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Eye On Israel/Palestine

 
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2005 04:41 pm
Walter
I guess that was as predictable as night following day. Hopefully it will not hold.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Jan, 2005 07:37 pm
Whoa!!! THIS is big, I think!

Any comments???

Palestinian Security Forces Deploy in Gaza
Fri Jan 21, 2005 04:28 PM ET

By Nidal al-Mughrabi
GAZA (Reuters) - Palestinian security forces took up positions in northern Gaza on Friday under orders from President Mahmoud Abbas to curb militant attacks as part of his plan to end bloodshed and revive peacemaking.

The deployment of hundreds of paramilitary police, preceded by cease-fire talks between Abbas and militants and a sharp drop in violence in Gaza, was the clearest sign of renewed security cooperation with Israel in more than four years of fighting.

"Talks with Hamas are positive and are continuing," Abbas's office said in a statement, referring to the powerful Islamic group that says it will only agree to a truce if Israel ceases all militay activity in Gaza.

Wearing berets and carrying assault rifles, Palestinian security men entered the border towns of Beit Hanoun and Beit Lahiya and other parts of northern Gaza to prevent rocket and mortar bomb attacks on Jewish settlements and southern Israel.

"This is great. I hope it's going to be the beginning of calm at last," said Abu Tayseer al-Bakhri, 51, who lives near the border fence with Israel. Abbas discussed with militant leaders the need for restraint to help ensure the implementation of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's plan to pull Jewish settlers out of Gaza this year -- a step Israel says it will not take "under fire."

Senior Islamic Jihad leader Mohammed al-Hindi said Israel would have to agree to the group's conditions, such as stopping attacks and raids and freeing Palestinian prisoners, before it would consider halting attacks against Israelis.

"We have said clearly and frankly that no cards can be given free for the Zionist enemy," he said. "Sharon wants to withdraw from Gaza in calm. If he wants calm, he has to pay the price."

LULL IN ATTACKS

In a sign that Abbas's efforts could be working, militants have not launched a rocket or mortar bomb in Gaza since Tuesday.

"The factions are waiting to see what Abbas has (to offer)," said a spokesman for the militant Popular Resistance Committees, also linking the lull to the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Adha, which ends on Sunday.

Sharon, who briefly broke off contacts with the new Palestinian leadership after a Gaza attack killed six Israelis last week, sent holiday greetings to Abbas..............



Full story here:

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=7397867&src=rss/topNews
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 05:08 am
ABC Australia:

"US praises Palestinian security effort
The United States has joined the praise for new measures by the Palestinian Authority to stop militants attacking Israeli targets.

As many as 3,000 Palestinian security forces have been deployed on the border between the Gaza Strip and Israel.

Israeli chief of staff, General Mousha Yalon said Israel was witnessing the beginning of positive developments in the Palestinian camp and the Deputy Prime Minister, Shimon Peres, called Mr Abbas's actions very impressive.

These statements were also expressions of relief.

Last week the Israeli Government decided in principle to launch a sweeping military invasion of Gaza if the attacks continued.

Israeli commentators say many in the army and political leadership are against this option because of the inevitable casualties on both sides.

They also fear it would seriously undermine Mr Abbas and fly in the face of international demands that Israel give him time to consolidate his leadership. "

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200501/s1286933.htm
0 Replies
 
stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 12:06 pm
Israel is a contradiction waiting to be fulfilled
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 12:15 pm
Stervewonder.
You said it, now what the hell are you talking about.
0 Replies
 
stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Jan, 2005 12:25 pm
>If the US ever stops its support Israel is finished.
>If arab dictators are over thrown, Israel i finished and the is a clear indication that will happen sooner rather than later.
>If Israel nukes say Egypt, Syria or Saudi etc for 'its survival' jewish people the world over will have to deal with the backlash indefintley.
>Arab countries could probably survive a nuking but Israel would be finished for the next 1000 years. The 'get out of jail free card' jewish hold i.e the sympathy card will be lost, since nuking a fe million innocent arabs will be consider equal to the haulcaust despite protests that is as in self defence.
>Right wing groups are gaining sweeping success in many European countries some that were considered very liberal traditionally, and given that Europe will undoubtley be snatching the throne back from US it will spell serious trouble for israel. Europeans already regard israel as the most despised nation on earth.
>If israel continues to bring in non-jews and asks them to 'convert' to judaism, if this happens in enough numbers this will finish israel since these converts dont real hold any candle for the faith or identity with judaism and their 2nd generation world undoubtly revert to their own religion or secularism. This is proving true already with many Russian converts.
>It requires just one war to be lost against any one country Israel will be finished.
>Have arabs accepted the idea of israel? When israel was created the media in most of the arab/ muslim world was backward and most people did not know what was happening, now the actions of the IDF are broadcast everywhere daily and yes the arabs/muslims have a greater anger than ever before and have moved further away from accepting israels existence.
>It is a very disturbing lie that Arab hate or want to wipe out jews we can read historically that jewish people lived in peace for centuries in arab world without presecution, in fact after the inquisition the jews living under arab rule in arab spain for 800 years fled to the Ottoman empire for refuge. It is a fact jewish people suffered more from europeans than at the hands of arabs. hostility towards arabs-jews is a recent creation resulting from the zionist movement.
Jewish people need to think and question the possible outcome it seems they have a complete misunderstanding of contemporary world and have learnt no lessons from history.
0 Replies
 
Cthugplaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 04:01 am
I Just wanna Say that I am BLOWN AWAY.

I just wanna Start out by saying Ignore my Screen Name for Just a Few Moments........and listen closely to what i have to say

I am a palestinian Young Man , and i live in Baltimore,Md and i Visited Palestine near the Old city Jerusalem where my family Lives.... Its a Place Called "Shufat". I have seen how Isreali's treat us because i was almost Killed in the past Summer. I was Lucky that my Whole Family's Men came to Help me. They stopped the soldiers from shooting me in the head for stoping them from tuggng a woman and her baby at 3:00 am. she was taking her baby to the doctor and i heard her crying and Yelling so i came out to see the Problem and the 2 soldiers aimed there guns at me and started to load the ar-15 and mini 10 mm hand gun. so i was saved by my cousins and i wouldnt be here typing this if it wasnt for them and the People who support the Palestinian People (the Innocent Ones) .
and I believe that STEVEWONDER's words are Poetic.
Also i think he is an Open Minded True Man.
Unlike Others , he critically thinks of this issue in a Critical way. I couldnt have put an argument Better than the one stevewonder wrote.

I just wanna tell you that i respect you alot and i think your one Cool Guy. And if i Knew you personally i Probably would be your Best Friend.
(i hope i dont sound gay) lol but its true.

Peace out.... and thanks man.
0 Replies
 
Moishe3rd
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 09:56 am
Well, well. I agree with Thug Player. Stevie's words are truly poetic. Not particulary good poetry, but very poetic. Poetic in the sense of the word of your ancestor's Thug - the tradition of the bardling; the ancient screaming of the Midians worshipping Baal Peor; the shrill calls of iman calling his cultists to kill.
In the true tradition of a nice Jewish boy, Allen Ginsberg, Stevie's words are a true Yowl.
However, all may not agree with this beautiful assessment.
So perhaps you, Thug Player, or perhaps SteveWonder, could pick one of his many fantastic points and defend it with some rational discourse as opposed to poetic meanderings.
I'll even start for you.
Quote:
>If arab dictators are over thrown, Israel i finished and the is a clear indication that will happen sooner rather than later.

I assume that you are proposing that the overthrow of Saddam (which is indeed Maddas spelled backwards) is a death knell for the state of Israel.
Which, I guess would mean that Israel is crumbling right now, before our very eyes?
Is there something you could demonstrate that would support this theorem?
And, just curious C Thug Player, why are you living in the United States? Wouldn't being at the forefront of your Noble Cause in Israel be a more useful waste of your life?
0 Replies
 
stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 05:09 pm
Yes i would be delighted to discuss each point with you. lets start with the one you have quoted.
The fact that saddam (maddas) has been over thrown places Israel security in the worse situation ever. Why?
Well realsitcally we all know that Saddam especially during the 1980s was chums with the US, he was a secularist and surpressed the Islamic miltants and the Shia. Secularist like sadat, mubarak, hussein (Jordon), etc have always been the quickest to make peace wth and accept israel.
Who are among the biggest problems for Israel: hezbollah and Iran just now. yet US has removed a secularist 'no hoper' and replaced them with an iran backed shia majority. these guys saught refuge for decades in iran from saddam. Now they are gonna run the country.
For any one with any political analytical skills can see the Shia not participating in miltancy but they are bidding their time to take power.
On the other hand US has radicalised the previously passified sunnis.
Now the thing with pro israelis is that they lose their rational faculties and start becoming emotional and hyterical as you have shown.
the world will still go on even if you nuked arab countries and all jewish people need to think about how we gonna live in the world attached with that tagg of nuking innocent people?
Just yesterday it has been announced in russia MPS are calling openly for anti-semitic laws to be introduced. Neo nazi Right wingers will have a field day if Israel ever used its nukes.
Saddam was the 'guard dog' that kept Islamic fundamentalism in place in Iraq, the crazy tactics of the US has now unleashed these guys.
The insurgency are Sunni Islamic radicals fighting americans and the Shia are Islamic radicals about to win elections, make no mistakes they are an extension of th Iranian clergy, 60% of Iraqis are Shia who are loyal to Sistani who is a Cleric not a secularist.
Dont you guys get it there is no secular option left in iraq.
the bottom line is the clerics will be ruling Iraq tommorrow. Question: will they kiss and make up with israel, and tell their Shia brothers in Hezbollah in Lebonan to behave themselves. what do you think?
I wasnt tryting to be poetic, i think i am evaluating things rationally.
0 Replies
 
Moishe3rd
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 09:46 pm
Quote:
Yes i would be delighted to discuss each point with you. lets start with the one you have quoted.
The fact that saddam (maddas) has been over thrown places Israel security in the worse situation ever. Why?
Well realsitcally we all know that Saddam especially during the 1980s was chums with the US, he was a secularist and surpressed the Islamic miltants and the Shia. Secularist like sadat, mubarak, hussein (Jordon), etc have always been the quickest to make peace wth and accept israel.

"We all know" is a synonym for abysmal ignorance. Your silly opinions contain no weight.
Quote:
Who are among the biggest problems for Israel: hezbollah and Iran just now. yet US has removed a secularist 'no hoper' and replaced them with an iran backed shia majority. these guys saught refuge for decades in iran from saddam. Now they are gonna run the country.
For any one with any political analytical skills can see the Shia not participating in miltancy but they are bidding their time to take power.

Hezbollah and Iran are identical. Iran is not and has not been a particular problem for Israel. There is nothing there.

Your ignorance of Islam is also abysmal.
You really ought to study up on "Wilayat Al-Faqih," which is the Ayatollah Khomeini's Shia cult he invented (Rule of the Jurist). Not only do the Iranians find it repugnant, it is not accepted in Iraq by any Shia, except the Iranian agents sent there by Iran.
Study Shia Islam. Learn. Grow. Become intelligent.
There is not a chance in Jahannam that Iraq's religious Shia government will ever follow Iran. Silly man.
(And, speaking ex cathedra from the belly button, I would give Iraq a pretty fair chance of normalizing relations with Israel by March 26th.)
Quote:
On the other hand US has radicalised the previously passified sunnis.
Now the thing with pro israelis is that they lose their rational faculties and start becoming emotional and hyterical as you have shown.
the world will still go on even if you nuked arab countries and all jewish people need to think about how we gonna live in the world attached with that tagg of nuking innocent people?
Just yesterday it has been announced in russia MPS are calling openly for anti-semitic laws to be introduced. Neo nazi Right wingers will have a field day if Israel ever used its nukes.

And this rant shows ? ? Shocked Rolling Eyes
You are incapable of writing more than few sentences without lapsing into babbling Jew hatred? ?
Or you are trying to demonstrate.... what?
Quote:
Saddam was the 'guard dog' that kept Islamic fundamentalism in place in Iraq, the crazy tactics of the US has now unleashed these guys.
The insurgency are Sunni Islamic radicals fighting americans

I am only trying to separate your thoughts to give you some semblance of coherency.
Per the above. Okay... Rolling Eyes
Quote:
the Shia are Islamic radicals about to win elections, make no mistakes they are an extension of th Iranian clergy, 60% of Iraqis are Shia who are loyal to Sistani who is a Cleric not a secularist.
Dont you guys get it there is no secular option left in iraq.
the bottom line is the clerics will be ruling Iraq tommorrow. Question: will they kiss and make up with israel, and tell their Shia brothers in Hezbollah in Lebonan to behave themselves. what do you think?

And, I believe I addressed this quite thoroughly above.
You are out of your mind (Sorry. You are merely uniformed and have no particular knowledge of Islam, Iraq, Iran, Israel or the Middle East.)
I think that the ruling Shia Islamic Clerics in Iraq, after this Sunday's election, will embrace Israel.
Yes, Indeedy.

Now, my opinion on Iraq embracing Israel may be poetic, but the remainder of what will happen in Iraq vis a vis the religious Shia government that will be formed is not poetic. Merely informed.
I suggest reading up on Islam.
And then try reading up on Israel.
Iraq and Israel will make natural allies.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 10:41 pm
Moishe wrote:
Iraq and Israel will make natural allies.


How do you figure?
0 Replies
 
Moishe3rd
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jan, 2005 11:24 pm
InfraBlue wrote:
Moishe wrote:
Iraq and Israel will make natural allies.


How do you figure?


Iraq will vote on Sunday.
The Shia majority will win the majority. They will desire to ally with the Kurdish minority and they will desire to keep the US in Iraq for as long as possible in order to keep the fight against the fascist death cultists from deteriorating into a Lebanon type civil war.
The US and Shia majority government will work hand in hand to stabilize Iraq.
Inshala, the death cultists will gradually be eliminated, as in Afghanistan.
Iraq will achieve democratic stability and prosperity.
They will be the only other freely elected democracy in the Middle East.
They will be allied with the US, the most powerful country in the world.
Democracies generally ally with each other if it is in each other's best interests.
The two countries in the Middle East that Islamic fascist death cultists want to destroy are a democratic Iraq and a democratic Israel.
Quote:
Insurgents Vowing to Kill Iraqis Who Brave the Polls on Sunday
By DEXTER FILKINS

AGHDAD, Iraq, Jan. 25 - The black sedan made its way down Madaris Street, the young men inside tossing leaflets out the window.

"This is a final warning to all of those who plan to participate in the election," the leaflets said. "We vow to wash the streets of Baghdad with the voters' blood."

Thus was the war over Sunday's nationwide elections crystallized in a single incident on Tuesday in Mashtal, an ethnically mixed neighborhood on the eastern edge of Baghdad, where many Iraqis say they would like to vote, and where a small, determined group of people are doing everything they can to stop them.

The leaflets, like many turning up on sidewalks and doorsteps across the capital, were chilling in their detail: they warned Iraqis to stay at least 500 yards away from voting booths, for each would be the potential target of a rocket, mortar shell or car bomb. The leaflet suggested that Iraqis stay away from their windows, too, in case of blasts.

"To those of you who think you can vote and then run away," the leaflet warned, "we will shadow you and catch you, and we will cut off your heads and the heads of your children."
Source - The New York Times


Iraq and Israel will make natural allies.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 02:16 am
Quote:
Israel refuses to rule out attack on Iran
By Anne Penketh, Diplomatic Editor
27 January 2005


Israel's Defence Minister refused to rule out a pre-empt-ive strike on Iran yesterday, claiming that Tehran was "close to a point of no return" on its suspected development of a nuclear weapon.

At a meeting with journalists in London, Shaul Mofaz did little to dispel the sense of unease caused by comments last week by the US Vice-President, Dick Cheney, who suggested Israel might "decide to act first" to end Iran's nuclear threat.

Mr Mofaz said: "I believe that none of the Western countries can live with Iran having a nuclear capability - not the US, not the European countries and nor other countries."

But he stressed that the "first step" should be through diplomatic channels to resolve the standoff with Iran, suspected by the US and Israel of using its civilian programme as a cover for weapons development.

"The way to stop Iran is by the leadership of the US, supported by European countries and taking this issue to the UN, and using the diplomatic channel with sanctions as a tool and a very deep inspection regime and full transparency."

Asked what Israel would do if diplomatic channels failed, Mr Mofaz went on: "The US is a strong power that can stop any kind of nuclear programme, especially in the hands of an extreme regime."

The Israeli minister left no doubt, however, he was sceptical about the outcome of negotiations with the Iranian government, which he said had been "buying time" through talks with Britain, France and Germany.

He warned that Tehran was "less than a year" from enriching uranium, which he described as the "point of no return" towards making a nuclear weapon. He echoed comments by the Mossad intelligence agency, which said that Iran could have developed a nuclear bomb in three years, a statement dismissed by Iran as baseless. Mr Mofaz rejected Iranian assertions that it was working on a peaceful civilian programme, saying that there was "no goal by the Iranian side for a civilian programme. Their goal is to achieve a military programme".

Pressure on Iran has been increasing recently in the form of aggressive statements from the Bush administration, branding the Tehran regime an "outpost of tyranny". Mr Cheney said Iran's nuclear programme put it at the "top of the list" of global issues.

The Iranian President, Mohamed Khatami, retorted: "We say that America is at the top of the list of countries that are endangering world peace and security and we hope that one day they come to their senses.

"[Negotiations with the EU] haven't reached a dead end," Mr Khatami went on. "Of course, we have our own stances and we are talking to the Europeans and we hope to reach a conclusion." Iran has agreed to suspend activities which could be used to make nuclear bomb material, such as uranium enrichment, and to try to reach a negotiated solution. But Mr Mofaz said: "Although there are some achievements by the suspension of the military programme, there is not a full stop."
Source
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 09:52 am
Palestinian prime minister Ahmed Qureia ordered a ban on civilians carrying weapons in Palestinian territories on Thursday, showing a desire for less violence in the wake of Palestine's proposal to Israel of a mutual cease fire. The order was signed during a security meeting among senior officials amid a busy day of meetings on Wednesday that raised hopes the sides could reach an agreement on ending years of bloodshed. Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas has been praised by Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon and visiting US envoy William Burns for his efforts to reduce violence in the region. Abbas has also been assured by armed groups that they will halt attacks on Israel if Israel stops military operations like arrest raids and targeted killings of Palestinian fugitives. Abbas said he expects to hear from Israel "as soon as possible" on the cease-fire proposal.

Quote:

PA bans civilians from carrying weapons



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Associated Press, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 27, 2005

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Palestinians are waiting for a quick Israeli response to the proposal of a mutual cease-fire declaration, Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas said Thursday.

An Israeli official said Israel has not ruled out the idea.

Signaling PA efforts to reign in violence, Palestinian prime minister Ahmed Qureia issued an order on Thursday banning civilians from carrying weapons in the Palestinian territories, Cabinet Minister Saeb Erekat told the AP.

The order was signed during a security meeting among senior officials in the West Bank city of Ramallah.

A flurry of bilateral meetings on Wednesday raised hopes that the sides can reach an agreement on ending four years of bloodshed.

Israeli government spokesman Raanan Gissin refused to comment on the meetings, but Israel has said it would respond to "quiet with quiet.".

In southern Gaza on Friday, Palestinian police practiced for deployment in some of the most volatile areas of the coastal strip. Abbas, meanwhile, won praise from Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and visiting US envoy William Burns for his efforts to halt violence.

In a test for Abbas's ruling Fatah movement, the first municipal elections in Gaza's history was being held Thursday in 10 districts in the coastal strip. The terrorist groups Hamas and Islamic Jihad were expected to pose a stiff challenge to Fatah in the races.

Abbas has won assurances from armed groups that they will halt attacks on Israel, provided Israel stops military operations, including arrest raids and targeted killings of Palestinian fugitives. Abbas told reporters Thursday that he expects to hear from Israel "as soon as possible" on his offer of a cease-fire declaration.

Mohammed Dahlan, a senior Abbas adviser, said in an interview with The Associated Press that Israel had agreed in principle to stop pursuing militants and halt the targeted killings.

Dahlan said the Israeli assurance came in a meeting a day earlier between senior Palestinian and Israeli officials. Dahlan participated in the meeting.

A senior Palestinian official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Israel promised in the meeting to release hundreds of prisoners - a key Palestinian demand - and that the number to be freed is expected to be about 900.

The official also said that Abbas and his prime minister Ahmed Qureia had decided to name Nasser Yousef as the new Palestinian interior minister. Yousef had been in charge of cracking down on terrorists in the 1990s, and his appointment would send a clear signal that the Palestinian leadership intends to rein in violence.

In central and southern Gaza, Palestinian police were to have taken up positions on Thursday. However, deployment was delayed because of technical difficulties, and will begin Friday, Palestinian commanders said.

Training for the deployment, three police jeeps carrying armed police officers in full uniform drove down the main street of the southern town of Khan Yunis on Thursday. In a practice run, officers set up a checkpoint on the main road, while a commander instructed them on how to conduct security checks.

Despite the delay, optimism was running relatively high after Israeli and Palestinian officials held their first round of diplomatic talks in months Wednesday, and the sides looked toward the possibility of a Sharon-Abbas summit in the next two weeks.

"There is no doubt Abu Mazen [Abbas] has started to work," Sharon was quoted as saying in the Israeli newspaper Yediot Ahronot. "I am very satisfied with what I am hearing is happening on the Palestinian side and I am very interested in advancing processes with him."

The developments signaled the possibility of a new era of Israeli-Palestinian relations, and among the Palestinians themselves.

In the Yediot interview, Sharon said he would not stop all Israeli military operations for the time being, but would make gestures toward the new Palestinian leader. He did not elaborate.

"I intend to advance the chance for an opportunity for an agreement with the Palestinians, I intend to make gestures toward Abu Mazen and at the same time keep my eyes open and examine the situation on their side," Sharon said.

In Wednesday's diplomatic meeting, Palestinian negotiators proposed a joint cease-fire declaration, Erekat said. Israeli officials have said in the past they are not interested in such a formal declaration. The Palestinians are reluctant to declare a truce unilaterally, without U.S.-backed guarantees that Israel will halt military operations and a formal Israeli commitment to a truce.

Erekat said his Israeli counterparts agreed to consider the idea of a declaration.

"They [the Israelis] did not reject this. They will give us the final answer next week," he said.

The internationally backed "road map" peace plan requires both sides to issue end-of-violence declarations. The plan never got off the ground, but there are renewed hopes it can be revived.

Abbas was asked Thursday about reports that he is seeking a cease-fire declaration within two weeks. "We are very interested in the issue of the cease-fire, and the issue of a declaration of a cease-fire, and we've informed the Israelis of this, and the Israelis have to respond quickly and not wait for another two or three weeks," Abbas said. "Such an issue cannot bear waiting."

He spoke to reporters Thursday, before leaving the West Bank for visits to Jordan, Egypt, Switzerland, Russia and Turkey.

Sharon spokesman Asaf Shariv said Israel is examining the Palestinian proposals. "I don't know if a cease-fire is the right wording," he said. "If there is quiet on the Palestinian side, Israel will respond with quiet."
Source
0 Replies
 
stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 12:27 pm
M3 is a real comedian and romantic dreamer.
Your arrognant tone and insults appear to come from a deep seated self hatred maybe that you possibley want to lash out with insults towards me. What ever your problem i prayer Jehovah God cures you of these problem since i am not hear to exchange insults but discuss issues.

M3 thinks he is the official jewish american spokenman of the Shias of Iraq and also the representative of George bush.

the reality is:
point 1.
One of the most enior Iraqi Shia clerics had thi to say about the true feelings of Shia Iraqis concerning their country and its future. Shaikh Muhammad Mahdi al-Khalissi has issued a statement in November 2004

"This occupation is based on Zionist motivations. Its first aim is to destroy the state of Iraq, which has always resisted the hegemony of Zionism," he said.
"I can assure you they do not want to build the country. They do not carry any good intention. All that they want is a weak Iraq that cannot rise against Israel."

point 2
Since the invasion of Iraq the leader of the Shia Sistani has categorically refused to sit, talk or even meet with any US representatives.
Maybe seperation makes the heart grow fonder?
Which explains why M3 sits in the US dreaming and not in JEHAOVAHS PROMISED LAND tasting the joy.

point3
The 'election' in iraq is based on proportional representation this was to ensure the sunnis would not stand any chance even if the agreed to participate, however the point that we need to consider is that art least 3 of the top parties that wil be given seats guaranteed are trained and orginally based from iran and ince the americans have no chocie but to deal with these guys they have decided to put up and shut up placing one condition that Alwai is relected with some of his gang as well as the Shia majority, THAT WAS THE DEAL.

point4
If Iran isnt a problem M3 and never will be i suggest you write to Bush and tell him Mossads scare mongering is just that! scare mongering.

Oh and if you think that my point in rasing the issue of rise in antisemitism is Jew hating then i guess the haulacaust memorial is really out of order.
the point about the russain MPs was related to the worlds shift away from appreciating the wrong of antisemitism and if israel decides to nuke the arabs they will completely lose the sympathy vote whcih as my example points out is wearing thin.

As Rabbi Simeon said :
The world stands upon three things: upon justice, upon truth and upon peace
(MISHNAH, Avoth I)

Maybe M3 you need to think about the Bar Kokhba Revolt and what followed it it was only after that the jewish people decide to pursue the policy of concilitaion with romans.
0 Replies
 
Moishe3rd
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jan, 2005 07:23 pm
stevewonder wrote:
Maybe M3 you need to think about the Bar Kokhba Revolt and what followed it it was only after that the jewish people decide to pursue the policy of concilitaion with romans.

Shocked Shocked
Hmmm, that must have been a successful policy...
Quote:
The final battle of the war took place in Bethar, Bar-Kokhba's headquarters, which housed both the Sanhedrin (Jewish High Court) and the home of the Nasi (leader). Bethar was a vital military stronghold because of its strategic location on a mountain ridge overlooking both the Valley of Sorek and the important Jerusalem-Bet Guvrin Road. Thousands of Jewish refugees fled to Bethar during the war. In 135 C.E., Hadrian's army besieged Bethar and on the 9th of Av, the Jewish fast day commemorating the destruction of the first and second Holy Temples, the walls of Bethar fell. After a fierce battle, every Jew in Bethar was killed. Six days passed before the Romans allowed the Jews to bury their dead.

Following the battle of Bethar, there were a few small skirmishes in the Judean Desert Caves, but the war was essentially over and Judean independence was lost. The Romans plowed Jerusalem with a yoke of oxen. Jews were sold into slavery and many were transported to Egypt. Judean settlements were not rebuilt. Jerusalem was turned into a pagan city called Aelia Capitolina and the Jews were forbidden to live there. They were permitted to enter only on the 9th of Av to mourn their losses in the revolt. Hadrian changed the country's name from Judea to Syria Palestina.

In the years following the revolt, Hadrian discriminated against all Judeo-Christian sects, but the worst persecution was directed against religious Jews. He made anti-religious decrees forbidding Torah study, Sabbath observance, circumcision, Jewish courts, meeting in synagogues and other ritual practices. Many Jews assimilated and many sages and prominent men were martyred including Rabbi Akiva and the rest of the Asara Harugei Malchut (ten martyrs). This age of persecution lasted throughout the remainder of Hadrian's reign, until 138 C.E. Source

Study history. Learn. Grow. Smile
0 Replies
 
stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jan, 2005 03:22 pm
you really dont undertand what i am saying. it amaze me. you last quote is the whole point im trying to make. The outcome of a decisive battle has significant implications.!

This i what i have said earlier you just have not understood history and here again you throwing a quote to higlight my point.

Let me explain in other simpler terms.
Dont hate anyone too much you may have to love them tomorrow and dont love someone too much today you may have to hate them tomorrow.

Dont say anything that is too bitter because tomorrow you may have to swallow your own words.

You are encouraging injustice and expcet to be treated fairly yourself. You want people to treat you humanly and yet you dont recognise the humanity of others.

As Rabbi Simeon said :
The world stands upon three things: upon justice, upon truth and upon peace
(MISHNAH, Avoth I)
0 Replies
 
stevewonder
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Jan, 2005 03:32 pm
"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! Woe to men mighty at drinking wine, woe to men valiant for mixing intoxicating drink, who justify the wicked for a bribe, and take away justice from the righteous man! Therefore, as the fire devours the stubble, and the flame consumes the chaff, so their root will be as rottenness, and their blossom will ascend like dust; because they have rejected the law of the Lord of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel. Therefore, the anger of the Lord is aroused against them and stricken them, and the hills trembled. Their carcasses were as refuse in the middle of the streets. For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still." (5:20-25)
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2005 05:49 pm
Rice: $100 A Month To Terrorists "on Pension"
13:01 Feb 04, '05 / 25 Shevat 5765


U.S. Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice has proposed a $100 monthly allowance to terrorists who agree to lay down their arms and retire or find another profession.



The money would be part of a $350 million package deal announced by U.S. President George Bush this past week. The Bush administration suggested that Congress consent to send $41 million immediately for an “immediate impact in support of democratic transition.” Under Congressional rules, the money would go for specific projects, and not directly to the Palestinian Administration (PA).

Rice, about to pay her first visit to the Middle East in her new position as successor to Colin Powell, wants part of the money to go directly to “retired” terrorists. Speaking between visits to European countries, she proposed a pension fund for at least 1,000 terrorists.

President Bush's offer of $350 million came after American disappointment at assistance that Arab states have offered. The American aid is to be earmarked for new and modern border crossings, road and water infrastructure, and education and health programs.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Mar, 2005 06:34 pm
PA Television: We Haven't Given Up on Netanya and Tel Aviv
11:59 Feb 09, '05 / 30 Shevat 5765


Though he reiterated his promise at the Sharm el-Sheikh ceremony, Abu Mazen's commitment to halt incitement to violence and hatred on official PA TV was already violated this past Friday.


In late January, PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) toured PA Television studios, instructing the director to tone down incitement as well as programs heaping praise upon him. Just this past Friday, a sermon was aired on PA TV outlining the planned destruction of the Jewish State.

Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) has translated the sermon into English and publicized it.

PMW Director Itamar Marcus explained: “The Palestinian Authority, in its Arabic messages to its people, has always denied Israel's right to exist and has often presented the peace process as a tactic leading to Israel's destruction. This goal was repeated Friday, on the Palestinian Authority television, in the official sermon.”

The sermon was delivered by senior Islamic Imam Ibrahim Mudyris. The Imam explained that the limitation of the diplomatic process is that it can only conquer up to Israel’s 1967 borders. He said that at a later stage the PA will achieve its goal of bringing about the complete destruction of Israel - the “return to the 1948 borders” and the towns of “Haifa, Jaffa, Lod, Ramla, Natanyah [Al-Zuhour] and Tel Aviv [Tel Al-Rabia].”

The following is the text of the Friday sermon, broadcast on official PA television on February 4, 2005:

Imam Ibrahim Mudyris:
"We do not love any land more than the land of Palestine. Had the Jews not expelled us from it with their planes, their tanks, their weapons, their treachery around us, we would never leave you, O Palestine. (Quotes Muhammad, who promised he would return to Mecca as a conqueror).

“We tell you Palestine, we shall return to you, by Allah’s will. We shall return to every village, every town, and every grain of earth which was quenched by the blood of our grandparents and the sweat of our fathers and mothers. We shall return, we shall return. Our willingness to return to the 1967 borders does not mean that we have given up on the land of Palestine. No!

“We ask you: Do we have the right to the 1967 borders? We have the right. Therefore, we shall realize this right with any mean it takes. We might be able to use diplomacy in order to return to the 1967 borders, but we shall not be able to use diplomacy in order to return to the 1948 borders.

“No one on this earth recognizes [our right to] the 1948 borders [before Israel’s existence]. Therefore, we shall return to the 1967 borders, but it does not mean that we have given up on Jerusalem and Haifa, Jaffa, Lod, Ramla, Natanyah [Al-Zuhour] and Tel Aviv [Tel Al-Rabia]. Never.

“We shall return to every village we had been expelled from, by Allah’s will. Why? All the international laws deny the Palestinians their real borders. We might agree, but in the name of Allah, our grandfathers’ blood demands that we return to them [the borders]. Your fathers' blood was shed there, at the villages, at Ashqelon, at Ashdod, at Hirbia [a village between Gaza and Ashqelon, where Kibbutz Zikim is located today] and at others places, hundreds of villages and towns. [Their blood] demands it from us, and it shall curse anyone who will concede a grain of earth of those villages.

“Our approval to return to the 1967 borders is not a concession for our other rights. No!... this generation might not achieve this stage, but generations will come, and the land of Palestine... will demand that the Palestinians will return the way Muhammad returned there - as a conqueror.”
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