trench was dug, filled with blazing wood and in a single day 160 Jews were burned." (5) In Strausberg 2,000 Jews were burned. In Maintz 6,000 were killed...; in Worms 400..." 3
1354: 12,000 Jews were executed in Toledo.
1374: An epidemic of possession broke out in the lower Rhine region of what is now Germany. People were seen "dancing, jumping and [engaging in] wild raving." This was triggered by enthusiastic revels on St. John's Day - an Christianized version of an ancient Pagan seasonal day of celebration which was still observed by the populace. The epidemic spread throughout the Rhine and in much of the Netherlands and Germany. Crowds of 500 or more dancers would be overcome together. Exorcisms were tried, but failed. Pilgrimages to the shrine of St. Vitus were tried, but this only seemed to exacerbate the problem. Finally, the rumor spread that God was angry because Christians had been excessively tolerant towards the Jews. God had cursed Europe as He did Saul when he showed mercy towards God's enemies in the Old Testament. Jews "were plundered, tortured and murdered by tens of thousands." The epidemic finally burned itself out two centuries later, in the late 16th century. 4
1391 : Jewish persecutions begin in Seville and in 70 other Jewish communities throughout Spain.
1394 : Jews were exiled, for the second time, from France.
1431 +: The Council of Basel "forbade Jews to go to universities, prohibited them from acting as agents in the conclusion of contracts between Christians, and required that they attend church sermons." 5
1434: "Jewish men in Augsburg had to sew yellow buttons to their clothes. Across Europe, Jews were forced to wear a long undergarment, an overcoat with a yellow patch, bells and tall pointed yellow hats with a large button on them." 1
1453 : The Franciscan monk, Capistrano, persuaded the King of Poland to terminate all Jewish civil rights.
1478: Spanish Jews had been heavily persecuted from the 14th century. Many had converted to Christianity. The Spanish Inquisition was set up by the Church in order to detect insincere conversions. Laws were passed that prohibited the descendants of Jews or Muslims from attending university, joining religious orders, holding public office, or entering any of a long list of professions.
1492 : Jews were given the choice of being baptized as Christians or be banished from Spain. 300,000 left Spain penniless. Many migrated to Turkey, where they found tolerance among the Muslims. Others converted to Christianity but often continued to practice Judaism in secret.
1497: Jews were banished from Portugal. 20 thousand left the country rather than be baptized as Christians.
1516: The Governor of the Republic of Venice decided that Jews would be permitted to live only in one area of the city. It was located in the South Girolamo parish and was called the "Ghetto Novo." This was the first ghetto in Europe. Hitler made use of the concept in the 1930's.
1523: Martin Luther distributed his essay "That Jesus Was Born a Jew. " He hoped that large numbers of Jews would convert to Christianity. They didn't, and he began to write and preach hatred against them. Luther has been condemned in recent years for being extremely antisemitic. The charge has some merit; however he was probably typical of most Christians during his era.
1539: A passion play was forbidden in Rome because it prompted violent attacks against the city's Jewish residents. 9
1540: Jews were exiled from Naples.
1543: In his 20's, Martin Luther, had expected Jews to convert to Christianity in large numbers. Distressed by their reluctance, he developed a hatred for Jews, as expressed in his letters to Rev. Spalatin in 1514, when he was 31 years of age. He wrote:


"I have come to the conclusion that the Jews will always curse and blaspheme God and his King Christ, as all the prophets have predicted....For they are thus given over by the wrath of God to reprobation, that they may become incorrigible, as Ecclesiastes says, for every one who is incorrigible is rendered worse rather than better by correction." 6



In 1543, he wrote "On the Jews and their lies, On Shem Hamphoras" :

"...eject them forever from this country. For, as we have heard, God's anger with them is so intense that gentle mercy will only tend to make them worse and worse, while sharp mercy will reform them but little. Therefore, in any case, away with them!...What then shall we Christians do with this damned, rejected race of Jews?First, their synagogues or churches should be set on fire,...
Secondly, their homes should likewise be broken down and destroyed... They ought to be put under one roof or in a stable, like Gypsies.
Thirdly, they should be deprived of their prayer books and Talmuds in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught.
Fourthly, their rabbis must be forbidden under threat of death to teach any more...
Fifthly, passport and traveling privileges should be absolutely forbidden to the Jews...
Sixthly, they ought to be stopped from usury. All their cash and valuables of silver and gold ought to be taken from them and put aside for safe keeping...
Seventhly, let the young and strong Jews and Jewesses be given the flail, the axe, the hoe, the spade, the distaff, and spindle and let them earn their bread by the sweat of their noses as in enjoined upon Adam's children...

To sum up, dear princes and nobles who have Jews in your domains, if this advice of mine does not suit you, then find a better one so that you and we may all be free of this insufferable devilish burden - the Jews." 7

1550: Jews were exiled from Genoa and Venice.
1555-JUL-12: A Roman Catholic Papal bull, "Cum nimis absurdum," required Jews to wear badges, and live in ghettos. They were not allowed to own property outside the ghetto. Living conditions were dreadful: over 3,000 people were forced to live in about 8 acres of land. Women had to wear a yellow veil or scarf; men had to wear a piece of yellow cloth on their hat. 8
1582: Jews were expelled from Holland.
1648-9: Chmielnicki Bogdan led an uprising against Polish rule in the Ukraine. The secondary goal of Bogdan and his followers was to exterminate all Jews in the country. The massacre began with the slaughter of about 6,000 Jews in Nemirov. Other major mass murders occurred in Tulchin, Polonnoye, Volhynia, Bar, Lvov, etc. Jewish records estimate that a total of 100,000 Jews were murdered and 300 communities destroyed.


Subsequent attacks against Jews tended to be racially motivated. They were perpetrated primarily by the state. The Jewish people were viewed as a separate people or race.

1806: A French Jesuit Priest, Abbe Barruel, had written a treatise blaming the Masonic Order for the French Revolution. He later issued a letter alleging that Jews, not the Masons were the guilty party. This triggered a belief in an international Jewish conspiracy in Germany, Poland and some other European countries later in the 19th century.
1846 - 1878: Pope Pius IX restored all of the previous restrictions against the Jews within the Vatican state. All Jews under Papal control were confined to Rome's ghetto - the last one in Europe until the Nazi era. On 2000-SEP-3, Pope John Paul II beautified Pius IX; this is the last step before sainthood. He explained: "Beatifying a son of the church does not celebrate particular historic choices that he has made, but rather points him out for imitation and for veneration for his virtue."
1858: Edgardo Mortara was kidnapped, at the age of six, from his Jewish family by Roman Catholic officials after they found out that a maid had secretly baptized him. He was not returned to his family but was raised a Catholic. He eventually became a priest. 
1873: The term "antisemitism" is first used in a pamphlet by Wilhelm Marr called "Jewry's Victory over Teutonism."
1881: Alexander II of Russia was assassinated by radicals. The Jews were blamed. About 200 individual pogroms against the Jews followed. ("Pogrom" is a Russian word meaning "devastation" or "riot." In Russia, a pogrom was typically a mob riot against Jewish individuals, shops, homes or businesses. They were often supported and even organized by the government.) Thousands of Jews became homeless and impoverished. The few who were charged with offenses generally received very light sentences. 1
1893: "...anti-Semitic parties won sixteen seats in the German Reichstag." 2
1894: Captain Alfred Dreyfus, an officer on the French general staff, was convicted of treason. The evidence against him consisted of a piece of paper from his wastebasket with another person's handwriting, and papers forged by antisemitic officers. He received a life sentence on Devil's Island, off the coast of South America. The French government was aware that a Major Esterhazy was actually guilty. 3 The church, government and army united to suppress the truth. Writer Emile Zola and politician Jean Jaurès fought for justice and human rights. After 10 years, the French government fell and Drefus was declared totally innocent. The Dreyfus Affair was world-wide news for years. It motivated Journalist Theodor Herzl to write a book in 1896: "The Jewish State: A Modern Solution to the Jewish Question." The book led to the founding of the Zionist movement which fought for a Jewish Homeland. A half century later, the state of Israel was born.
1903: At Easter, government agents organized an anti-Jewish pogrom in Kishinev, Moldova, Russia. The local newspaper published a series of inflammatory articles. A Christian child was discovered murdered and a young Christian woman at the Jewish Hospital committed suicide. Jews were blamed for the deaths. Violence ensured. The 5,000 soldiers in the town did nothing. When the smoke cleared, 49 Jews had been killed, 500 were injured; 700 homes looted and destroyed, 600 businesses and shops looted, 2000 families left homeless. Later, it was discovered that the child had been murdered by its relatives and the suicide was unrelated to the Jews. 4
1905: The Okhrana, the Russian secret police in the reign of Czar Nicholas II, converted an earlier antisemitic novel into a document called the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion." It was published privately in 1897. A Russian Orthodox priest, Sergius Nilus, published them publicly  in 1905. It was promoted as the record of "secret rabbinical conferences whose aim was to subjugate and exterminate the Christians." 5 The Protocols were used by the Okhrana in a propaganda campaign that was associated with massacres of the Jews. These were the Czarist Pogroms of 1905.
1915: 600,000 Jews were forcibly moved from the western borders of Russia towards the interior. About 100,000 died of exposure or starvation.
1917: "In the civil war following the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917, the reactionary White Armies made extensive use of the Protocols to incite widespread slaughters of Jews." 5  Two hundred thousand Jews were murdered in the Ukraine alone.
1920: The Protocols reach England and the United States. They are exposed as a forgery, but are widely circulated. Henry Ford sponsored a study of international activities of Jews. This led to a series of antisemitic articles in the Dearborn Independent, which were published in a book, "The International Jew."
1920: The defeat of Germany in World War I and the continuing economic difficulties were blamed in that country on the "Jewish influence." One antisemitic poster has been preserved from that era. 6 It shows a German, presumably Christian woman, a male Jew with distorted facial features, a coffin and the word "Deutschland" (Germany)
1920's, 1930's: Hitler had published in Mein Kampf in 1925, writing: "Today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." The Protocols are used by the Nazis  to whip up public hatred of the Jews  in the 1930's. Widespread pogroms occur in Greece, Hungary, Mexico, Poland, Rumania, and the USSR. Radio programs by many conservative American clergy, both Roman Catholic and Protestant, frequently attacked Jews. Reverend Fr. Charles E Coughlin was one of the best known. "In the 1930's, radio audiences heard him rail against the threat of Jews to America's economy and defend Hitler's treatment of Jews as justified in the fight against communism." (12) Other conservative Christian leaders, such as Frank Norris and John Straton supported the Jews. 7Discrimination against Jews in North America is widespread. Many universities set limits on the maximum number of Jewish students that they would accept. Harvard accepted all students on the basis of merit until after World War I when the percentage of Jewish students approached 15%. At that time they installed an informal quota system. In 1941, Princeton had fewer than 2% Jews in their student body. Jews were routinely barred from country clubs, prestigious neighborhoods, etc. 8


1933: Hitler took power in Germany. On APR-1, Julius Streicher organized a one-day boycott of all Jewish owned busienss in the country. This was the start of continuous oppression by the Nazis culminating in the Holocaust (a.k.a. Shoah). Jews "were barred from civil service, legal professions and universities, were not allowed to teach in schools and could not be editors of newspapers." 2 Two years later, Jews were no longer considered citizens.
1934: Various laws were enacted in Germany to force Jews out of schools and professions.
1935: The Nazis passed the Nuremberg Laws restricting citizenship to those of "German or related blood." Jews became stateless.
1936: Cardinal Hloud of Poland urged Catholics to boycott Jewish businesses.
1938: On NOV-9, the Nazi government in Germany sent storm troopers, the SS and the Hitler Youth on a pogrom that killed 91 Jews, injured hundreds, burned 177 synagogues and looted 7,500 Jewish stores. Broken glass could be seen everywhere; the glass gave this event its name of Kristallnacht, the Night of Broken Glass. 9
1938: Hitler brought back century-old church law, ordering all Jews to wear a yellow Star of David as identification. A few hundred thousand Jews are allowed to leave Germany after they give all of their assets to the government.
1939: The Holocaust, the Shoah -- the systematic extermination of Jews in Germany -- begins. The process only ended in 1945 with the conclusion of World War II. Approximately 6 million Jews (1.5 million of them children), 400 thousand Roma (Gypsies) and others were slaughtered. Some were killed by death squads; others were slowly killed in trucks with carbon monoxide; others were gassed in large groups in Auschwitz, Dacau, Sobibor, Treblinka and other extermination camps. Officially, the holocaust was described by the Nazis as subjecting Jews "to special treatment" or as a "solution of the Jewish question." Gold taken from the teeth of the victims was recycled; hair was used in the manufacture of mattresses. In the Buchenwald extermination camp, lampshades were made out of human skin; however, this appears to be an isolated incident. A rumor spread that Jewish corpses were routinely converted into soap. However, the story appears to be false. 10 
1940: The Vichy government of France collaborated with Nazi Germany by freezing about 80,000 Jewish bank accounts. During the next four years, they deported about 76,000 Jews to Nazi death camps; only about 2,500 survived. It was only in 1995 that a French president, Jacques Chirac, "was able to admit that the state bore a heavy share of responsibility in the mass round-ups and deportations of Jews, as well as in the property and asset seizures that were carried out with the active help of the Vichy regime." 11
1941: The Holocaust Museum in Washington DC estimates that 13,000 Jews died on 1941-JUN-19 during a pogrom in Bucharest, Romania. It was ordered by the pro-Nazi Romanian regime of Marshal Ion Antonescu. The current government has admitted that this atrocity happened, but most Romanians continue to deny that the Jews were killed on orders from their own government. 12
1941: Polish citizens in Jedwabne in northeastern Poland killed hundreds of Jews, by either beating them to death or burning them alive in a barn. According to the Associated Press: "The role played by Polish citizens was suppressed for nearly six decades until publication of a book by a Polish emigre historian, Jan Tomasz Gross. After release of the book in 2000, the Polish government launched an investigation. 'The role of the Poles was decisive in conducting the criminal act,' [prosecutor Radoslaw] Ignatiew, said. The book, 'Neighbours,' sparked national soul-searching among Poles, many of whom could not believe that anybody but the Nazis would have committed the atrocity." 13
1942: The Nazi leaders of Germany, at the Wannsee conference, decided on"the final solution of the Jewish question" which was the attempt to exterminate every Jew in Europe. From JUL-28 to 31, almost 18,000 Russian inhabitants of the Minsk ghetto in what is now Belarus were exterminated. This was in addition to 5,000 to 15,000 who had been massacred in earlier pogroms in that city. This was just one of many such pogroms during World War II. 14
1945: The Shoah (Holocaust) ended as the Allied Forces over-ran the Nazi death camps.
1946: Even though World War II ended the year before, antisemitic pogroms continued, particularly in Poland, with the deaths of many Jews.

Again, your last statement is simply patently, totally false and without merit. I do not understand why you are simply making untrue statements.
What's the point?
How do you reconcile "the resolve of the Zionists to have a state only for themselves" with over one million non-Jewish Israeli citizens of Israel?
And how do you reconcile this false statement with the true statement that there are many Arab countries where Jews are not permitted to live, or, equally repugnant, where Jews are not permitted to leave? This would include the Palestinian desire to have a Juden-frei state.

Gandhi put his life at risk leading his fight for freedom and equality in India and especially in South Africa. He put concerns for self preservation second to the cause for those ideals.

It's futile to play the "what if" game. All that can be said for certain is that the Ashkenazim did not employ non-violent resistance against the Nazis.

The British did help the Ashkenazim enter Palestine. Their duplicity to both the Zionists and the Arabs soon blew up, literally, in their face.

The problems between the Arabs and Ashkenazim began just about as soon as the latter's colonization of Palestine began--in the late 19th century, roughly 50 years before the rise of the Nazis in Germany.

You have a gross misunderstanding of what Gandhi prescribed, Moishe. Gandhi did not glorify death over life. He urged non-violent resistance in the name of satyagraha--non-violent action to effect a cause. What six million Ashkenazim did was non-violently acquiesce to the Nazis. That is closer to what you describe as the glorification of death over life.

In the context of 1938, before the outbreak of the war and before the Nazi regime had actually begun implementing the "final solution," Gandhi's advice was not at all far-fetched. While the Nazi leadership were totally heartless and would not be moved by Jewish resistance, the German people as a whole were not yet totally caught up in the Nazi war machine. The Holocaust was not inevitable. Who knows if a Jewish Gandhi had arisen, what the effect might have been?

Au, Gandhi said this in an interview with The Jewish Chronicle, London, October 2, 1931, and it is an apt reply to your post:


Anti-Semitism is really a remnant of barbarism. I have never been able to understand this antipathy to the Jews. I have read Zangwill`s Children of the Ghetto, and when I read it, I realised what unmerited persecution Jews had already gone through and I felt then as I feel now that this persecution is, if I can again say so in all humility, a reflection upon those who, in the name of Christianity, have persecuted this long-suffering race.

The remedy? My remedy is twofold. One is that those who profess to be Christians should learn the virtue of toleration and charity, and the second is for Jews to rid themselves of the causes for such reproach as may be justly laid at their door.

Moishe,
the one million non-Jewish population in Israel is largely regarded as a managable minority.

That it may potentially exceed the Jewish one in Israel, the Jewish state, is a cause of much consternation and alarm there, no?

Infrablue,
I become sarcastic because either you are willfully ignorant of history or you are simply lost in La-La Land.
You seemed to be well versed Ghandi period history, so I suggest you check out what happened to the non-violent resisters to the Third Reich.
There were actually quite a few of them.
Some survived.
Most died.

As far as the Jewish ones go:
Those who never yielded: The history of the Chassidic rebel movement in the ghettoes of German-occupied Poland by Moshe Prager

This is one of the first collections of first-hand testimonies about Hasidic non-violent resistance to the Nazis to come out in English.
Who was a hero? Those who grabbed guns and joined the Resistance -- yes, they were brave war heros. But there was another kind of hero also -- that of the Hasidic youths in Poland who, from the very beginnings of the rise of the Third Reich, utterly refused to cooperate in any way with the "satan" (Hitler). It is this little-known true story of non-violent resistance that the book tells.

One of the founders of this movement was a ba'al tshuvah (Jew who grew up secular and later became religious) known as Mattisyahu the Penitent. In his early youth he was an assimilated Austrian Jew growing up in Vienna. Then came Hitler. Suddenly his "friends" at school were calling him a "dirty Jew." One day, Matti decided to visit the Jewish section of the city, to see if Jews really were any dirtier than anyone else. There he met the Rebbe of Boyan, a Hasidic leader who was visiting Vienna at the time. This encounter changed Matti's life forever. At the age of 15, he dedicated his life to God, and, against his father's wishes, went to Poland to study Torah with the Gerer Rebbe.

When the Nazis occupied Poland, Mattisyahu urged his fellow Jews not to cooperate in any way. Do not register for the German work crews. Do not wear yellow stars. Do not give up your Jewish hats, beards, and sidecurls. Continue to study Torah, observe the Holy Days -- in short, keep your dignity as Jews. The secularist leaders of the Jewish community said this was utter folly: to disobey the Nazis meant death. "Mattiyahu's Men" knew this, but they also understood that the Nazi goal was to break the Jewish spirit. To yield on one point would lead to yielding on others and, in the end, they would lose more than their physical lives. They would lose their souls.

The firsthand testimonials in this book come from survivors of many ghettos and concentration camps where Mattisyahu's Men studied and taught their way of non-cooperation. Some of the storytellers were themselves among "those who never yielded." Even the secular Jews came to respect them. As one burly baker named "Red Nuta" told told a Hasid who asked for bread to smuggle to a hidden group of Hasidic scholars: "If you are one of Mattisyahu's Men, you deserve the bread. You 'soft' chassidim are the only ones who don't let those rats spit in your faces."
The book is a valuable documentary of a little-known non-violent resistence movement that developed completely independently of Mahatma Gandhi, founded by a man who was every bit as saintly.

Infrablue,
I become sarcastic because either you are willfully ignorant of history or you are simply lost in La-La Land.
You seemed to be well versed Ghandi period history, so I suggest you check out what happened to the non-violent resisters to the Third Reich.
There were actually quite a few of them.
Some survived.
Most died.

As far as the Jewish ones go:
Those who never yielded: The history of the Chassidic rebel movement in the ghettoes of German-occupied Poland by Moshe Prager

This is one of the first collections of first-hand testimonies about Hasidic non-violent resistance to the Nazis to come out in English.
Who was a hero? Those who grabbed guns and joined the Resistance -- yes, they were brave war heros. But there was another kind of hero also -- that of the Hasidic youths in Poland who, from the very beginnings of the rise of the Third Reich, utterly refused to cooperate in any way with the "satan" (Hitler). It is this little-known true story of non-violent resistance that the book tells.

One of the founders of this movement was a ba'al tshuvah (Jew who grew up secular and later became religious) known as Mattisyahu the Penitent. In his early youth he was an assimilated Austrian Jew growing up in Vienna. Then came Hitler. Suddenly his "friends" at school were calling him a "dirty Jew." One day, Matti decided to visit the Jewish section of the city, to see if Jews really were any dirtier than anyone else. There he met the Rebbe of Boyan, a Hasidic leader who was visiting Vienna at the time. This encounter changed Matti's life forever. At the age of 15, he dedicated his life to God, and, against his father's wishes, went to Poland to study Torah with the Gerer Rebbe.

When the Nazis occupied Poland, Mattisyahu urged his fellow Jews not to cooperate in any way. Do not register for the German work crews. Do not wear yellow stars. Do not give up your Jewish hats, beards, and sidecurls. Continue to study Torah, observe the Holy Days -- in short, keep your dignity as Jews. The secularist leaders of the Jewish community said this was utter folly: to disobey the Nazis meant death. "Mattiyahu's Men" knew this, but they also understood that the Nazi goal was to break the Jewish spirit. To yield on one point would lead to yielding on others and, in the end, they would lose more than their physical lives. They would lose their souls.

The firsthand testimonials in this book come from survivors of many ghettos and concentration camps where Mattisyahu's Men studied and taught their way of non-cooperation. Some of the storytellers were themselves among "those who never yielded." Even the secular Jews came to respect them. As one burly baker named "Red Nuta" told told a Hasid who asked for bread to smuggle to a hidden group of Hasidic scholars: "If you are one of Mattisyahu's Men, you deserve the bread. You 'soft' chassidim are the only ones who don't let those rats spit in your faces."
The book is a valuable documentary of a little-known non-violent resistence movement that developed completely independently of Mahatma Gandhi, founded by a man who was every bit as saintly.

Infra,
The Jews of Europe were obliterated by the Nazis - fact.
The Indians of India were not obliterated by the English - fact.

However, the civil war that followed Ghandi's non-violence movement had millions of Hindus fighting and dispossessing millions of Muslims who were fighting and dispossessing millions of Hindus.....
As the death clouds cleared, uneasy lines of demarcation were drawn between West Pakistan and India and East Pakistan...
And the millions of refugees of the land where they and their forefather's had lived since time immemorial, simply had to make do with their new countries and their new dispossession and their new lives.
I do not believe that there are currently any UN refugee camps left over from the wars of seccession and independence that came about between India and the Pakistans in 1948
Hmmm. Odd date that. What other wars of independence and seccession happened in 1948?
Explain to me again how Ghandi would have prevented the Arabs from trying to obliterate the Jews?
The same non-violent resistance that worked between the Hindus and the Muslims?