Eye On Israel/Palestine

>If arab dictators are over thrown, Israel i finished and the is a clear indication that will happen sooner rather than later.

Yes i would be delighted to discuss each point with you. lets start with the one you have quoted.
The fact that saddam (maddas) has been over thrown places Israel security in the worse situation ever. Why?
Well realsitcally we all know that Saddam especially during the 1980s was chums with the US, he was a secularist and surpressed the Islamic miltants and the Shia. Secularist like sadat, mubarak, hussein (Jordon), etc have always been the quickest to make peace wth and accept israel.

Who are among the biggest problems for Israel: hezbollah and Iran just now. yet US has removed a secularist 'no hoper' and replaced them with an iran backed shia majority. these guys saught refuge for decades in iran from saddam. Now they are gonna run the country.
For any one with any political analytical skills can see the Shia not participating in miltancy but they are bidding their time to take power.

On the other hand US has radicalised the previously passified sunnis.
Now the thing with pro israelis is that they lose their rational faculties and start becoming emotional and hyterical as you have shown.
the world will still go on even if you nuked arab countries and all jewish people need to think about how we gonna live in the world attached with that tagg of nuking innocent people?
Just yesterday it has been announced in russia MPS are calling openly for anti-semitic laws to be introduced. Neo nazi Right wingers will have a field day if Israel ever used its nukes.

Saddam was the 'guard dog' that kept Islamic fundamentalism in place in Iraq, the crazy tactics of the US has now unleashed these guys.
The insurgency are Sunni Islamic radicals fighting americans

the Shia are Islamic radicals about to win elections, make no mistakes they are an extension of th Iranian clergy, 60% of Iraqis are Shia who are loyal to Sistani who is a Cleric not a secularist.
Dont you guys get it there is no secular option left in iraq.
the bottom line is the clerics will be ruling Iraq tommorrow. Question: will they kiss and make up with israel, and tell their Shia brothers in Hezbollah in Lebonan to behave themselves. what do you think?

Iraq and Israel will make natural allies.

Moishe wrote:

Iraq and Israel will make natural allies.

How do you figure?

Insurgents Vowing to Kill Iraqis Who Brave the Polls on Sunday
By DEXTER FILKINS

AGHDAD, Iraq, Jan. 25 - The black sedan made its way down Madaris Street, the young men inside tossing leaflets out the window.

"This is a final warning to all of those who plan to participate in the election," the leaflets said. "We vow to wash the streets of Baghdad with the voters' blood."

Thus was the war over Sunday's nationwide elections crystallized in a single incident on Tuesday in Mashtal, an ethnically mixed neighborhood on the eastern edge of Baghdad, where many Iraqis say they would like to vote, and where a small, determined group of people are doing everything they can to stop them.

The leaflets, like many turning up on sidewalks and doorsteps across the capital, were chilling in their detail: they warned Iraqis to stay at least 500 yards away from voting booths, for each would be the potential target of a rocket, mortar shell or car bomb. The leaflet suggested that Iraqis stay away from their windows, too, in case of blasts.

"To those of you who think you can vote and then run away," the leaflet warned, "we will shadow you and catch you, and we will cut off your heads and the heads of your children."
Source - The New York Times

Israel refuses to rule out attack on Iran
By Anne Penketh, Diplomatic Editor
27 January 2005


Israel's Defence Minister refused to rule out a pre-empt-ive strike on Iran yesterday, claiming that Tehran was "close to a point of no return" on its suspected development of a nuclear weapon.

At a meeting with journalists in London, Shaul Mofaz did little to dispel the sense of unease caused by comments last week by the US Vice-President, Dick Cheney, who suggested Israel might "decide to act first" to end Iran's nuclear threat.

Mr Mofaz said: "I believe that none of the Western countries can live with Iran having a nuclear capability - not the US, not the European countries and nor other countries."

But he stressed that the "first step" should be through diplomatic channels to resolve the standoff with Iran, suspected by the US and Israel of using its civilian programme as a cover for weapons development.

"The way to stop Iran is by the leadership of the US, supported by European countries and taking this issue to the UN, and using the diplomatic channel with sanctions as a tool and a very deep inspection regime and full transparency."

Asked what Israel would do if diplomatic channels failed, Mr Mofaz went on: "The US is a strong power that can stop any kind of nuclear programme, especially in the hands of an extreme regime."

The Israeli minister left no doubt, however, he was sceptical about the outcome of negotiations with the Iranian government, which he said had been "buying time" through talks with Britain, France and Germany.

He warned that Tehran was "less than a year" from enriching uranium, which he described as the "point of no return" towards making a nuclear weapon. He echoed comments by the Mossad intelligence agency, which said that Iran could have developed a nuclear bomb in three years, a statement dismissed by Iran as baseless. Mr Mofaz rejected Iranian assertions that it was working on a peaceful civilian programme, saying that there was "no goal by the Iranian side for a civilian programme. Their goal is to achieve a military programme".

Pressure on Iran has been increasing recently in the form of aggressive statements from the Bush administration, branding the Tehran regime an "outpost of tyranny". Mr Cheney said Iran's nuclear programme put it at the "top of the list" of global issues.

The Iranian President, Mohamed Khatami, retorted: "We say that America is at the top of the list of countries that are endangering world peace and security and we hope that one day they come to their senses.

"[Negotiations with the EU] haven't reached a dead end," Mr Khatami went on. "Of course, we have our own stances and we are talking to the Europeans and we hope to reach a conclusion." Iran has agreed to suspend activities which could be used to make nuclear bomb material, such as uranium enrichment, and to try to reach a negotiated solution. But Mr Mofaz said: "Although there are some achievements by the suspension of the military programme, there is not a full stop."

PA bans civilians from carrying weapons


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The Associated Press, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 27, 2005

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The Palestinians are waiting for a quick Israeli response to the proposal of a mutual cease-fire declaration, Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas said Thursday.

An Israeli official said Israel has not ruled out the idea.

Signaling PA efforts to reign in violence, Palestinian prime minister Ahmed Qureia issued an order on Thursday banning civilians from carrying weapons in the Palestinian territories, Cabinet Minister Saeb Erekat told the AP.

The order was signed during a security meeting among senior officials in the West Bank city of Ramallah.

A flurry of bilateral meetings on Wednesday raised hopes that the sides can reach an agreement on ending four years of bloodshed.

Israeli government spokesman Raanan Gissin refused to comment on the meetings, but Israel has said it would respond to "quiet with quiet.".

In southern Gaza on Friday, Palestinian police practiced for deployment in some of the most volatile areas of the coastal strip. Abbas, meanwhile, won praise from Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and visiting US envoy William Burns for his efforts to halt violence.

In a test for Abbas's ruling Fatah movement, the first municipal elections in Gaza's history was being held Thursday in 10 districts in the coastal strip. The terrorist groups Hamas and Islamic Jihad were expected to pose a stiff challenge to Fatah in the races.

Abbas has won assurances from armed groups that they will halt attacks on Israel, provided Israel stops military operations, including arrest raids and targeted killings of Palestinian fugitives. Abbas told reporters Thursday that he expects to hear from Israel "as soon as possible" on his offer of a cease-fire declaration.

Mohammed Dahlan, a senior Abbas adviser, said in an interview with The Associated Press that Israel had agreed in principle to stop pursuing militants and halt the targeted killings.

Dahlan said the Israeli assurance came in a meeting a day earlier between senior Palestinian and Israeli officials. Dahlan participated in the meeting.

A senior Palestinian official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Israel promised in the meeting to release hundreds of prisoners - a key Palestinian demand - and that the number to be freed is expected to be about 900.

The official also said that Abbas and his prime minister Ahmed Qureia had decided to name Nasser Yousef as the new Palestinian interior minister. Yousef had been in charge of cracking down on terrorists in the 1990s, and his appointment would send a clear signal that the Palestinian leadership intends to rein in violence.

In central and southern Gaza, Palestinian police were to have taken up positions on Thursday. However, deployment was delayed because of technical difficulties, and will begin Friday, Palestinian commanders said.

Training for the deployment, three police jeeps carrying armed police officers in full uniform drove down the main street of the southern town of Khan Yunis on Thursday. In a practice run, officers set up a checkpoint on the main road, while a commander instructed them on how to conduct security checks.

Despite the delay, optimism was running relatively high after Israeli and Palestinian officials held their first round of diplomatic talks in months Wednesday, and the sides looked toward the possibility of a Sharon-Abbas summit in the next two weeks.

"There is no doubt Abu Mazen [Abbas] has started to work," Sharon was quoted as saying in the Israeli newspaper Yediot Ahronot. "I am very satisfied with what I am hearing is happening on the Palestinian side and I am very interested in advancing processes with him."

The developments signaled the possibility of a new era of Israeli-Palestinian relations, and among the Palestinians themselves.

In the Yediot interview, Sharon said he would not stop all Israeli military operations for the time being, but would make gestures toward the new Palestinian leader. He did not elaborate.

"I intend to advance the chance for an opportunity for an agreement with the Palestinians, I intend to make gestures toward Abu Mazen and at the same time keep my eyes open and examine the situation on their side," Sharon said.

In Wednesday's diplomatic meeting, Palestinian negotiators proposed a joint cease-fire declaration, Erekat said. Israeli officials have said in the past they are not interested in such a formal declaration. The Palestinians are reluctant to declare a truce unilaterally, without U.S.-backed guarantees that Israel will halt military operations and a formal Israeli commitment to a truce.

Erekat said his Israeli counterparts agreed to consider the idea of a declaration.

"They [the Israelis] did not reject this. They will give us the final answer next week," he said.

The internationally backed "road map" peace plan requires both sides to issue end-of-violence declarations. The plan never got off the ground, but there are renewed hopes it can be revived.

Abbas was asked Thursday about reports that he is seeking a cease-fire declaration within two weeks. "We are very interested in the issue of the cease-fire, and the issue of a declaration of a cease-fire, and we've informed the Israelis of this, and the Israelis have to respond quickly and not wait for another two or three weeks," Abbas said. "Such an issue cannot bear waiting."

He spoke to reporters Thursday, before leaving the West Bank for visits to Jordan, Egypt, Switzerland, Russia and Turkey.

Sharon spokesman Asaf Shariv said Israel is examining the Palestinian proposals. "I don't know if a cease-fire is the right wording," he said. "If there is quiet on the Palestinian side, Israel will respond with quiet."

Maybe M3 you need to think about the Bar Kokhba Revolt and what followed it it was only after that the jewish people decide to pursue the policy of concilitaion with romans.

The final battle of the war took place in Bethar, Bar-Kokhba's headquarters, which housed both the Sanhedrin (Jewish High Court) and the home of the Nasi (leader). Bethar was a vital military stronghold because of its strategic location on a mountain ridge overlooking both the Valley of Sorek and the important Jerusalem-Bet Guvrin Road. Thousands of Jewish refugees fled to Bethar during the war. In 135 C.E., Hadrian's army besieged Bethar and on the 9th of Av, the Jewish fast day commemorating the destruction of the first and second Holy Temples, the walls of Bethar fell. After a fierce battle, every Jew in Bethar was killed. Six days passed before the Romans allowed the Jews to bury their dead.

Following the battle of Bethar, there were a few small skirmishes in the Judean Desert Caves, but the war was essentially over and Judean independence was lost. The Romans plowed Jerusalem with a yoke of oxen. Jews were sold into slavery and many were transported to Egypt. Judean settlements were not rebuilt. Jerusalem was turned into a pagan city called Aelia Capitolina and the Jews were forbidden to live there. They were permitted to enter only on the 9th of Av to mourn their losses in the revolt. Hadrian changed the country's name from Judea to Syria Palestina.

In the years following the revolt, Hadrian discriminated against all Judeo-Christian sects, but the worst persecution was directed against religious Jews. He made anti-religious decrees forbidding Torah study, Sabbath observance, circumcision, Jewish courts, meeting in synagogues and other ritual practices. Many Jews assimilated and many sages and prominent men were martyred including Rabbi Akiva and the rest of the Asara Harugei Malchut (ten martyrs). This age of persecution lasted throughout the remainder of Hadrian's reign, until 138 C.E. Source