Can life have meaning if your dreams are unattainable?

@firefly,

Firefly I do have emotional problems. I need help. But I DON'T HAVE INSURANCE!

Quit putting quotation marks around "philosophical arguments" when you reference me using that term. Unless that is you want to sound condescending to me?

I've got a sharper mind than you may realize. I'm more than open to input and other peoples feedback, but I don't like being talked down to.

I know I don't have the answers to everything in life but neither do you!

All I know is what I've seen with my own two eyes. And everything I've seen has told me that women (the female gender as a whole) has rejected me.

That's a pretty powerful thing to stand in front of. That makes me feel like I have no worth as a human being. It makes me want death.

1 Reply

@vikorr,

"it is an expression of her right to choose someone she thinks she can love (or lust after, as the case may be)"

Women get all the choices. Where are men's choices????

You can't deny that women are viewed as more desirable than men in ALL forms of media. When female nudity is used, it's used to entice. When male nudity is used, it's used as comedy.

Mary Poppins told me in her own words that she'd never been rejected in her life.

Men don't get choices, women do. Men have to take what they can get and be happy and just shut up. That's an injustice and a hipocracy in society.

1 Reply

@MichaelJ,

Quote:

First of all, how the hell can you compare what I'm trying to say to someone who thinks pedophilia is ok????

You didn’t bother reading it did you. The point was not that you are comparable to a pedophile (which I specifically stated), but that anyone can justify anything to themselves if they so choose - which is best portrayed if you look at an extreme example – in this case by using the most unsupportable belief ever – that pedophilia is somehow good. Peds manage to justify it to themselves...so it shouldn’t be surprising if people with lesser warped belief systems manage to justify those to themselves also – but that doesn’t make their numerous entangled justifications true. This is what you are doing – justifying a position that isn’t justifiable. Everyone else sees through it but you.

vikorr wrote:

"You keep feeding your hate of women, and your hate of yourself."

MichaelJ wrote:

Bullshit. I'm not feeding myself anything. I'm observing life as it happens. I'm not influencing anyone to act a certain way. Women do the things they do and I observe it. Fact is fact. A spade is a spade, and when I see a spade, I call it a spade.

Below is a summary of quotes from you. There is a plethora of lesser quotes that back up that you do in fact, hate women, and yourself.

Quote:

-Because human beings are drawn to those who have more. That's certainly true of women. They will justify any awful thing they do to the men in their lives if they think they have a chance at trading up.
-Humans are nothing more than monkeys/meat puppets.
-I think ALL women have super powers...99.95% of them use their gifts to rob banks and hold the president hostage
-Women are deceptive liars.
-Ms. Poppins was a sociopath! Women are sociopaths!
-Women WANT to be treated like ****!
-This is another reason I think women are sociopaths. They will go to any length to justify something bad they did in their own minds so they don't feel bad about themselves.
-I wish I would've been born with a vagina so that the sun could shine out of my behind, the earth could revolve around me, and I could be infallible.
-I think people are selfish...
-I just think it's really sad how money has more sway than love or friendship or anything else when it comes to women.
-Women are the equivalent to a "devil" or a true "evil". They are a vile thing.
-Women are proof of the selfish, "evil"(for lack of a better word) nature of mankind
-I believe that women are proof positive that 1) God doesn't exist and 2) Life is a joke.

Quote:

NO WOMAN HAS TO LOVE ME. It's NOT about me. Go F yourself!

Really - then why do you hate them? If this wasn't about you, you wouldn't have any reason whatsoever to hate them.

Quote:

In an earlier post I EXPLICITLY said that if she'd simply told me that she didn't love me or loved someone else (while it would have hurt incredibly) I would've had some measure of respect for that.

Good for you. That said - this reply had little to do with the quote of mine you attached it to.

Quote:

When one person views the other as nothing more than a **** buddy, but continues to string that person along into believing that it's a real relationship, THAT'S ******* WRONG!

For the person strung along? I couldn't agree more. And while wrong - empathy would also demand that one try and understand why the person stringing the other along was doing so.

Quote:

By your rational I'm entitled to use women the same way they've used me then. I can be with someone who I know has strong feelings for me and lie to her and use her for sex. Because it's my "right to choose" if I suddenly out of nowhere decide I think I might love someone else or lust after someone else

Is that what you got out of it? You didn't get out of it 'you have no right to expect someone to choose you just because you love them'? You didn't get out of it 'everyone has a right to choose who they want to be with'?

But you attached a hell of a lot of other conditionals onto the end of it to make it into something warped...

Quote:

Your thinking on this is what's wrong with the world vikkor.

Wow..that followed your warping of 'you have a right to choose who you want to marry/have as a partner' into something rather nasty.

Quite frankly, you've built an extraordinary web of lies around yourself to support you negative view on life.

That said - it's about time you started getting angry. It shows that your world is being challenged and you don't like it...but your world needs to be challenged. It is what is keeping you depressed.

Unfortunately - these are only words. At the end of the day...you need to start doing.

1 Reply

@MichaelJ,

Quote:

Men don't get choices, women do. Men have to take what they can get and be happy and just shut up. That's an injustice and a hipocracy in society

-I get plenty of choices. My choices are also my own to make. If it were in terms of potential female partners - that is a choice that is made by each party before something happens. You get the choice too.

-I also don't have to settle for 'whatever comes my way'.

- I also don't have to 'shut up' (in fact, 'shutting up' is a turn off to women...because it shows you can't stand up for yourself, and therefore can't provide & protect.). Standing up for yourself isn't difficult. Nor is saying what you would like to do, nor saying you don't want to do something.

I don't see the injustice - I see that women & men both have different traits. I accept that is the way it is and work within that. It can be challenging, and quite fun. There is no need to apologise for being a man

As I said earlier - make the best of the circumstances you are given. You can and do choose the attitude with which you face life. You can choose to embrace all the negative attitudes in life complaining about why they render you power less - and call them 'truth', or you can choose to embrace positive, happy attitudes, while going after what you want.

It's up to you

1 Reply

I've been hurt. I've had those emotions inside of me swell and fester into bitterness and hatred. I was blind for along time. But love showed me something. It was an empathy I never knew I had. It was grattitude I never new I had. It was like a veil had been lifted. And it started by the practice of being grateful for what was around me. I know how difficult it can be allowing yourself to love who you are, but without that first step, it is harder to love anything in ones life. This might not help, but I hope at least it is food for thought.

2 Replies

@vikorr,

You mostly certainly compared my reasoning to that of someone who reasons that it's OK to have sex with children.

Did I miss that part???

My beliefs are no more warped than yours are. Reality is subjective right? "I can't change anything except my own reactions to things" right?

Yours are warped. : "For the person strung along? I couldn't agree more. And while wrong - empathy would also demand that one try and understand why the person stringing the other along was doing so."

The reason she did it is because that's what she does. She's done it all throughout her life. Because she can. There are no negative consequences for it in her own personal 'world'. Remember I don't speak to her at all and will likely miss one of very best friends weddings just to avoid her. It's like I and every other guy she's ever been with (and there have been plenty) never existed. Her whole life she's had men when she's wanted them, been able to throw them away, not have to be reminded of them, and then immediately find a new man to get another chance at chance at making herself happy and forgetting about that other person. Where's her empathy?

There's no reason that could ever justify stringing someone along. That is selfish.

I have every right to hate both women and myself! There's plenty to hate on both of those sides! Those quotes are true!!! There's plenty to hate in all of humanity.

The human race is bad thing man. It's like a virus. Society is a living thing too, as a whole. It's it's own entity. If you look at the earth from a plane, cities and developments look like tumors on the earth (which is also a living thing). Humanity needs to get their **** together in a big way. I'm not the only discontented, angry person in the world. The way people treat each other isn't right. Humanity is one, we are all part of the same thing. Humanity scares and saddens me in the direction it's going.

"Really - then why do you hate them? If this wasn't about you, you wouldn't have any reason whatsoever to hate them."

Really? So I can't look at how women treat other men, including friends and feel angry about that?

"'everyone has a right to choose who they want to be with'" I repeat, WHERE IS MY CHOICE?

"But you attached a hell of a lot of other conditionals onto the end of it to make it into something warped..."

She used me for sex, comfort, and revenge... If that's what choosing who you want to be with entails, why can't I act the same exact way?

That's a valid point!

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@vikorr,

"You get the choice too."

How the **** do I get a choice? There are literally probably millions of women in the world that I would be attracted to. Out of those millions maybe oh, a few dozen at best could possibly also be attracted me. And god knows how the hell I could ever find one of those out of all the people on the earth!

Women have it the other way around. Those millions of possible men are all open doors. Women have a key that lets them into any door on planet earth and it's called a vagina. Sorry, but it's true. Then out of all these open doors, they get the LUXURY of choosing the absolute best possible out of many great choices. Truth isn't always PC or pleasant for that matter but that doesn't make it any less true.

" I also don't have to 'shut up' (in fact, 'shutting up' is a turn off to women...because it shows you can't stand up for yourself, and therefore can't provide & protect.). Standing up for yourself isn't difficult. Nor is saying what you would like to do, nor saying you don't want to do something."

I didn't mean shutting up to women, I meant men have to shut up in the face of society. This is also due to that boys being raised to be stoic and able to handle anything thing. Men can't wine about being unfulfilled in life because that's not acceptable. Look at how strongly you fight that my views are "warped".

"There is no need to apologise for being a man"

If you're a man and you honestly think you have as many chances for happiness in life as women, you're lying to yourself. Women make men apologize for being a man every day of their lives. They do this by making sure they have control, the upper hand. Women oppress men.

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@Procrustes,

Thank you.

I know I don't like myself. I know I need to accept myself. I used to, a long time ago. It's hard to forget things that happened along the way that contributed to this view.

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@Procrustes,

Procrustes wrote:

I've been hurt. I've had those emotions inside of me swell and fester into bitterness and hatred. I was blind for along time. But love showed me something. It was an empathy I never knew I had. It was grattitude I never new I had. It was like a veil had been lifted. And it started by the practice of being grateful for what was around me. I know how difficult it can be allowing yourself to love who you are, but without that first step, it is harder to love anything in ones life. This might not help, but I hope at least it is food for thought.

This is such a great post and so true! We all have had those emotions and most of us emerged from it as better people.
--------

Honestly, my feeling is that MichaelJ is wallowing in self pity - something I would never support nor accept. There are people out there with real problems and they take it with more dignity than someone who has merely lost his girlfriend to another. Grow up, assess your damages and move on, MichaelJ! I am sorry to say but you are pathetic!

1 Reply

@CalamityJane,

Try spending the better part of a decade alone against your will after your fiance cheats on you while someone you love is dying! Then tell me how your outlook on life is!

And you have no right to say this isn't a "real" problem. The endings of relationships feel likes deaths, it's a widely used analogy. The accompanying feelings are pretty much as intense. This was the first one for me in six years. It took a big step just to try it in the first place. I'm sorry if her running off with someone else isn't something I can just brush off. I've lost almost I everyone I've ever loved in my life.

Intense feelings of loneliness are "real" problems indeed and can exacerbate other "real" problems. For instance, my inability to sleep more than 5 hours a night for the past god knows how many years. That lost sleep affects everything I do!

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@MichaelJ,

Get out of it Mike she does n´t deserve you nor do you deserve to keep on it...the world is full of interesting people and you are just losing the opportunity to get to know someone who TRULY appreciates you for who you are ! What Calamity said she said out of concern for you which is more then you seam to have for yourself...respect yourself is the motto you are missing...you are here you are alive and wasting time thinking of a rotten past...try to get to the point of on old age coming to remember something good that you really once had and came to lose but that was real in the first place...if she run off let her go out of your head...simple ! Do it !

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@MichaelJ,

You don't seem to realize that other people have problems too - some far more severe than having malfunctioning relationship issues and for your info, I have lost a family member at a much younger age than you, moved to the United States by myself and know how it feels to be completely alone in a different country, but this isn't a contest who has experienced more pain here.

The most important thing is, how you pick up the pieces and go on with your life and make it worthwhile. Don't think for a minute that you will
ever enter another relationship with your current mindset. No woman
in her right mind would take on a whiner. You seem to be incapable to
overcome life's adversities for yourself, how on earth are you going to be
able to deal with another person?

Please sit back and objectively analyze if you would date yourself, given
the current mindset you're in. Unless you snap out of it and deal with
your situation like any normal adult would do, don't expect your situation to get better or even change.

1 Reply

@MichaelJ,

Quote:

My beliefs are no more warped than yours are. Reality is subjective right?

I don't subscribe to passive philosophy - but active ones.

Let’s use warped to mean ‘bad for yourself, and bad for others’. With this definition, yours are very warped. They certainly lack any balance, and any positivity.

Quote:

"I can't change anything except my own reactions to things" right?

Wrong. You can change your beliefs. You can change your values. You can change whether you choose to be positive or negative (this is actually mostly a habit). You can stop lying to yourself. You can become aware of yourself. You can remold so many things in the mind, it is incredible.

Quote:

There's no reason that could ever justify stringing someone along. That is selfish.

True that – this comes down to the ‘self deceptions’ that people take part in. She does, you do it. Yet she believes it valid...and you believe it valid.

Quote:

I have every right to hate both women and myself! There's plenty to hate on both of those sides! Those quotes are true!!! There's plenty to hate in all of humanity.

Just the previous post that I replied to – you objected to me saying that you hate women, and stated that you don’t hate women. Numerous posts ago, you wrote a whole paragraph on how much you so, so, loved women, how wonderful they are, and how intoxicating they are. I've little doubt a part of you believed those writings when you wrote them.

Quote:

"'everyone has a right to choose who they want to be with'" I repeat, WHERE IS MY CHOICE?

What – you can’t say No? If a girl comes up to you – you don’t have a choice in entering into a relationship with her? That’s the same choice they have, but you hate them for it because it is mostly men that do the approaching, and those that do choose to approach men, don’t approach you.

Up until you decide to actually change these things :
- You’ve made the choice of not being attractive to women by making the choice to hate them, and hating yourself. Why should anyone choose to be with someone who hates them or hates themselves?
- You’ve also made the choice not to develop more interesting traits. You can start this at any time.
- It appears you also hide yourself from women (so that rules out anyone wanting to approach you, and you are envious of other men because the women don’t approach you, and hate the women for that combined fact)
- It appears you also don't approach women much - that's your choice. That attitude that you approach them with is also within your control & choice. The skills you approach them with are also within your control & choice to develop.

You get a plethora of choices in your life. Just as every single person alive does. You just lie to yourself and ‘rule yourself out’ of a lot of choices that you could make...then claim you don’t get any choice. It’s nonsense.

Quote:

Out of those millions maybe oh, a few dozen at best could possibly also be attracted me.

Possibly true in your current state...Very far from true if you learn things women love (eg. dancing - that gives you a plethora of women to meet, because so few men learn dancing, and women love it), and just a plain lie if you choose to fix your attitudes up

Quote:

If you're a man and you honestly think you have as many chances for happiness in life as women, you're lying to yourself.

Suit yourself.

Let’s go by your actual meaning (which is ‘find a partner they love’, rather than ‘having as many chances at happiness...which is a different matter). It’s just amazing how the very vast majority of men actually manage to find women that they like as partners (of course, as the relationship goes long term...more of both the men and women start wondering if they made the right choice, but that’s another story). Even the fat men, the ugly men, the handicapped men...so many of them seem to find partners the genuinely love when they marry them / move in with them.

Oddly enough – when you add the total up – heterosexual women can’t have more boyfriends than men can have girlfriends ...it’s mathematically impossible.(though within the whole, there are males with better chances than other males, just as there are females with better chances than other females)

As for happiness itself - as I said much earlier. You make your own happiness. Women just enhance it. So for the literal meaning of your quote above - you are plain deceiving yourself. We have as many choices and chances at happiness as they do.

Edit : the above paragraph - women enhance it if you choose to have women in your life that do enhance it. Some men choose to have women in their lives that diminish their happiness.

2 Replies

@CalamityJane,

I've never said other people don't have problems too. I've simply talked about my own. I'v never said mine are worse than others problems. All I've done is explain the ways that mine have debilitated me. I can't find satisfaction in anything in life because of them! I'd say that constitutes a 'real' problem!

I honestly think if I was the same person I am now but female instead of male, it wouldn't matter in the least bit what my current mindset was. Someone would date me anyway!

1 Reply

@MichaelJ,

Try the Sargent type of lady, a big Martha might suit your needs...I guessing that may well be your "market" sweet spot...

1 Reply

@vikorr,

"Just the previous post that I replied to – you objected to me saying that you hate women, and stated that you don’t hate women. Numerous posts ago, you wrote a whole paragraph on how much you so, so, loved women, how wonderful they are, and how intoxicating they are. I've little doubt a part of you believed those writings when you wrote them."

I love AND hate women. It's both. I told you this, but it really is psychological torture to be attracted to something that 1) doesn't want you and 2) that you also hate. I can't just decide one day to quit being biologically attracted to women. I also do have female friends and I love them just as much as any male friends I've ever had. It's both love and hate.

One thing I hate about women is nagging. I've even asked people I've dated why the do it and gotten the response "I don't know" even as they admit that they in fact DO nag. Nagging is like Chinese water torture, it will drive you to brink of madness.

I don't have choice in that I would have a hard time turning down most any women interested in me. I've slept someone I wasn't attracted to before. But that was only because she practically raped me. It's almost impossible for men to turn down women because men have this inherited imprint that's always telling them "for all you know this could be the last time you ever sleep with a woman before you die!" You see, men take what they can get.

Women on the other hand have contingency plans and never ending offers. There's no challenge for women in finding interested men. Because of that, being with a man or sex with a man or whatever it may be becomes less of "prize" (really not the word I want to use but I can't think of a better one to say what I'm meaning) to women. It's just too easy for them.

I don't know why on earth I would possibly WANT to be miserable.

Answer me this vikkor, if "A woman choosing not to love you is not selfish - it is an expression of her right to choose someone she thinks she can love (or lust after, as the case may be)"

How then could I ever be with someone and not constantly be (not necessarily worried but at least aware) that they could dissapear at any moment for any reason under the sun? Especially knowing that the only two I ever loved both did just that! It ruins anything enjoyable about having relationships and just makes loving someone more painful than it is pleasurable.

I know happiness as larger term isn't dependent on women, but for me personally it's a big enough factor that it makes other things not matter. I know there are handicapped people and other people with more severe medical problems, but on the other hand I don't have (not that I don't have any medical problems) severe medical issues. There should be no reason that I couldn't have hopes in regard to being a father and husband. That I was rejected in such disheartening and dehumanizing ways, coupled with being rejected by (what feels like) the entire female gender as a whole through out the course many years makes me feel less than human. That is a debilitating feeling.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Great...

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@vikorr,

"heterosexual women can’t have more boyfriends than men can have girlfriends ...it’s mathematically impossible."

How so?

1 Reply

@MichaelJ,

If you want to quote - highlight the text you are trying to quote, and click on the 'quote' box above the box you write in.

Quote:

I love AND hate women. It's both. I told you this, but it really is psychological torture to be attracted to something that 1) doesn't want you and 2) that you also hate.

Well, I would have a different take on it. I think you lust after women AND hate women.

People talk of 'pure love' - which doesn't co-exist with hate. Any love that exists at the same time as hate, becomes tainted by the hate. Lust on the other hand, exists quite well with hate. In terms of 'love' - have a look at how confused your writing is when it comes to women. Replace that word with lust, and the writing makes sense...and yet, what you want is lust & love...but your attitudes greatly impede the 'love' part.

Quote:

I don't have choice in that I would have a hard time turning down most any women interested in me.

That’s not genetic – that’s the way you’ve trained your own mind. That’s your deep unresolved feelings. You do have a choice to change & resolve those…which then gives you the choice to say no. You only ‘don’t have the choice to say no’ so long as you passively sit there accepting that you are this way. That attitude – is your choice.

Quote:

Women on the other hand have contingency plans and never ending offers. There's no challenge for women in finding interested men. Because of that, being with a man or sex with a man or whatever it may be becomes less of "prize" (really not the word I want to use but I can't think of a better one to say what I'm meaning) to women. It's just too easy for them.

I wonder what type of women you actually listen to…just the exceptionally pretty ones?

There are enough women out there who find it hard to find a man (though not as many as men who find it hard to find a woman).

It appears that your main complaint is that 'you feel you can't compete with other men' and you blame women for that. Do you see how absurd that is? To blame women for your lack of competitiveness with other males?

Quote:

You see, men take what they can get

No – you take what you can get. Plenty of men are choosy. Plenty of men aren’t (unless you pinned them down – then you’d find they still have standards…just not high ones)

Quote:

I don't know why on earth I would possibly WANT to be miserable.

That's the real question, isn't it. Why do you persist in beliefs and attitudes you to lead to failure (even while you crave success) and lead to you being miserable? If you truly wanted success, then you'd have it (because you would have been developing skills, and attitudes, and beliefs to drive you towards sucess)...so something else is holding you back, and driving you towards misery...what?

As guesses (which may not be right) - Is it easier to be miserable than to face up to truths…or to actually DO something about your situation? Or is there some other reason? Some other fear? (What are you most terrified of, when it comes to women...and is it easier to make up stories to justify inaction than it is to face that fear? If so...is there ways to lessen the fear? Is there ways to move you towards a place where the fear isn't so great?)

Quote:

How then could I ever be with someone and not constantly be (not necessarily worried but at least aware) that they could dissapear at any moment for any reason under the sun?

Because the right one will actually love you?

You do realise that countless men have left women, and countless women have left men…and that it’s not a science? There’s a lot of hit n miss until you find the right person.

Quote:

but for me personally it's a big enough factor that it makes other things not matter

That’s a matter of focus – it’s purely that you focus on your need to be in a relationship so much that you don’t even look at the other things. For example - you can choose to take time to focus on other things, to say ‘alright, this #XX hour of every day, I will focus entirely on #### and even if I fail sometimes during this time, I will continue to train myself to focus on doing #### during this time each day’.

2 Replies

@MichaelJ,

Quote:

"heterosexual women can’t have more boyfriends than men can have girlfriends ...it’s mathematically impossible."

If men are A & Women are B, and a relationship is C, then A + B = C.

A by itself does not = C. B by itself does not = C. In a total system, it's impossible for the sum of all 'A''s to have more relationships than the sum of all 'B''s.

If the total of 'C''s for all 'A's is D, then the total of 'C's for all 'B's is also D.

In another way - for a female to have a bofriend, a male must have her as a girlfriend. it's impossible for a girl to have a boyfriend where a male doesn't have her as a girlfriend (unless of course she is delusional or mistaken about the situation). So as many guys as she's had as a boyfriend...that many guys have had her as a girlfriend.

An individual girl may have more boyfriends than you have had girlfriends...but the total relationships of both male & female are, in total, equal.

1 Reply

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