Eye On Israel/Palestine

Just for jollies...
It is theorized that a "new age" is going to come about when Gog and Magog join together to attack Jerusalem.
One identification of Gog and Magog is that they are the descendants of Esav and Yishmael; which is Rome and the Arabs; which is Islam and (Christian) Europe...
The idea is that when they all band together to condemn... oops, I mean attack, Israel, then the end times are near....
Shocked

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http://www.gogmagog.co.uk/

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Israel expands West Bank settlements

Quote:

Months after Ariel Sharon announced his dramatic plan to pull Jewish settlers out of Gaza, portraying it as a sacrifice for peace, the government is grabbing more land for West Bank settlements.

Israeli peace groups and Palestinian officials say thousands of homes are under construction in the main settlements, in addition to an expansion of Jewish outposts that are illegal under Israeli law. Mr Sharon has promised the US he will dismantle the outposts, which are usually clusters of containers or trailer homes serviced by government-built roads, but has failed to do so.

One Israeli group, Settlement Watch, says in the three months to May, West Bank settlements expanded by 26 hectares (65 acres).The government has approved construction of thousands more homes in the three main settlement blocs on the West Bank, encouraged by an apparent endorsement by George Bush for their eventual annexation.

In a letter to Mr Sharon, Mr Bush praised the Gaza pullout and agreed that "in light of new realities on the ground, including already existing major Israeli populations centres", it was unrealistic to expect a full return to the 1967 borders.

Dror Etkes, head of Settlement Watch, said that the expansion of Jewish outposts and continuing house building since Mr Sharon announced his plan in December was evidence that the government was seeking more territory.

"The government is trying to push the boundaries of the settlements as much as possible before they are frozen," he said. "The new rule of the game we have seen in past weeks is the diameter of permitted construction area in the West Bank has grown. The purpose is to expand as fast as possible because of negotiations with the US to limit future construction to areas already under construction."

Actually:What about the roadmap? ...

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Important News

UN agent: Apartheid in territories worse than S. Africa

Quote:

South African law professor John Dugard, the special rapporteur for the United Nations on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian territories, has written in a report to the UN General Assembly that there is "an apartheid regime" in the territories "worse than the one that existed in South Africa."

As an example, Dugard points to the roads only open to settlers, from which Palestinians are banned.

In his report, presented early this month, Dugard is highly critical of Israel for its "continuing violations of human rights in the territories." He said Israel is blatantly violating the International Court of Justice's ruling on the separation fence, and has declared it will not obey it.

The report was disseminated among the member countries ahead of the September General Assembly session meant to discuss the fence.

Dugard was a member of a Truth Commission at the end of the apartheid regime, and was appointed by the UN in 2001 as special rapporteur for human rights in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

He called for a general arms embargo against Israel in May, in response to the IDF operations in Rafah, similar to the arms embargo imposed on South Africa in 1977.

According to government sources in Jerusalem, Israel is currently leaning toward cooperating with the various rapporteurs of the UN, and responding to their questions and requests.

But there are two exceptions to that rule: Dugard, and the special rapporteur for food, Jean Zigler. Israel refuses to cooperate with them because of the language of their mandates, and what it regards as their unfair approach. According to the sources, Dugard's assignment was phrased in a way that discriminates against Israel.

But the government does not prevent Dugard from traveling in the territories and Israel, to meet people and to report as he wishes.

Haaretz

Finally the U.N has clear condemned the wall. Maybe the professor get more support soon?

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The hungerstrike in jail finally end for some:

Some Palestinians halt hunger strike

Quote:

Some 800 Palestinian detainees in Israel's Ashkelon prison have suspended their 13-day-old hunger strike until Monday after some of their demands were met.

The concessions made by the prison governor affect only the Ashkelon detainees, and the other 3200 Palestinian prisoners who have been protesting for better conditions remain on hunger strike, the Bethlehem-based Palestinian prisoners' association said on Friday.

The association said the prison authorities had agreed to end practices of placing in small cells those prisoners who were being disciplined, as well as of "humiliating" body searches of prisoners who had been stripped naked.

The prison would also provide better food and relax restrictions on visits by prisoners' relatives.

Pursuing talks

The suspension of the strike until Monday was to allow prisoners to pursue talks with the authorities on other demands, as well as to see whether the improved measures would be extended to other facilities, the group said.

Some 8000 Palestinians are currently held in Israeli prisons, with up to a half thought to have been refusing food.

More than 13 international organisations operating in the Palestinian territories have expressed concern over the strike.

The Israeli government had said it would not negotiate with the prisoners, and Public Security Minister Tzahi Hanegbi had said he is prepared to watch them die.

UN call

But in a statement issued on Friday, the UN's top envoy to the region urged Israel to resolve its dispute with the prisoners and guarantee their health.

Terje Roed-Larsen "called on the Israeli authorities to comply with its international obligations and to make every effort to find, with the prisoners, an appropriate resolution to the hunger strike".

"The UN agencies and offices remind Israel of its obligations under the fourth Geneva Convention and relevant international human rights instruments which provide for the protection of detainees and prisoners," he added.

Link

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Quote:

US examines 'Israeli spy' claim

The FBI is investigating reports that a highly placed Pentagon official spied for Israel, the US defence department has confirmed.
The FBI reportedly suspects the analyst gave Israel access to secret material regarding US policy towards Iran.

US broadcaster CBS television said the suspect has ties to leading officials at the Pentagon.

Israel, a close US ally, has described the spying allegation as "completely false and outrageous".

The suspected spy is said to have links to Douglas Feith, a key adviser to Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

Mr Feith, along with Deputy Defence Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, is believed to have played a key role in planning the US invasion of Iraq in 2003.

An arrest could be made as early as next week, according to an official interviewed by the Associated Press news agency.

'Directive leaked'

The BBC's Nick Childs in Washington says this is potentially a very serious development because Israel is one of America's closest allies.

However, he adds that Israel has been accused of spying on the US before.

A former US navy intelligence analyst, Jonathan Pollard, was arrested in 1985 and sentenced to life imprisonment.

Citing unnamed sources, CBS reports that the alleged Pentagon spy handed over the draft of a US presidential directive concerning policy towards Iran last year.

"This put the Israelis - according to one of our sources - 'inside the decision-making loop' so they could 'try to influence the outcome'," the television report said.

Nuclear nerves

The investigation into the alleged spy apparently involved the use of electronic surveillance devices, including wiretaps.

An anonymous security official interviewed by AP appears to confirm a claim in the CBS report that the alleged spy is thought to have passed on the classified information to a pro-Israel lobby group, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (Aipac).

However, Aipac spokesman Josh Block said the claim was "baseless and false".

He said the group "would not condone or tolerate for a second any violation of US law or interests".

David Siegel, a spokesman for Israel's embassy in Washington said it "categorically" denied the allegations.

Iran and Israel are openly suspicious of each other's nuclear intentions and capabilities.

Israel has said it will carry out a pre-emptive strike against Iranian nuclear reactors if it feels threatened. Iran, in turn, has warned it will hit back with a similar strike on Israel.

Source

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yes, that's also the cause.

For more informations:
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32369

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long time, now a terror attack again:

Quote:

At least 12 people were killed and 50 others wounded in near-simultaneous explosions on two buses in the southern Israeli city of Beer Sheva Tuesday, Israeli police and ambulance services said.

Television pictures from the scene showed emergency personnel attending the wounded and burning wreckage. The explosions took place near the city center.

Police could not say whether the blasts were the result of suicide bombings.

The Palestinian Authority immediately condemned the attacks and the targeting of any civilians -- Israelis or Palestinians.

Authorities in Beer Sheva said there has never been a suicide bombing in this working-class city, the capital of the Negev desert with a population of about 200,000 people.
Attacks few in past months

There have only been a few attacks in Israel since late winter.

On July 11, a bombing at a Tel Aviv bus stop killed a woman and wounded more than 20 other people.

On April 17, military officials said, a suicide bomber launched an attack inside the Erez industrial zone at the Israel-Gaza border, killing a border police officer and wounding three others.

And on March 14, twin suicide bombs in the Israeli port city of Ashdod killed 10 people and wounded over 20.

The explosion came on a day that Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon announced a timetable for his plan to disengage -- withdrawing all settlers and soldiers from Gaza and portions of the West Bank.

Sharon said he plans for the law authorizing the disengagement to go before Israel's parliament on November 3.

Link

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The conflict escalate also outside Israels:

Explosions hit resorts near Egypt-Israeli border

Quote:

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There is growing Palestinian civil strife effected by opposition to Yasser Arafat, the latest symptom being an assassination attempt on Moussa Arafat, relative of Yasser and nepotistic official within the PA. Yasser's appointment of Moussa as Chief of Security provoked a wave of violence this past summer. Also, Gaza's police chief had been abducted by Yasser's own Fatah movement whom they accused of corruption and abuse of power. The possibility of an overthrow of the PA portends a power grab by the religionist extremists, namely Hamas.

Meanwhile in Israel, the first Knesset vote on Ariel Sharon's Gaza Pullout Plan is weeks away, and it seems likely that Sharon will enlist the help of the Labor Party to push his plan through, splintering the unity of his Likud centered coalition. Sharon's unilateral move is aimed at heading off international efforts to force Israel to make deeper concessions to the Palestinians in any further peace negotiations.

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According to Al Jazeera:
http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/middle_east_full_story.asp?service_id=5334

Israeli officers threaten to quit the army
10/24/2004 9:14:00 AM GMT

Several Israeli officers have threatened to quit the army

Senior military officers threatened that they would quit the Israeli army in protest against Sharon's plan to withdraw settlers from Gaza.

Several Israeli officers have threatened to do the same thing so that not to participate in dismantling Jewish settlements in the Gaza Strip.

Other army members are expected to follow their lead if Sharon?s disengagement plan was approved by the Israeli parliament, expected to meet this week.

The prospect of disorder in the Israeli army is among the most serious crises Israel has ever faced since its foundation in 1948.

Israel Harel, a founder of the settler movement, said that at least four officers from his West Bank settlement are considering quitting the army.

"This issue is a big emotional crisis for Israel," he said.

"At the same time they cannot refuse orders, so they are in a terrible dilemma.

"If you have men of such standing leaving the army, others will follow. This is going to be a major problem."

Although none of the "refusenik" soldiers has been identified, The Telegraph interviewed one major from an elite unit who has been at the forefront of several operations over the past four years.

The major, who refused to be named, said that his contract should be renewed in two months, which will give him the chance to leave the army before the implementation of Sharon?s plan starts next year.

Rafi Reches, a 34-year-old reservist, was one of several soldiers who told Haaretz newspaper that they would disobey orders to dismantle Jewish settlements.

"The rift that refusal will create in the army is nothing like the rift that will rupture the country if settlements are evacuated," he said. "The rift in the army will heal, the rift in the nation won't."

Fears of a split within the Israeli military is threatening Mr Sharon's disengagement plan.

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And - Al Jazeera warns of "Civil War" in Israel:

Justice minister warns of civil war in Israel
10/21/2004 12:20:00 PM GMT

The Israeli justice minister has warned that with the rabbis urging religious soldiers to disobey military orders to evacuate Jewish settlements in Gaza, Israel is threatened with a possible civil war.

Speaking on Wednesday to Israel's bar association, Justice Minister Yosef Lapid, said that he supports whoever condemns rabbis who seek to undermine Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's disengagement plan to evacuate Jewish settlement for Gaza Strip next year.

"I would like to issue a warning to far-right rabbis and activists," Lapid said.

"There are limits to the justice system's patience with those who spread sedition among the religiously observant and risk bringing about civil war and bloodshed."

Israel is facing mounting political tension ahead of next week?s parliamentary vote on Sharon's plan to dismantle 21 settlements in the Gaza Strip and four of 120 enclaves in the West Bank.

Sharon?s policy has split his coalition and polarized public opinion, with several prominent ultra-nationalist rabbis saying soldiers should reject military orders to evacuate settlements.

Polls showed that most Israelis agree on quitting Gaza settlements, saying that staying there has become a risk for settlers? lives.

On the other hand, Sharon's far-right opponents say that withdrawing from Gaza is marking the Palestinians' victory.

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And - Al Jazeera reports on an anti-Zionist Jewish rabbi - who sees Zionism being to Judaism as Islamist extremists are to Islam:

http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/review/article_full_story.asp?service_id=5292

Rabi: 'Zionism and Judaism are extreme opposites'
10/20/2004 8:00:00 PM GMT

God commands human beings to be compassionate, and not to steal

In this day of religious extremism one can be forgiven to 'paint everyone with the same brush'. Just as extremists who claim to be Muslims do not represent an entire religion the same should be noted with Judaism, Zionists do not represent all Jews.

A group of 'ultra-Orthodox' Jews called Neturei Karta, which translates to (Guardians of the City) are fiercely anti-Zionist, and they call for the unconditional return of the Holy Land to its indigenous inhabitants, the Palestinians.

When the first Zionists came to Palestine in the early 1900s, they were met by a community of Jews who'd been living in Palestine for decades, but who saw themselves as guests of the local Arabs, rather than settlers. This community of Jews embraced a diaspora theology, and they understood exile as a divinely-ordained condition for the Jewish people.

As the Zionist movement took root in Palestine, this community of Jews styled themselves as 'Guardians of the City', or Neturei Karta, and to this day they inhabit a sector of Jerusalem where they refuse to have any dealings, either political or economic, with the surrounding State of Israel.

Rabbi Yisroel Weiss is the groups' spokesman in New York from where it operates as part of a worldwide network.

In an interview with ABC Australia Rabbi Yisroel Weiss stated:

Jews were sent into exile; this is clearly accepted in the books of the prophets, Jeremiah and so forth, that God gave the land to the Children of Israel, gave them the land of Israel, and he said, 'Listen, this is a Holy Land, this is my land, and I'm giving it to you with the stipulation that you must serve me properly and be a holy nation, and if you sin I will send you into exile'.

And then it's clearly stated in the Talmud, that the Jews were told by God that 'I will take you back' - God himself will take the Jewish people back - 'and until that time, do not try to leave exile, do not try to fight the nations, you have to be a loyal citizen in every country and be a fine Jew, an example of a proper human being.' So we never tried to leave this exile.

Until Zionism came, and they just didn't accept it, this whole belief was strange to them. You know, they said 'the people are suffering, and the only way out is to take the matter into our own hands'. So we feel that Zionism and what is happening there - even when they try different peace movements, they try it this way and that way - it cannot be successful.

At the beginning of the Oslo discussions, we said to them - when everybody thought that everything was working out so well - we said 'You will see that you will not be successful, it cannot be successful, because it's against God'.

God commands human beings to be compassionate, and not to steal, and not to cause pain to other people.

Now, when we say that we are hoping to go back to Palestine eventually, it's not with the same ideology as the Zionists. Our belief is that we are waiting for the end of exile, which means when all nations together will serve God peacefully; we will not go with the military against any other country. It means that God will reveal himself, and all nations together will serve God peacefully. That's what we hope for with the end of exile, which is in total contrast to Zionism, which is that you have to fight the Arab people.'

God commands human beings to be compassionate, and not to steal, and not to cause pain to other people. And all these actions that emanate from Zionism - the taking of land, the subjugating of people, the oppression of people and so forth and so on, what goes on there constantly - cannot be done in the name of Judaism, it's just the antithesis of what Judaism is all about. We are a nation of compassion, we are told that just as God is compassionate, we have to emulate God, and that is what is required of a Jew. So how they could they call themselves the State of Israel, and yet do all the atrocities and all the actions that they are doing??.

'The Jewish people lived tremendously peacefully together with the Arab neighbours'

'The Jewish people have existed for thousands of years, and interestingly enough, we've existed amongst the Arab nations, amongst the Muslim nations, in fact we have coexisted on a tremendously good level, they were very good hosts, the Arab nations all throughout the world were very good hosts to the Jewish people. We've lived together wonderfully.

Around the 1920s, the Jewish people lived tremendously peacefully together with the Arab neighbours. They'd babysit each other's children, and Arab people talk about this time, how we lived together, we respected each other, the Arab people went to the rabbi for blessings, and so forth and so on, they coexisted with no trouble whatsoever. So the idea that Muslim people have a certain animosity to Jewish people and they can't live together, this is ridiculous, it's just a farce, when you have a fact in front of you called Zionism, and this just developed around 100 years ago, all of a sudden there's this tremendous animosity. So you put two and two together, and you realise Zionism is the problem.

Our message is to the Jews and to the non-Jews. Our message to the Jews is: remember that you are turning away from God, and you're incurring God's wrath. And to the non-Jewish people, the Arab people, we keep on saying to them: remember that we are not your enemies. And we tell them that you should not hate a Jew; do not become an anti-Semite, do not equate Zionism with Judaism, and remember that the Jewish people have no fight with you. And our idea is, that there will eventually become truly a Palestinian land, where we can live together with the Palestinians as we have done for thousands of years.'

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Al Jazeera meaning "The Island" or "The (Arabian) Peninsula" so note that the website aljazeera.com (magazine) neither aljazeerah.info is not really affiliated with the TV channel Al Jazeera http://english.aljazeera.net

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BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3946451.stm

Mid-East 'drifting towards chaos'

No peace without international involvement, Mr Prendergast said
A senior UN official has warned that no solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will be found without international involvement.
In a briefing to the Security Council, Kieran Prendergast spoke of "a palpable sense of drift and foreboding... towards chaos".

He urged both sides to abandon violence and engage in negotiation.

And he warned that there would be no peaceful agreement if both sides were left to themselves.

Since the start of the latest intifada, or uprising, in September 2000, some 3,839 Palestinians and 979 Israelis had been killed, said Mr Prendergast, the UN Under-Secretary-General for Political Affairs

And an estimated 36,000 Palestinians and 6,297 Israelis had been wounded.

These "staggering" figures, he said, demanded action.

"Are we going to go on like this? Is there not a better way?" he asked.

Neither side, he said, was fulfilling its obligations under the international peace plan known as the road map.

"Even to speak in terms of a peace process seems to put one at a distance from the present reality," he said.

Violence in and around the Gaza Strip has escalated sharply during the past month after Israel launched a major operation in response to a rocket attack from Gaza which killed two Israeli children.

Mr Prendergast said the Palestinian Authority had to make all efforts to stop such attacks against Israeli citizens.

He also called on the Israelis to refrain from the disproportionate use of force.

Frustration

During the two week long military operation, he said, 114 Palestinians were killed in northern Gaza, many of them civilians, including children.

The conflict is costing lives on both sides

Israel's restrictions on movement in the occupied territories, he said, has affected the United Nations' humanitarian agency for the Palestinians, known as UNWRA.

The agency said in a report released on Friday that Israel's 17-day offensive in the northern Gaza strip had left 700 homeless and caused more than $3m in property damage.

Israel says it destroys buildings which hide tunnels that are used to smuggle weapons into Gaza.

Mr Prendergast said that pessimism about peace prospects was coupled with frustration, because the two state solution enjoyed strong support among both the Israeli and the Palestinian public.

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BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3948803.stm

Sharon's risky disengagement move

By Barbara Plett
BBC News, Jerusalem

Israel's parliament is preparing for a crucial vote on Ariel Sharon's plan to pull Jewish settlers out of the Gaza Strip and a small part of the West Bank.

Sharon's disengagement plan has split his party

The prime minister has staked his political leadership on the controversial decision, appearing to reverse a life-long strategy dedicated to colonising Palestinian lands Israel conquered in the 1967 Mid-East War.

The apparent about-face has thrown Israeli politics into turmoil and excluded Palestinians from a process that may set new borders for their future state.

Mr Sharon's disengagement plan has split his Likud Party and alienated him from his traditional constituency, made up of Jewish settlers and other elements of Israel's right wing.

The intensity of the opposition, if not its size - polls show a majority of Israelis support the plan - has raised tensions ahead of the parliamentary vote and fears of violence ahead of any evacuation.

On Tuesday, Israeli lawmakers will be asked to approve the disengagement plan in principle.

It is expected that Ariel Sharon will win with support from the opposition. That would be an important boost to the prime minister, who has lost similar votes in his own party.

But it is only one stage in the battle, says Israeli political analyst Gerald Steinberg: "The divisions will not only still be there, they will probably grow more intense after this vote."

Key condition

Dismantling Jewish settlements has long been seen by the Palestinians, the Israeli peace camp and the world as a key condition for an end to the conflict.

But Mr Sharon's plan is a unilateral move not based on peace negotiations.

Nor will it end the occupation, says Sarah Leah Whitson, executive director of the Middle East Branch of Human Rights Watch, a US human rights organisation.

Mofaz says the plan will be a "strategic achievement"
"The disengagement plan provides that Israel is going to maintain the right to re-enter the territory at will, continue to control the borders, the air space, the sea, and all movement of people into and out of Gaza," she says.

"These are all the characteristics of military control, and if Israel remains in effective military control in Gaza, then it remains an occupying power under law. The only thing that you can really call this is a plan to withdraw Jewish settlers."

It is because of this continued military control that many Palestinians oppose the disengagement plan. They see it as a recipe for further conflict rather than a step towards peace.

"As long as there is no political process that promises Palestinians a peaceful end to the occupation and the Israelis the prospect of peace, violence will continue," says Palestinian cabinet minister Ghassan Khatib. "Such a reality can only lead to re-occupation rather than redeployment or withdrawal."

Strategic achievement

In recent newspaper interviews, Mr Sharon and his government supporters have explained the reasoning behind the move.

Leaving Gaza, they say, is the price for Israel holding onto the large Jewish settlements blocks in the West Bank, behind a new "defensible" border established by the building of a vast barrier Israel says is meant to stop Palestinian attacks.

It is naive to believe that you can throw the international community the bone of disengagement from Gaza, thereby proving that the settlement movement is reversible

Israeli analyst Yossi Alpher

"The disengagement from the Gaza Strip along with the construction of the fence in Judea and Samaria [the West Bank] will lead to a strategic achievement", said Defence Minister Shaul Mofaz. "The settlements in Judea and Samaria will determine borders."

For that to happen, it is crucial Israel is not blocked by any diplomatic process demanding adherence to international law, which requires a full Israeli withdrawal from all Palestinian territory occupied in 1967, or at least mutually agreeable borders negotiated with the Palestinians.

Dov Wiesglass, a key adviser to the prime minister, says this is what the disengagement plan achieves.

"The significance of the disengagement plan is the freezing of the political process. And when you freeze that process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion about the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem. Effectively, this whole package that is called the Palestinian state, with all that it entails, has been removed from our agenda indefinitely."

Some members of Israel's peace camp insist this is wishful thinking. They argue that the unprecedented step of dismantling settlements in Gaza will release a dynamic for further withdrawals that no Israeli government will be able to stop.

"It is naive to believe that you can throw the international community the bone of disengagement from Gaza, thereby proving that the settlement movement is reversible, and thus silence its growing appetite for creating a settlement-free Palestinian state in both the West Bank and Gaza", says Israeli analyst Yossi Alpher.

"On the contrary, you will be showing the world precisely how it can be done, even without a peace process if necessary."

Go Sharon!

What do you think of his chances of pulling it off?

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dlowan wrote:

What do you think of his chances of pulling it off?

A low chance. Because if there is again a major attack by Palestinian militants ,so the Israeli Goverment will declare that they will not pull out from Gaza.

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BBC report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3957067.stm

More storms on horizon for Israel

By Jonathan Marcus
BBC diplomatic correspondent

Israel's Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has won a major battle in obtaining Knesset approval for his disengagement plan.

But it is still far from clear that his proposals will be enacted, and that Israel's settlements in the Gaza Strip will be dismantled as planned next summer.

During his controversial military career, General Sharon was known as a daring commander, always eager to press forward.

It was he who first counter-attacked across the Suez Canal during the 1973 Arab-Israel war.

But then he had the best part of an armoured division behind him. Today, he is dangerously isolated, having been deserted by many of his Likud party supporters.

A key group of Likud ministers who backed the disengagement plan are nonetheless insisting that it be put to a referendum, an idea already rejected by Mr Sharon, that would enable the Israeli public to decide.

Ariel Sharon (right, in 1973) was previously dubbed the "Bulldozer"
This group, which includes Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, a rival for the Likud leadership, has given the prime minister two weeks to change his mind.

If not, they say they will quit the government. And a key coalition ally, the National Religious Party, which also wants a referendum, has made similar threats.

Palestinians are watching this unfolding drama from the sidelines, sceptical about the real significance of any proposed Israeli withdrawal.

Bets off

But in Israel itself, the debate is real and bitter. Many see the future course of the country as being in the balance.

So can Mr Sharon hold out with the help of the same opposition parties that helped him to win this Knesset vote?

Could he seek to create a new coalition government, effectively orphaned from his own party?

Will he back down and accept a referendum? Or will new elections have to be held?

All bets are off, and Israel's often volatile political system is now heading into one of its stormiest periods within living memory.

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I think the possibility of peace in the Middle East was lost in stages, beginning in 1916 (Balfour Declaration to Zionists & contradictory promises to Hussein); 1919-1920 (Versailles & betrayal of both Arabs and Jews by the Allies); and continuing through 1925 (early conflicts and British attempts at governance in Jordan and Mesopotamia)); 1943 (Holocaust); 1945 (European indifference to "displaced persons" = Jews); 1948 (war);; 1956 (war), 1967 (war and the ill-advised Israeli occupation of the West Bank); 1973 (war); 1999 (Intifada); right up to the present.

The struggle is nearing the century point, and I see no possibility of peace until both sides are thoroughly exhausted from the struggle and come to desire resolution and peace more than victory. All the attention on the "Peace Process" is wasted until this occurs.

Frankly the direct support of a two state solution and pressures for a responsible Palestinian government offer more hope of incremental improvement than all of the hopeful breakthroughs of the past.

I also believe the point made above about the similarity of fanatic Zionists and Islamists is a valid one. As long as such groups have substantial appeal on both sides, there will be no peace. The best we can do is to contain the struggle to the participants.

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I agree without reservation with George (except I'm slightly more optimistic about the possibility of resolution in the short term. i.e. 5-10 years).

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