Can life have meaning if your dreams are unattainable?

His previous therapist told him he was hopeless because he likely spent two years in therapy trying to convince her he was hopeless. She finally threw up her hands in frustration and said, "You're right". If he wasn't willing to work on himself in therapy, but instead spent his time engaging in "philosophical arguments", which is what he said he did, then the therapy was a waste of time. You'll notice, he veers into "philosophical arguments" in this thread too, for the same reason, he dodges looking at himself and seeing possibilities for change.

I don't think MichaelJ is hopeless at all, but he certainly seems attached to seeing himself as a helpless victim, and a social misfit, even if it leaves him seething with resentment and envy. It's too anxiety provoking for him to take responsibility for his life and his actions and his reactions. It's too anxiety provoking for him to contemplate changing and growing. He externalizes blame all over the place. He rationalizes, denies, and over-intellectualizes. And the net result is that he stays mired in his own emotional baggage and things never do get better for him. Then he takes that as confirmation that his situation is hopeless. That's how he creates a self fulfilling prophecy. Sure, he can stymie a therapist if he wants to. He's got enough defenses to fend off an army of therapists. The question is, how does it benefit him to do that? Why would it be so anxiety provoking for him to stop seeing himself as a victim and stop seeing his life as hopeless? He has to want a therapist to help him, he has to want to understand how he contributes to making his life the way it is, he has to want to change and grow.

He doesn't just have problems with women, he has personality problems that will affect all of his relationships and social interactions. He doesn't think he can compete or keep up with other people period. It's not really a gender issue, it's a self esteem issue, and I don't think it has anything to do with "men and women". I think his self esteem is low because he knows he's hampered by emotional and personality problems, but, rather than go into therapy and really work on trying to improve those problems, he's still engaging in the "philosophical arguments", he's using booze "to numb the pain", he's still being the victim, and nothing changes for him. When he really feels miserable enough, maybe he'll finally decide to get some help--and actually want it.

You've given him some excellent advice in post after post. Unfortunately, I think it goes in one ear and out the other. He wanted to go back to talking about why the wife of his disabled friend would want to cheat on her husband--a topic totally unrelated to his own problems, or how he could change his own life with some of the suggestions you offered to him. Or he comes up with suppose he improved his life, developed new interests, and still wasn't attractive to women--he just spins his wheels, with nonsense like that, he's not seriously interested in trying to change himself in any way.

What MichaelJ doesn't understand is that it's much more anxiety provoking to feel like a victim, and act like a victim, than to actually be responsible for yourself and in control of yourself. A victim is at everyone's mercy, and he doesn't like feeling like that, but he can't envision being any other way. He just isn't realizing the solution is for him to take the responsibility to turn himself into a more competent person, someone who can hold his own in a relationship, someone who has something to bring to a relationship, someone whose life isn't dominated by anxiety and need. If he could do that, it would make him more attractive to women, but it's something he needs to do for himself.

So, if he believes he "sucks", maybe he does. And he should work on changing that too. I'm not sure whether that was the message he got from his previous therapist. I think he just wore her down. And, judging by his posts in this thread, it's not hard to understand why. He doesn't want to budge an inch in terms of how he chooses to look at things, and he's convinced himself he's right.

What I was getting at, is that I think you were becoming frustrated, which is quite understandable.

Not exactly - this is just another way of experiencing & understanding the world, that doesn't involve the use of the 'depths of your soul' (so to speak). It avoids using ones feelings by looking for the logic. It can be a comfortable place, where you believe you can deal with your issues...unfortunately, until your feelings are engaged, you never really sort your issues out, because feelings drive us much more strongly than logic, especially in relationships.

Yes....this is very automated behaviour.

How do you get past automated behaviour?

The only answer that I am aware of, is raising awareness itself.

As I said - I think he's actually quite intelligent. I think it doesn't just 'go in one ear & out the other' . I think he's rather fearful of facing the task of rebuilding himself - and not just of the task, but of what he'll find. It takes a willingness to admit that he he has deep flaws, and that he does have to just start, even if he doesn't know where. And it takes a willingness to understand that it just won't fall in lap, and he won't understand things at first, or even for a while, and openning his feelings up again will be difficult and daunting.

Yes. This is the same for all of us - even lots of 'whole/normal' people would be surprised by how full of fear their life is, and how much they avoid the things they fear.

It's related to his own problems - because of the automated processes in his mind. He looks for external examples to justify the internal beliefs.

Possibly. My guess is that he came here to see if someone could offer him a philosophical argument around why the way he thought was not working.

He knows there's a problem but he's an intellectual (in many ways), and feels he needs to intellectual what he can only conclude are his faults, and the faults of women combining to deny him a loving & rewarding relationship...or something very similar to that (that doesn't sound quite right).


At it's heart, it's his deep emotions that he needs to understand - his loves, his fears, his needs, his self respect, his self esteem, his power, his vulnerabilities...why they exist, how they exist, and how to ease the negative ones, and empower the positive ones.

So by your rationale It's ok then if I do something just because I'm trying to bring happiness into my own life? I shouldn't worry about if it hurts others?

So if what makes me happy is to **** my pants and smear it on people's food, that would be ok?

What if what made me happy was to cut power lines, or steal from old people, or hack government databases, or kill people, or molest little kids?

Anyone could say they were doing something because it made them happy. That doesn't make it right.

"He knows there's a problem but he's an intellectual (in many ways)"

I'm intelligent enough to ask questions instead of accepting everything as it's presented to me. I'm intelligent enough to take things apart to look for truth. I'm intelligent enough to want truth. I'm intelligent enough to admit I'm flawed, I know I am.

Maybe I don't always have the words to explain the things I want to say sometimes, but that doesn't mean I don't have complex ideas, or a complex understanding of things.

I see that you didn't read my post correctly. What I said was "There are consequences for everything we do". You could do everything you said - but there are consequences.

You obviously also haven't comprehended the difference between unintentionally hurting someone, and unavoidably hurting someone. When two people's lives are entwined, and they separate - even if it's for both their own goods...one person is unavoidably hurt more than the other (usually the one that wants to separate less is the most hurt).

Life isn't about extremes, as you are trying to make it. It is about balance.

In a healthy relationship, you both look after your own happiness AND you both look after each others happiness.

If one person is no longer looking after your happiness, there is only you left to look after your happiness. Respect for the value of yourself and your happiness means you look to meet your needs, while also being considerate of the other persons needs & happiness. Sometimes...looking after your happiness & being considerate of not hurting the other person (who is not being considerate of you) is incompatible in terms of meeting the needs for your happiness. A better option for this sort of relationship is to split up, but for many reasons, many people choose not to do it (eg. Kids, lack of finances, poor self esteem, fear of loneliness, fear of making a mistake, fear of not finding better etc)

It's not a perfect world. As I said - people make the best decisions they can, and there are consequences for those decisions.

That's what the word 'intellectual' implies - that you have complex ideas etc

"one person is unavoidably hurt more than the other (usually the one that wants to separate less is the most hurt)."

If I'm an intellectual, how can I not dissect the fact that the person who is hurt the least is the winner?

It goes back to game playing, keeping score. It makes me feel less human because that matters so much in society. It makes me feel less human and dissapointed in myself that I'm so angry I lost, and it makes me feel less human to know it was so important to her to win.

She told me in her own words having control in relationships was a top priority. That winning was important.


So she gets to go off into the sunset and live her forever perfect life, confident in knowing that she was never rejected, always had the 'control' in all her relationships, and always was and forever will be the winner.

How am I supposed to hold back a natural thought like that?

I confess to not following this entire thread, but if that's a fair re-reading of the termination of the relationship I'd say you're well shot of her and you should be celebrating every day.

R u complaining about an absence of legislation
prohibiting women from using us, Mike ??





David

Is being an intellectual somehow an insult?

And why must there be a winner? And why would winning have any meaning? Are you only happy in life if, when a race is held between you & one other, that you win every single time? That's a plainly ridiculous concept (both viewing it as a race/game to be won, and that out of that concept- you must always 'win')

Understand that you choose to engage in gameplaying when you think of relationships this way.

By the way - do you get what I mean about 'your own world' beging able to stand up to others 'worlds'...and if yours is strong enough, you show you can provide & protect? Currently, you are allowing others worlds (ie others way of thinking) to completely dominate areas of your world (your way of thinking in areas - like above). Strength would be "I decide how I want to view my relationships, what I get from them, whether or not I indulge in game play"...and when you come up against different 'worlds' you still hold yours strong in your mind.

...funnily enough - you do this...but only for the part of your world that is warped, sick world that leaves you mired in depression, angry at women, and angry at yourself. Why would you choose to keep the aspects of your world that result in this alive? Why would you not rather choose to start dismantling such aspects of your world, and replacing them with healthy views & beliefs?

Others can contribute to your view of yourself...only you can choose how you view yourself - this 'something else makes me' crap really has to stop. Everything you will ever feel in life, is contributed to by surounding environment & people, and directly decided by your own brain. 5 people could experience the same event, and all have different emotional reactions to it...so the emotional reaction is not set in stone, but decided in your head. It's contributed to by your fears, your beliefs, your self esteem, the value you place on things, your sense of humour, your ability to achieve & make a difference in your life & surrounds, etc.

Did you know that the vast majority of self made millionaires (the ones that did it the old fashioned way in business, rather than dot.com kings) failed over & over before they succeeded? They didn't choose to view failure as failure, but as a stepping stone where they learnt valuable lessons, while always keeping their eye on the goal.

You 'lost' because you choose to view it that way (it's a seriously silly way of looking at breakups by the way - it achieves absolutely nothing, excepte to mire yourself in pitiful thoughts. Why would you choose to subject yourself to that?), and because you aren't using it as a stepping stone to other relationships.

Why does that matter at all? It's completely irrelevant to you, unless you choose to make it relevant...and then it still has no relevance, except as a source you can develop anger from...which anger is just pointless.

If you want to still be angry - you should be angry at yourself for the self pity you indulge in, and use that anger to better yourself.

So again...the only question of any relevance is : when are you going to stop indulging in victimhood, and start doing something to make yourself who you want to be (and thereby start moving your life towards what you want)?

Every iota of philosophy & intellectualisation is pointless without accompanying action. So, when are you going to start doin?

It's not a natural thought - that would have to be genetic.

Thought patterns, and 'ways of thinking' (ie pessimistic, optimistic, cynical, paranoid, loving, warm etc) are largely habitual.

You develop new ways of thinking in the same way as creating new habits...but in a more complex environments, because you have multiple habits influencing your way of thinking, including your beliefs, your values / morals, your optimism etc

So...when are you going to start doing something/anything to improve yourself, and your life?

MichaelJ, flaws have to do with imperfections, and we all have imperfections. What you're not admitting is that you have emotional and personality problems that interfere with your life and that you have to get some help with. And, to a great extent, you're trying to mask those problems, and your feelings, by hiding behind your "philosophical arguments"--you even did that with your therapists. Engaging in "philosophical arguments" with a therapist is counter-productive, it's like going to a dermatologist because you have a bad rash on your back and then refusing to take off your shirt so the doctor can look at the rash--you won't get effective treatment that way.

The real problem isn't whether Ms. Poppins treated you badly, it's more that you hadn't dated anyone for 6 years before your involvement with her. And, before that, you were in one long term relationship for about 6 years, so you didn't date anyone else during that time either. So, one issue is why you didn't date anyone during the 6 years before Ms. Poppins. What held you back from dating and meeting women? A second issue is that you have very little dating experience, and very little experience evaluating how you feel in these relationships, or in determining what qualities you look for in another person and what qualities you'd rather avoid. And, because of your lack of dating experience, you seem not to understand that most of these relationships do not last indefinitely, eventually they will end, and you have to learn how to better cope with that part of it. The point is simply to enjoy the relationship as it's happening, for as long as the good parts last, and, when it's over, to be able to move on to new relationships until you do eventually find one that may be truly lasting. That's a process we all go through.

Lack of experience doing something can be compensated for by simply putting yourself in the position where you gain the experience. You need to learn how to meet more women, to learn how to comfortably talk with women you meet, possibly how to learn to flirt with women you find appealing, and you have to be open to meeting a wide range of women, including those closer to your own age--what you are trying to gain is experience. And there are lots of self-help books, and even adult ed courses, to help people learn how to do those things. And you can even role play and practice with the female friends you say you have. You might also benefit from a single male friend or two who is willing to go along with you on social outings, so you may need to find some single male friends.

Now, if you are going to complain that you can't do any of the above to gain the experience you need, for whatever reason or excuse you come up with--you are too socially inhibited to do that, too unable to benefit from self-help books or courses on dating and talking to women, too fearful of rejection, etc.--then those are the issues you need to explore and tackle with a therapist because those are road-blocks you've erected within yourself that are interfering with your ability to even form new relationships.

You've got to learn how to take those road-blocks down--they are keeping you from traveling down the road of life, they are keeping you from getting to a place you say you want to be--married, with a family of your own, and they are keeping you from gaining the social experience you lack and need, as well as keeping you from enjoying an ongoing healthy sex life with women. Helping you to understand why you keep those road-blocks within yourself, and how to take them down, so you can move forward, is what a therapist can do for it--if you allow that to happen.

Similarly, you can tackle whatever social anxieties you have in other types of situations as well--like that Thanksgiving dinner you went to. This has nothing to do with shyness per se, or introversion, it's basic learning of important social skills you need in life--like how to be a gracious guest, a person people like to have at their dinner table. Why do you feel awkward in situations like that? Do you feel confused about which fork or spoon to use, or are your table manners not right? Those are things you can learn about and improve. Do you feel inhibited about talking to people older than you are or from a different background? Don't know what to ask them, or talk about? Do you compliment or comment on the food being served, or the decor of the home you are in? Do you show an interest in the other people? You don't have to be a big talker to show genuine interest, ask questions, and be a good listener. These are skills you need in any social situation, and you can learn and acquire them. Not only will it help you to feel more socially self-confident, it will help you to be more appealing to others.

If you're awkward in situations involving dancing, go take dance lessons, practice, and overcome that awkwardness. Analyze your shyness/awkwardness in all social situations where you feel uncomfortable, so you really understand it, then figure out what you need to learn or acquire so you will feel more at ease. Take cooking lessons so you learn how to entertain people--including women--at your place. Making a nice simple romantic dinner for two at home is a lot less expensive than dining out, and women really enjoy having a man cook for them. And you'll probably wind up eating better yourself if you learn how to cook well. If you worry about your physical attractiveness, what improvements can you make to help yourself feel better--lose or gain weight, do more exercise, change your hairstyle, improve your wardrobe, etc.

Right now, you have to emotionally let go of the relationship with Ms Poppins--it's over, and you need to move on with your life, just as she did with hers. Do you really want to wait another 6 years, until you're almost 40, before you start dating again? Stop with the "philosophical arguments" and the generalizations about "women" and start focusing on the road-blocks you've put up within yourself that keep you from meeting and dating other women, and start working on getting rid of them.

And, if you really want to get something out of this thread, I think you have to try being sober when you read and post here.

The title of this thread should have been "Can life have VALUE if your desires are unsatisfied?"

I have emotional problems firefly, I admit that. I can't find any enjoyment in life because of it. But I don't think I have a personality disorder.

I do have little dating experience, but those six years with my fiance and year or so with Mary Poppins gave me a lot of experience understanding how relationships progress, so if you're implying I'm completely green you're wrong. I have spent a lot of time thinking deeply about (more than anything) how I dealt with both of those relationships. I've long since identified things I wish I'd have done better. I loved both of those people very much. I don't regret loving them because no matter how (horribly) wrong things went, I could never replace how awesome the good time were. I know they did things wrong too, but there are many things I wish I would've done differently.

Also there have been other women in my life. Not a whole lot more, but enough for me to know what I'm drawn to and what I'm not.

I know relationships don't always last. I know this firefly.

Do you ever think maybe the reason I've only had two girlfriends in my life is because I won't settle for being with someone I don't really love? I've never lied to a girl to get her in bed. I don't say the words "I love you" lightly. I have only loved two women in my life. That's it. Sex isn't the same as love. I've had random encounters and other miscellaneous stuff. I mean maybe not as much as you or whoever else has but I've tried things. Even when I was a horny teenager all I ever wanted was to love one person, a person who loved me back.

I flirt with A LOT of women. Sometimes my depression hampers me but I CAN muster charm. My job enables me to meet many attractive women. I don't try anymore because I've given up, but over those six years I tried VERY hard to meet women. Because so little came of it is why I became so discouraged and my beliefs have been reinforced.

I know I need some kind of help. I think more than anything I need hope. I know you said I should give that to myself for my birthday. I agree. I just don't know where hope is.

Even if I never got married, if I had even a speck of hope that maybe, just maybe I could, I might take things more seriously and put effort into my life. All I can do is look at my experiences because they're all I've known. Maybe if I'd ever had even one good experience with a woman I'd think differently.

All the things you touched on were why I felt awkward at the Thanksgiving dinner. But mostly it was because I knew it was SO important to her that her family liked me. I was SO ridiculously in love with her. I would've done anything to let her know I cared. I psyched myself out, I was so worried I'd say something wrong.

As far as my physical attractiveness goes, the biggest thing is my eyes. They make me feel so bad about myself. I were a hat most of the time because it casts a shadow over my eyes. But it's become like a burden I carry now because I don't want people to see my eyes. Therefore I wear the hat a lot. It's like a safety blanket. My eyes make me feel less than human sometimes, but I don't have money for surgery. There's nothing I can really do about it.

I don't know how to dress. I'm horrible at being able to tell what clothes make me look OK. Ms. Poppins actually used to buy me clothes and dress me. She told me I'd "be hot" if I let her pick out some clothes for me.

Of course I don't want another six years to pass. It's already been about 8 months.

Vikkor has repeatedly said that I'm going to have to go slow, and that it's going to take YEARS for me to work on myself before I could even think about attempting to date again or to go after my goal/dream . You're saying how terrible it's going to feel if I don't date anyone else until I'm forty...

You're both right!!!

That's why I can't find anything in life. I know you're BOTH right. I DO need to work on things, myself. I need experience, I need help. I need to start giving a **** about myself. However I know that it WILL take a VERY, VERY long time. By then I'll be 40 or older. I can't deal with that. I know what I'm capable of and I know I can't deal with that.

The thought of having to wait that long before there's even a chance to start living for real, a chance to have someone in my life again makes me want death. Because I know what it feels like to truly feel alive. The absence of a hope for that makes everything that's left behind unbearable.

Here's a concept that I think may apply to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_celibacy

Sounds like people have no control over it. Good looking people and unattractive people alike.

Maybe it's my own fault that I fucked things in my life up to this point, maybe it's other people who are to blame. I actually think it's a mix of both. Regardless, I think things are just too far gone to be fixed. I don't have another six years, or the remainder of my lifetime to wait and wonder. This hurts far too much.

Michael - this simply isn't true - you've focused on one aspect that does take years, and said it is the whole :

- how long do you really think it takes to find things you are passionate about? It really only takes as long as it takes to open your heart to things that have meaning to you, and that you get excited about (and I'm not talking about relationships here)

- How long would it take to learn to dance? Not long if you are dedicated. And if you can't afford tutoring, go online, find instruction videos...go to studios that teach group dancing (usually quite cheap), etc

- How long do you think it would take to learn something like handwriting analysis? It would really only take 2-3 really good books...then you can be asking your friends for samples. Girls you meet you can ask for samples (only tell them the nice parts of course...no one wants someone they just met to be 'judgemental')

- What about joining an animal rescue shelter? That doesn't take long.

- A sports club? doesn't take long

- Hiking club? doesn't take long

--------------------

As I said - I think you're under a rather great misunderstanding about what I've been saying, on many levels :

- it takes years to fix yourself up...but that shouldn't stop you from dating - girls go out with broken guys all the time. Guys go out with broken girls all the time.

- What I've been saying is that you are placing your self-worth in the hands of women you have no control over. The only person you have control over is yourself, and the only person who should determine your worth is yourself...why do you choose to allow others approval to determine your self worth?

- You placing your worth is the hands of others (for approval) is the central issue in your state of victimhood. And because you allow them to set your worth, but that voice inside you says that's not the way it works...you have to make up ridiculous stories to yourself to justify why others setting your self worth is right, and why it's all so unfair (do you see the sheer sad contradiction in that train of thought?)

- What I've been saying is that, until you sort yourself out...you will always seek approval from others...and that's a great burden to place on them (but some people take that up anyway), and an even greater disservice you do to yourself...because it is up to you to determine your worth...what you like about you for you.

- What I've been saying is that until you place importance on your life, needs and wants...you will allow people to trample on you, because you don't view yourself as important (especially as compared to a girls needs & wants, which are not more important than yours...they can be equal, but not more important)

- What I've been saying if you are so focused on eternal approval that you don't spend time constructing the characteristics within yourself that YOU like - that make YOU happy. Those character traits you build, will ring musical bells with people who want those things in their life.

- What I'm saying is that you shouldn't be doing everything for someone else...life simply isn't worth living is that is all you are doing it for. Do things for yourself too.

- What I'm saying is that you see no worth in doing things for yourself...you think if someone else doesn't like it, then it's not worth it, because they determin your worth...this is simply not true...what you like, you like.

---------------------

There's a great deal of hope out there. There's new challenges every day. There things to learn each and every day. There's new people to meet, and lots of ways to meet them (joining clubs etc). You just have to choose to allow those avenues into your life.

The best way is to stop arguing and just go out and do. Join clubs, start hiking, start reading, start dancing...etc.

...but most of all - do it for yourself, because you think that it will enrich your life, that it will increase your interests, that it will increase your activities and achievements in life...that it will enrich your enjoyment of life, and ultimately, your own personal happiness with life.

...don't do it because you think it will give you the approval of others, but because it gives you lots of things to love in your life, and about yourself

Not in MY opinion.





David

If thinking about things helps you to do things better in the future that's good, it's wonderful, it means you are trying to learn from experience.
But, to continually re-hash the past is not good if it interferes with going forward and forming new relationships.

I don't think you should ever regret loving someone.
You don't have to be in love with someone to date them, or to have them as a girlfriend--friend is an important part of the word "girlfriend"--you simply have to like them, enjoy their company. If love is going to develop, fine, but it's not there initially, nor does it have to be there to enjoy spending time with someone.
Sex isn't the same as love. But sex can be enjoyed for it's own sake, whether or not you love the other person. And you shouldn't lie to a woman to get her into bed, plenty of women enjoy sex, and want to have sex, with men who might not love them. Sex is a shared pleasurable experience between two people--and that can happen with or without love.

Now how do you suppose I knew that? We can all feel awkward in certain situations, because we are unsure how we should act, or because we lack the social skills to handle the situation, or because we are in a situation which is unfamiliar to us. We have all been in situations like that. And, the good part, is that we can gain the experience and tools we need to handle those sorts of situations--and that's what I was telling you, and I gave you some specific suggestions on where to find help navigating social situations, like self-help books, or adult ed courses. You think you're alone in this, you're not, and that's why people write those books and give those courses--other people need them too. And, if you use tools like that, you will overcome your awkwardness and you'll feel much more self confidence about handling new social situations. No one is born knowing this stuff, we all learn it one way or the other, and we're never too old to learn it.

That sounds like it is a serious problem for you, in terms of your self esteem. What is the problem with your eyes? What type of surgery would you need to correct it?

Trust me, you are far from the only man with that problem. And many women have that problem as well. You simply have to learn how to dress to make yourself look your best, and it's not that hard, it just takes some practice.

For starters, go to the library and flip through magazines, like Esquire, and look at pictures of well dressed men--look carefully at the types of clothes, the fit of the clothes, the colors, all the details that make the guy look well dressed. Do the same thing when you look at men in movies and on TV. Many men's magazines offer tips on how to dress and look well.

Then start looking at yourself--what colors look well on you? Do you look really well in blue or green or deep red/wine colored shirts, for instance? Do they go well with your skin, eye, and hair color? Then stay away from the yellows, or oranges, because they are less likely to flatter you. Do your clothes really fit you well? A man can look really good in inexpensive clothes, as long as they fit really well and the colors and styles he has on are flattering to him. If you are unsure about these things, ask one or two of your female friends for feedback. Invite them over, and go through your wardrobe with them. Let them give you suggestions about colors, or fit, and styles that make you look your best. If they give you feedback that makes sense to you, invite them to go shopping with you, so you can try on some other things and get their opinion--you don't even have to buy anything, just try on things to see what looks best on you, it's a learning experience.
And, if you do need to fill in with some new shirts, or shoes, or pants, or ties, or whatever, there are great discount stores, and sales, and you can find great affordable clothes at bargain prices. I just bought myself a brand new with-tags-on $425 designer jacket, that fits me like it was made for me, on e-bay for $32--so I know great bargains can be found, but I wasn't born knowing how to do that--I learned it.
You don't have to spend a lot of money to look good. A cheap T-shirt in a color that flatters you, and an inexpensive pair of jeans that fits you really well, will make you look good.

No it won't take a very long time. But, the longer you put off doing anything, the more time you are wasting. Make a list of the things you need to start working on that you need to do for yourself. Pick out 2 or 3 of those things, the ones you think are the most urgent or important, and start working on those things immediately--no excuses, just get started. After a week, pick an additional item from the list, and start working on those things too. Getting organized about tackling these tasks will help to keep you from feeling overwhelmed.
You say you have good friends. Well, ask them to help you. Tell them the things you want to work on and, ask them for their advice, and let them know you need encouragement and support--that's what friends are for, and friends like to be needed. It makes people feel good to be able to help a friend out.

There are things you really can't do by yourself, and that your friends may not be able to help you with, recognizing and removing some of those road-blocks within yourself, for instance, and for those things you will need a therapist, and you know that. Start looking for a therapist.

Hope is something you have to give to yourself. And you just have to start believing that you are capable of learning and changing and growing, just like everyone else. Living is a continuous process of learning and growing--we are all works in progress. Stop denying yourself hope--this is entirely within your control. You have to change your attitude about it. Allow it to happen.

That will happen when you get yourself emotionally ready for it to happen. The sooner you start working on making changes, and getting whatever help you need, the closer you will be to making that happen.
But, until that "someone" is in your life, work on the things you know you need to do to grow and to make positive improvements, and enjoy the positives in your life--you have a job you love, you have friends, etc.
And I think you do need to stop drinking--it increases depression, it interferes with a normal restful sleep, it will zap your energy and keep you from doing the things you need to do to make your life better. It is not a helpful crutch--it is a destructive influence.

Both Vikkor and I have taken a lot of our own time to try to be helpful to you. Now it's your turn to start being helpful to yourself. It's your turn to start caring about yourself. It's time to start doing something about the way you feel and moving in a direction that will help you achieve your goals. Just start taking the first steps...

I know thinking about the past isn't productive, but it's so hard not to. It's so hard not to beat myself up.

As far as casually dating or whatever, it's hard to not look at past failed attempts at this. I've tried throughout the years firefly. I've tried really, really hard. I know you won't agree with this, but girls make snap judgments. Especially now it'd be hard to not get extremely discouraged after a few rejections right off the bat.

I really think that involuntary celibacy could have something to do with my situation. It says that there isn't much research into it before 1998, but that it affects all different kinds of people, and there isn't anything that can be done about it.

My eyes are tired. It's from not sleeping much all these years. It's because of my depression. Eyes are the first thing people notice. I hate it. I feel so ugly because of it. There's nothing I can do about it. I hate my hat, I wish I could be free of it.

I have some very good friends' it's true. However one of those, one of my three best friends is also a childhood friend of Ms. Poppins. This is causing another big problem...

First of all another thing you should know is that I'm moving in July. My sister has been BEGGING me to move to her city (which is a LONG way from here) for about three years. She knows I'm not happy here, she knows I've been having a hard time with a lot of things. She thinks she can help.

I'm not happy in this town. I grew up here. But most everyone I love has left, or died, or whatever. there are so many ghosts here, on almost every street corner. My job is something I love but there's no room to grow in that career field here. My sister lives in a much bigger city that could have potential jobs for me, but I haven't found one yet. I'd be going there without any safety blanket other than my sister.

I feel like if I don't go I'll regret it, because I know what kind of future waits for me here and I don't want it. Who knows, maybe I won't find anything there but I feel like if I don't go I'll always wonder. I think it's time. I think if I wait any longer it won't happen.

I'm worried though because I could become quite complacent living with her. She says it'd be only until I get things together, but she also said I can stay as long as I want. We lived together effortlessly as kids, she's my best friend in the whole world.

I know that she really wants me to be around for my nephew though. It's something she's said over and over. Because he's growing up without ever having known anyone from her side of the family.

I just don't want to wind up being weird uncle Mike who lives in the basement and isn't married and is kind of a big joke. I love my nephew, he's a great kid, but I need my own life. I know my sister is trying to help me but it will be hard mentally for me to not feel like a supporting character in a sitcom starring her.

Getting back to my friend who grew up with Ms. Poppins, she's getting married this summer right before I'd be moving. Ms. Poppins is one of her bridesmaids.

I don't know what to do about this situation. This friend of mine let's call her Stacy, is one out of maybe four people in the world who makes me feel good without doing anything at all, just by her presence. She's like a sister to me. in fact she was the first friend I met in college and almost kinda filled the gap my sister left when she moved away right before I started. There isn't enough room in this thread to explain just how much Stacy means to me. My life is a richer thing just because I randomly met her. I consider her to be my family.

I don't want to miss her wedding for anything in the world. So you can understand how much anguish I'm feeling over this. I honestly don't think I can handle seeing Ms. Poppins together with that guy, let alone at a wedding. I just can't handle it. Plus we haven't spoke in person since she left. I might have the urge to say some unkind words to her.

Stacy says she understands if I don't come, but I want to be there!!! I love Stacy! I wanted to make a toast. I even had it written out already. And it's funny! I worked really hard on it! I know myself though, and I can't handle seeing that. I don't know what to do.

It would also be the last time that most everyone from our social circle would be gathered together before I leave. It's going to make me so incredibly sad seeing everyone especially Ms. Poppins, knowing that she'll be doing the same thing soon without me.

I am tormented by this. Do I miss one of my best friend's weddings, or do I go and watch the woman I loved more than anyone I've ever been with, standing there with my replacement. Knowing that same scene will be playing out shortly there after with Ms. Poppins as the bride.

And because we have so many mutual friends I also have great agony thinking about all the pictures I'll be seeing in the coming months. I know you said move on too. But nothing will make seeing that kind of stuff not hurt incredibly bad.

Do you really want to stop? Then whenever you find yourself doing this, consciously switch to mentally stating to yourself the things that are good about you in that area - even if they are only small things, and repeat them several times over. If you need to write out a list of things you like about yourself, then do so, and keep it in a prominent place. Ie. You need to replace one habit (beating yourself up) with another (acknowledging the things about yourself that are good)

If you recognise problems - START doing something about them.

Umm...I hate to break this to you - but you go into dates with heavily preconceived and negative judgements about women. I daresay snap judgements from you are quite regular.


With your view of women, if they allowed you to set their worth, they would be worth less than nothing. You claim that you have them up on a pedastal so high that you can't reach them, but if I were the quote the amount of sheer derogatory stuff you've said about women...and they allowed you to set their self worth by that - their self esteem would be in a cess pit.

So do you see the silliness of allowing someone else to set your self worth? Why do you consider yourself to be other peoples playthings? Why do you allow it? Why don't you take control back of who you are and what you're worth? It's possible.

You can choose to curl up and let others approval ruin your life, or you can choose to set your own esteem, while always building character into yourself.


What an absolute load of bullshit. My brother has enforced celibacy. Anyone who is still phsyically & mentally able who claims they can't do anything about their celibacy I will call an absolute liar.


And more bullshit – you can do something about depression...you can do something about your energy systems (try regular exercise).

You say you can't do anything about it, but the current truth is that you haven't shown a willingness to actually DO. You sit their thinking about it, always putting it off...arguing endlessly about how you - an abled bodied man, phsyically capable of trying...can't do anything about it. I call your bullshit. You are capable of it.


How could you become complacent if you spend your time improving yourself, your life, you achievements, and your social skills? That’s the absolute opposite of complacency.


So you claim, but your actions aren't saying the same thing at the moment. One of the advices I give my friends is that 'when a persons words and actions don't match - always believe the actions'.

So when are you going to start actually doing something to fix your problem?

As I've said - the answer to that is the only thing that matters when it comes to solving your problems and bettering your life.

I don't. Lack of sex might be affecting you, but your celibacy is much more voluntary than involuntary. You have access to females, there are many places you could meet women, but you aren't involved in any activities, groups, organizations, etc. which might make that possible--and that's by choice. Similarly, you are afraid to date because you anticipate and fear rejection--that's also a choice you are making. As they say, "Nothing ventured, nothing gained."
Your celibacy is voluntary, it is being determined by your anxieties, and behaviors, and attitudes, and you can exercise control over all of those things.

Stop worrying about Stacy's wedding. It's several months off, and, hopefully, you'll have gotten yourself in better shape by then. You have other decisions to focus on right now, and direct your energies toward those. Decide about going to the wedding when you get closer to the date.

Moving in with your sister sounds like a good idea. It will give you a source of emotional support and advice and a chance at a fresh start in a new place which might hold much better opportunities for you.
If you don't want to wind up being "weird uncle Mike in the basement," then start--right now--on developing new interests and working on self improvements, so that by the time you move, you are already feeling better about yourself and more in control of your life and your ability to create change.

I am very confused about your eye problem. First you said you had a problem that needed surgery and affected your appearance. Now you say your eyes just look tired. What is the real problem with your eyes? I want to know why you wear that hat all the time.