Can life have meaning if your dreams are unattainable?

Well that's great.

I wish I would've been born with a vagina so that the sun could shine out of my behind, the earth could revolve around me, and I could be infallible.

Mike, u seem to be very angry.

Do u wish to appear so ?





David

So, why do you allow yourself to be used?

Either you are willing to take responsibility for your life or you aren't. Either you want to get help for your emotional and personality problems, so that they don't continue to cripple you, or you don't.

I told you, I'm not going to join you in your indulgence in self pity.

You cannot control how other people act and react, you can only control how you act and react. If you want your life to change, get yourself the help you need so that you can effect positive changes within yourself and in your relationships. Go to A.A. and get yourself a therapist.

If you want to do nothing, except remain miserable, get drunk, and nurse past resentments, that's your choice too.

Thanks for clarifying that Deej - I was thinking Michael was suggesting that men never use women.

that's me, mr. clarity

"Allowed" by whom???


Who is doing the allowing, in your understanding, Mike ?





David

poppycock - I'm around 5-7 years older than you. Personally, I will keep growing until the day I die.

Betwen the ages of 37-39 I read something like 300-400 books on subjects like : negotiation, awareness, self-deception, conversation, subconscious, handwriting analysis, foreign policy, economics, listenning, asking questions, influence, selling, motivation etc. I realised I needed to start learning again (at an older age than you are currently)...and the reason for reading so many books was that I was looking for the ability to 'self direct my own growth' (as well as personal interest in some subjects)

So now I practice new skills every single day (even if it's just in the car on the way to work). Every year that passes bye, I learn more, my fears lessen, my caring increases, my skills increase ...etc..and I become less & less worried about making a fool of myself (which is how we learn). It's a fun trip.



That mentallity would apply to even for your most cherished relationship. It's also inaccurate - you are saying 'at the end of it all, you will learn something worthwhile...so if you don't get to the end you haven't learnt anything (think about it - this IS actually what you mean)' - when you actually learn something along each step of the way. So if you don't get to the end...you've still learnt lots of new things that are, in & of themselves, useful in your life.

We learn until the day we die. The day we stop learning is the day we already start dying...because your mind starts seizing up into an automated loop, diminishing our consciousness. Thankfully though, even if it starts doing that, we can still start learning, breaking those auto looops, and increasing our awareness, and start growing again.


God no. The point of life is happiness (in my view). Drinking & sleeping all the time is much sadder, because those activities to the exclusions of much else would make anyone sad and depressed. Learning brings you alive (once you've started learning enough to enjoy it - just like jogging...at the start it's tough, but once you've done it long enough, you start to enjoy it).

If every day you achieve something new, it gives you a sense of satisfaction.
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Do you realise that the harder & more desperately you try to get a relationship, the further you push it away?

No girl likes a demanding guy, who is clingy and desperate...at least, that's how it feels in their consciousness - below that, any guy who does that shows a lack of strength in his own individuality...and men who lack strength in their own individuality can't provide & protect.

From another perspective - What you offer to a woman (in a relationship with you) is 'the world that you have created' - which includes your strenght of will, your focus, your self belief, your persistence, your views that help you achieve etc. If you don't have that, again - you can't provide & protect very well.

You are currently incredibly outwards focused, and deep down inside you is railing against it saying 'this isn't the way it's meant to be'...and that voice deep down inside you is right - we are meant to have a focus that is balanced both inwardly (towards ourselves) and outwardly (towards others)...you need to start listenning to what it is actually saying, and start equalling the balance, and making what is within you...the way it's meant to be.

So you've had LOTS of advice from people around here...but there is only one real question that's relevant - when are you going to stop being a victim by your own choice, take responsibility for your life, and actually start doing something about your life?

I think there must be something wrong with me, I read that and I fancy a beer.

I'm not an alcoholic.

Despite what you think about me, I'm in a lot of pain. I don't usually drink this much. I know it doesn't help. But right now it's keeping me numb enough not to hurt myself. Can you at least understand loss? Can I be sad because I won't ever see this person again? Am I allowed to be sad?

Even if I wanted to work on things, I'm not in a good financial situation. That limits what I can do. I have a lot of school debt. My vehicle is a money pit. I love my job, but it doesn't pay much (I work in the media/television).

I don't know how to overcome my financial hurdles. You can say money doesn't matter or whatever you're gonna say, but money limits freedom and choices.

You have given a lot to think about vikorr.

I don't know where to start to work on things ok? I don't see anything in myself. Do all human beings have redeemable qualities or are some just wasting space? Am I supposed to believe everybody that's ever lived had something worthwhile deep down? What about Hitler? What about people who just suck? Maybe I just suck. This is an argument that my therapist couldn't answer. It made her so mad.

I just want some clarification on something you said earlier though. How can you say that someone who cheats on there husband isn't a bad person? (In regards to my friend in the wheel chair).

I feel horrible for him everyday. And the saddest thing is that he hasn't divorced her and really thinks they'll work it out eventually. It's been over a year and she's still doing it!!! And he never had kids with her like your brother. What is he supposed to do from here? I just feel so much pain every time I see him. It makes me so angry.

Society

I am angry. Whether I'm skewed on my world view or not, I know right from wrong. I have a right to be angry.

If every pot finds it lid, what if even one of those lids ended up with the wrong pot??? It would throw everything out of line!!!

Men do use women. But somehow society finds it more socially acceptable for women to use men. That's why you'd never see that scenario used as the plot of a movie. There would never be a movie where a man is used by a woman, but gets a big scene where royally tells her to **** off after he regains his life/self esteem.

Yet turn on any number of shitty movies and watch how many abused women get to avenge their dignity.

There's no male centered networking in society. Yet the Oprah nation remains strong!

I disagree Michael, but I don't mind if you don't. I'll believe we have equality when a US state legislates to ram a vibrating ultrasound in the father's penis whenever a couple decide to a have an abortion.

I guess I distrust generalisations. You had a bad experience at the hands of a woman, for me the logical deduction is not 'All woman are contemptible'.

I think individuals bare responsibility for their behaviours and I have little time for those that attribute those behaviours to what does, or doesn't, hang between their legs.

"Do you realise that the harder & more desperately you try to get a relationship, the further you push it away?"

I no longer try.

Do you really believe there aren't any men out there who have created this unique and personal "world" and they still just aren't attractive to women?

There are two parts to your post :

When I was a teenager, I used to be very insulated...I blocked the world out from me. Now there was a very good reason for that (but that's a longish story, and doesn't need space here)...and by the time I was 18 I remember thinking to myself "I don't like myself". I didn't even really know what was "wrong" with me...


...but I decided I would just take step after step till I worked myself out. And that's all you can do - realise that something is 'wrong' and take step after step towards finding out what it is and growing (rather than 'fixing it' - grow).

These days, my close friends often come to me for advice...but that was because I had to struggle for myself, and doing so gave me a fair degree of understanding, and compassion for others 'flaws' - because my own were so big. The one thing I don't much tolerate though, is self deception

Do you notice that even the worlds worst criminals often have women who love them? The the very poorest have wives? That intellectually impaired people have parnters? The people with mental illnesses still find loved ones? It is my belief that there is probably no one who is inherently unlovable to 'someone'.

Your therapist probably had no talent for your particular problem. Another possibility is that she is very talented at sorting particular problems out, but not at dealing with the 'type' of issue you possess.

Psychology is, as I said, not just a science, but an art form. There are plenty of of people who can draw and paint, but fewer of artists, and of the artists there are even fewer artists that ever have their own exhibition, and few still that make it into an art gallery.
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Excuse me - that statement was not made in relationship to your friends specific situation - only that all situations have to be looked at on their own merit.

A few things that are generally true about people, and also about relationships :

- every person has multiple competing interests pulling at them when they make decisions
- peoples attraction to the opposite sex does not just switch off because they choose a parnter (think about it - it's genetically impossible)...they can choose how they react to such, but they can't switch it off.
- quite often, once people 'settle down' into a relationship, they stop trying...or they make other things more important in many different ways (ie. the energy that attracted their partner in the first place goes out the window & they still expect that the sexual attraction will remain...idiots)
- if the other person isn't looking after your happiness, the only person who is left to look after your happiness - is you.
- every person tries to do the best they can in life, and make the best decisions they can.
......
Now, back to your friend - it's unfortunate that he's in a wheelchair. On the other side, as I said, some women are cut out to stay with and love a man in a wheelchair, some women aren't.

Are you aware that we experience life in different ways? That usually one form of 'way of experiencing' life is dominant? Some experience life mostly visually, some mostly auditory, and some mostly through their feelings. For those who experience it in feelings, many experience life through touch and texture...and for women like that, touch is not just a 'want', but essential to their happiness & wellbeing. (that's a very shortened version).

Is it evil for a woman who is desperately unhappy to leave her husband?

Now let's go half way in between...what about a woman who needs touch, loves her husband & doesn't want to leave, but can never have physical intimacy with him...and due to that feels hollow & empty in a part of life that is important to her happiness & wellbeing?

Is it wrong to have the things in your life that are essential to your happiness? Is it wrong to deny a person that?

I'm not saying this is your friend's wife's situation (as I said, each situation is very individual) but rather that, perhaps they both feel a lot of conflict over what they want in life and how to achieve it?

Now coming back to 'people make the best decision they can in life' and 'everyone has flaws' - some people make plain bad decisions in areas we would never...but guess what - we make plain bad decisions in areas they would never.

In other words - life isn't black & white. It's grey, and...whatever we do has consequences.

Does your friend's wife sleep with other men because she wants to hurt your friend? Or because she's trying to have happiness in her life? If she does it because she want to hurt your friend, then she is a bad person. If not, then her being 'bad' is not so clear as that.

It's not about whether people are good or bad - but about understanding who they are, why they make the decision they do, whether they are compatible, and whether it is acceptable to you.

From another perspective - does she have good qualities? How many? Does one 'bad' quality make her an overall bad person? Can you justify using the term 'bad person' because of just one 'bad' quality - in the face of lots of other good qualities?

What about for you - are you a bad person just because you have a victim mentallity? I dare say you have a very good and well meaning heart, even while you mind is trapped in a cycle of self victimisation.

Understand people...very few are actually truly 'bad'

Well, you may be afraid to try now, but your most recent experience suggests otherwise, and suggests that it's 'ingrained' (ie mental habit).

You don't have a choice in creating a 'world' in your mind - Everyone has 'their own world' in their mind. The only choice you get is in what world you create (in your mind) . That is a creation you either take responsibility for...or it creates itself willy nilly.

If you insert in there 'I'm not attractive to women' (even if it's because of a heartbreaking relationship)...this is something you created (whether consciously, or by ommitting to take conscious responsibility for putting it there).

The good thing is, you can replace that part of your world with a new creation. The bad news is you probably created it in so many different forms that it became self reinforcing, and replacing it with a new creation requires you to create a 'belief' in so many different forms that the new belief itself becomes self reinforcing (ie. it takes effort to replace).

We have many beliefs that used to once serve us, but no longer serve a useful purpose in our lives. It is up to us to replace the old useless beliefs with new useful ones (otherwise the old ones keep serving us in useless ways).

Beliefs are habitual by the way. They can be developed in the same way as habits too.

I understand loss quite well.

What's more difficult to understand is why you feel so allegedly sad about the loss of a person you feel abused, deceived, and used you.

What's more difficult to understand is why your feelings of "sadness" seem more like anger at all the rotten things you felt she did to you.

What's difficult to understand is why you allow yourself to be abused or used in a relationship, but don't take any responsibility for your own participation in such an arrangement.

What's difficult to understand is why you don't emotionally let go of this relationship--she left you 7 and a half months ago--what benefit are you getting by keeping your anger about being rejected alive? You like picking at a wound?

Then stop drinking.

That's a lousy excuse. The drinking is making you feel worse. Go to A.A.

So you don't want to work on straightening yourself out and improving your life? You just want to get drunk and wallow in self pity and resentment and come up with excuse after excuse for not taking responsibility for your own life?

Get a second job.

You don't need a woman in your life to mistreat you. You do a great job of mistreating yourself. If you don't care for, or about, yourself, why should anyone else treat you well? If you don't value yourself enough to go get some help to improve your life and your coping skills, what do you want anyone here to do for you--simply commiserate with you that you're a poor helpless victim?

Maybe you do.

So, turn yourself into a better person.

Go get the help you need for yourself...unless you like watching life pass you by.

Are you getting to the stage where you are will be mimicking his previous therapist?