Name the most dangerous woman in the United States

Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 06:26 pm
In my opinion, the most dangerous woman was Ayn Rand, or her real name Alissa Rosenbaum. I believe that Ayn Rand's thinking had a disastrously corruptive effect on Americans. Because of Rand's works, most importantly The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged, our society would have been far, far different had it not been for the publication of those two books.

We can thank Ayn Rand for the Tea Party and other government haters, such as Barry Goldwater, who influenced Ronald Reagan. Ayn Rand's thinking permeates many of our leaders of today. Alan Greenspan was an advocate of Rand and it demonstrated her impact on his disastrous failing as head of the Federal Reserve.

In the early 1950s, Greenspan began an association with famed novelist and philosopher Ayn Rand. Greenspan was introduced to Rand by his first wife, Joan Mitchell. Rand nicknamed Greenspan "the undertaker" because of his penchant for dark clothing and reserved demeanor. Although Greenspan was initially a logical positivist, he was converted to Rand's philosophy of Objectivism by her associate Nathaniel Branden. He became one of the members of Rand's inner circle, the Ayn Rand Collective, who read Atlas Shrugged while it was being written. During the 1950s and 1960s Greenspan was a proponent of Objectivism, writing articles for Objectivist newsletters and contributing several essays for Rand's 1966 book Capitalism: the Unknown Ideal including an essay supporting the gold standard. Rand stood beside him at his 1974 swearing-in as Chair of the Council of Economic Advisers. Greenspan and Rand remained friends until her death in 1982.

Although Greenspan was once recognized as a proponent of laissez-faire capitalism, some Objectivists find his support for a gold standard somewhat incongruous or dubious, given the Federal Reserve's role in America's fiat money system and endogenous inflation. He has come under criticism from Harry Binswanger, who believes his actions while at work for the Federal Reserve and his publicly expressed opinions on other issues show abandonment of Objectivist and free market principles. However, when questioned in relation to this, he has said that in a democratic society individuals have to make compromises with each other over conflicting ideas of how money should be handled. He said he himself had to make such compromises, because he believes that "we did extremely well" without a central bank and with a gold standard. In a congressional hearing on October 23, 2008 Greenspan admitted that his free-market ideology shunning certain regulations was flawed. However, when asked about free markets and Rand's ideas in an interview on April 4, 2010, Greenspan clarified his stance on laissez faire capitalism and asserted that in a democratic society there could be no better alternative. He stated that the errors that were made stemmed not from the principle, but the application of competitive markets in "assuming what the nature of risks would be."

Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 06:31 pm
It's really strange that you brought this up, I just had this discussion with a coworker 2 days ago.
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Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 06:51 pm
It would be hard to come up with a viable alternative.
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Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 07:02 pm
If you can stand it, this clip is worth watching. She is far, far, creepier in reality, than in print.

Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 07:34 pm
LionTamerX wrote:

If you can stand it, this clip is worth watching. She is far, far, creepier in reality, than in print.

I don't get what you find "creepy" about her. Are you saying her appearance is "creepy" or her philosophy? If you are saying her appearance then what does that have to do with her philosophy? If you are saying her philosophy, what is creepy about her philosophy? If you are saying both then what is it that makes her both creepy in appearance and in philosophy.

Although I don't agree 100% with her philosophy, I do however agree that people should not enslave themselves to other people. Christian philosophy does not work and only drives the person into unhappiness through self loathing and impossible goals.
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Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 07:37 pm
There are atheists who refute Ayn also.
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Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 07:59 pm
The question is why did Ayn Rand become so popular in the USA.
I think the "Randian" cosmovision was there, deeply rooted in American society, before she arrived.
In other words, without Rand, there would still have been Tea Party and little oversight of the bankers' misdeed. Perhaps they'd be differently worded, but the same stuff in a nutshell.
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 08:04 pm
Much like the Rush Limbaugh phenomenon. He merely gave voice to what many already wanted to hear.
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Lustig Andrei
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 08:06 pm
I dunno. I, too, was (and am) totally opposed to Rand's philosophy and economic bullshit theories. But there are at least two things in your dissertation that I totally disgree with, BBB.

One, I think that as a novelist she was a very fine writer, completely apart from whatever message she was trying to deliver. Both of the books that you cite -- The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged -- have stood the test of time and are worth a second reading today.

And, two, I think it a wild exaggeration to say that either Rand or the contents of her works had that much influence on the general course of history. To say that if it had not been for the contents of two novels "our society would have been far, far different" is hyperbole of the highest order. To maintain that her friendship with Alan Greenspan somehow influenced the way Greespan ran the Fed is ludicrous. They were friends because they both thought alike, not because one was sole mentor to the other.

And since when have Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan become "government haters"? In what sense of that phrase? I consistently voted against both of them but not because I thought they were "government haters." Quite the opposite. Which has nothing to do with Ayn Rand anyway.

I'm sure you didn't write that screed, BBB. I wonder what left-wing blog it came out of.
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 08:12 pm
Nancy Pelosi.
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Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 09:10 pm
She does appear to lack a certain empathy, or any feelings of compassion, toward her fellow human beings! Wink

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Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 09:19 pm
Oprah. . .

. . .

What? She has her own telivision network!
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Lustig Andrei
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 03:03 pm
Actually, I always thought that ehBeth was. . . Oh, wait. She's in Canada, not the USA.
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 04:16 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Reply Sat 30 Jul, 2011 09:37 am
You have to read more than Ayn Rand's novels to understand how dangerous she was. I read many of her articles, newsletters and essays, and decided she was a fool.

Her are some of her quotes:

A building has integrity just like a man. And just as seldom.

A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others.

A desire presupposes the possibility of action to achieve it; action presupposes a goal which is worth achieving.

Achievement of your happiness is the only moral purpose of your life, and that happiness, not pain or mindless self-indulgence, is the proof of your moral integrity, since it is the proof and the result of your loyalty to the achievement of your values.

Achieving life is not the equivalent of avoiding death.

Ask yourself whether the dream of heaven and greatness should be waiting for us in our graves - or whether it should be ours here and now and on this earth.

Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.

Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong.

Do not ever say that the desire to "do good" by force is a good motive. Neither power-lust nor stupidity are good motives.

Every aspect of Western culture needs a new code of ethics - a rational ethics - as a precondition of rebirth.

Every man builds his world in his own image. He has the power to choose, but no power to escape the necessity of choice.

Evil requires the sanction of the victim.

Force and mind are opposites; morality ends where a gun begins.
Ayn Rand

From the smallest necessity to the highest religious abstraction, from the wheel to the skyscraper, everything we are and everything we have comes from one attribute of man - the function of his reasoning mind.

God... a being whose only definition is that he is beyond man's power to conceive.

Government "help" to business is just as disastrous as government persecution... the only way a government can be of service to national prosperity is by keeping its hands off.

Happiness is that state of consciousness which proceeds from the achievement of one's values.

I don't build in order to have clients. I have clients in order to build.

I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.

If any civilization is to survive, it is the morality of altruism that men have to reject.

Individual rights are not subject to a public vote; a majority has no right to vote away the rights of a minority; the political function of rights is precisely to protect minorities from oppression by majorities (and the smallest minority on earth is the individual).

Individual rights are the means of subordinating society to moral law.

It only stands to reason that where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting the sacrificial offerings. Where there's service, there is someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master.

Just as man can't exist without his body, so no rights can exist without the right to translate one's rights into reality, to think, to work and keep the results, which means: the right of property.

Love is the expression of one's values, the greatest reward you can earn for the moral qualities you have achieved in your character and person, the emotional price paid by one man for the joy he receives from the virtues of another.

Man's unique reward, however, is that while animals survive by adjusting themselves to their background, man survives by adjusting his background to himself.

Money demands that you sell, not your weakness to men's stupidity, but your talent to their reason.

Money is only a tool. It will take you wherever you wish, but it will not replace you as the driver.

Money is the barometer of a society's virtue.

Only the man who does not need it, is fit to inherit wealth, the man who would make his fortune no matter where he started.

People create their own questions because they are afraid to look straight. All you have to do is look straight and see the road, and when you see it, don't sit looking at it - walk.

Potentially, a government is the most dangerous threat to man's rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims.

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone.

Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter.

So you think that money is the root of all evil. Have you ever asked what is the root of all money?

The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see.

The ladder of success is best climbed by stepping on the rungs of opportunity.

The man who lets a leader prescribe his course is a wreck being towed to the scrap heap.

The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.

The purpose of morality is to teach you, not to suffer and die, but to enjoy yourself and live.

The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

The truth is not for all men, but only for those who seek it.

The worst guilt is to accept an unearned guilt.

There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

There can be no such thing, in law or in morality, as actions to an individual, but permitted to a mob.

There is a level of cowardice lower than that of the conformist: the fashionable non-conformist.

Throughout the centuries there were men who took first steps, down new roads, armed with nothing but their own vision.

To achieve, you need thought. You have to know what you are doing and that's real power.

To say "I love you" one must first be able to say the "I."

Upper classes are a nation's past; the middle class is its future.

We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force.

Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think.

When I die, I hope to go to Heaven, whatever the Hell that is. (BBB's favorite Rand quote.)

When man learns to understand and control his own behavior as well as he is learning to understand and control the behavior of crop plants and domestic animals, he may be justified in believing that he has become civilized.
Reply Sat 30 Jul, 2011 10:21 am
The Most Dangerous Woman
Utah Phillips

"I was traveling through Illinois, when I was invited to stop and sing at a memorial, there in a little town called Mount Olive. Now, who of note in American history is buried in the cemetery in Mount Olive. I'll give you a hint, she was a woman, it is a Union Miner's Cemetery. Have it yet? Mary Harris, Mary Harris Jones, Mother Jones.

It is hard for the mind to encompass the life that embraced the Presidency between Andrew Jackson and Herbert Hoover. Why, when Mother Jones was a little girl, there were people still alive that remembered the Revolutionary War. She died on the eve of the New Deal. Her dress shop burned down in the great Chicago fire, and she had heard Abe Lincoln, speak in person. Mostly though Mother Jones was the miner's friend.

Down in Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia, men were organizing the underground workers, the miners. Mother Jones had already organized their wives and led them over the snow covered game trails down into the holler, where armed with mops and brooms they drove the scabs out of the coal pits. Now, Mother Jones wasn't an organizer, she was an agitator. Which meant often enough she was hated by the organizers as she was by the bosses.

One time Mother Jones was out in Colorado at the Great Ludlow Strike. Now that was the strike to enforce the eight hour day, which the state of Colorado had made into law. But they couldn't enforce it because Rockefeller owned the militia. Now the Governor promised not to send the militia into the coal fields, but he lied, and he did.

Mother Jones was in the Union Hall down there in Ludlow when word came that the militia had entered into the coal fields. Well, she leapt up and she screamed, "Let's go get the Son's of Bitches." And she stormed out. She didn't look to see if anybody was following her. Nobody, was following her. She just flounced up the road alone, and confronted the militia.

And that's the year that President Theodore Roosevelt called Mother Jones, "The Most Dangerous Woman in America." And she was 83 years old, that's some kind of dangerous woman."
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Reply Sat 30 Jul, 2011 11:09 am
Could Eve have been the most dangerous women because she did what the snake told her to do?

Reply Sat 30 Jul, 2011 11:30 am
Well, strictly speaking she wasn't American..
Reply Sat 30 Jul, 2011 11:53 am
You are right, but she wasn't real anyway.

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