Can life have meaning if your dreams are unattainable?

Please see the humor in that, I spat my glass of water out Michael



Ah man, seriously ? About butts and boobs and then you asked for her number? Think about that... Sure, it was all funny but by discussing these women parts Then asking for a phone number, guess what she's thinking you want? I know if that was me know, I would have done exactly what she did.....

Wish you mentioned that before....

"And you're better and sharper and more honest and sincere and caring and less manipulative and more well-meaning and etc. etc. than everyone else in the whole world...

I mean, what lying, manipulative, cowardly, woman who doesn't even carry a pen with her could possibly deserve a man like you - even if she DOES read comic books and laughs at butt crack and boob jokes?"

You got me, I'm such a douchebag! One more man told what's what by a woman!

Bravo...

"My theory, and I worn you right now that you are not going to like my theory, is that women practice so much lying and deceit because they like to play. In part this is to make it clear to us men that they are not idiots and are not controlled by us, but also because girls just want to have fun. If I am correct then you have big problems....you who claims to detest game playing, and look upon it as an endeavor which is beneath you. "

Exactly, women=evil.

"There is a big double standard, as the culture is now anti male and heavily anti masculinity. THis is a subject that I have brought up in multiple threads, and one which is consistently dismissed as misogynistic, as one would expect it to be in an anti-male culture."

Our culture is indeed heavily anti-male. Males are scapegoats for everything wrong with the world. But say something against women and it's a hate crime!

People love to throw the word 'misogyny' around but don't even know there's a mirroring term regarding hatred of men. That's because women are some sort of 'protected species' or something...

I'm just presenting yourself to you as you've presented yourself to me and comparing that to how you have presented the 'average' or 'typical' woman to everyone who's reading these pages.

Really - how could the two EVER get along?

I mean you are honest, straight with your feelings, really, really funny and sharp and witty and caring and all that and all women are just fundamentally morally flawed (in your considered opinion).

So - how's that ever going to work?

And I never called you a douche bag. I said you seem tightly wound and dismissive of the positive traits of women while seeming to need to focus on or highlight the negatives you've found in the women you've chosen to interact with, while you focus on and highlight your own positive traits.
That's all I've said about you.
That's it.

And yeah - you're just 'one' man.
In general - I like men - very much.
But the tightly wound ones -not so much.
They make big deals out of nothing. It's tedious and predictable.
Luckily, most of the men I've met and know are of the more relaxed variety.
That's why I have nothing bad to say or traits to call up to stereotype and generalize males as a gender.
I probably prefer the male of our species - overall- if I had to say.
Cheers to my mom and sisters and daughter - but yeah - that's the truth.

"Ah man, seriously ? About butts and boobs and then you asked for her number? Think about that... Sure, it was all funny but by discussing these women parts Then asking for a phone number, guess what she's thinking you want? I know if that was me know, I would have done exactly what she did.....

Wish you mentioned that before.... "

If she had a problem with that kind of subject material, she wouldn't have been reading that book...

Never once have I purported that I have no flaws.

And in the past two days I've been posting about how broken hearted I am because the most positive person in my life who is a WOMAN, and who is someone I respect and admire greatly dosen't want me at her wedding because of conflicting issues.

Now how could I think "all women are just fundamentally morally flawed (in your considered opinion)." If I love and respect this person so much, and consider her to be such a close friend that I've actually been choking up with tears in my eyes at work thinking of the possibility that our friendship could be on the rocks for the first time ever?

I'm generalizing???

You're only focusing on the negative things I say about women and ignoring the positive.

More of that scapegoating of men that I mentioned to hawkeye because I have the stones to point out 'evils' of women...

I dont think that she has a problem with comic book butts and boobs, I think she has a problem giving her number to some 33 year old guy who is so clueless as to think that talking about comic book butts and boobs is a good way to get it. Talking to women as if you are 13 years old might well get you some laughs, but will it get you into their pants, or even a date?

I didn't say you said you have no flaws.
I said you seem to focus on the positives in your own character while focusing on the negatives of females (as a gender).

You seem to find this one woman you respect and admire as an exception as opposed to the rule as far as women go.

I can't be bothered to go back and quote all the negative generalizations you've attributed to 'women' - but yeah - that has been the gist or focus of your commentary on this thread - that 'women are fundamentally lying and manipulative.
That's a negative generalization or stereotype.

There are boobs and butts aplenty in that book! The writer himself has even talked about it.

I see a girl reading something like that, what am I supposed to talk to her about? Masterpiece theater and ****??? World economics??? Global peace???

You can say whatever you want, but if you look back here you'll see yourself drawing unwarranted conclusions about me and making plenty of generalizations yourself about my psyche.

"You seem to find this one woman you respect and admire as an exception as opposed to the rule as far as women go."

There are no hard and set rules. I just observe and collect information, as do all human beings.

But yeah Stacy is the sweetest person I've ever met in my life. She gives me hope for humanity in general, not just women.

Michael.. She like the Comic book, maybe she has a sense of humor, in-fact she does, as she laughed with you.. But, when a man approaches a woman asks her for a date, based on the past conversation of butts and boobs? Come on even at 33, you know that it's highly likely she went WTF? He just wants me for sex...

Had you have said, I love your sense of humor.. Pitty I can't ask you out or else you would think I had sex on my mind based on your comic book and our laughter... Oh well, take the gamble I'm real? She may have said, oh, ok..

Don't get mad, think about it.

Sorry, I've tried. I don't know what I'm doing wrong but I can't get that quote thing to work. Tried it just like you said. I don't see a quote button anywhere...

"Had you have said, I love your sense of humor.. Pitty I can't ask you out or else you would think I had sex on my mind based on your comic book and our laughter... Oh well, take the gamble I'm real? She may have said, oh, ok.."

Maybe you're right, but if she liked that book as much as I do, I don't really think she thought I was trying to get in her pants. Not anymore than any man who asks for a girls number anyway...

"...but I don't understand why you think that her taking off on you is a Damn lot of replies...and football is on.

If you have a friend you trust - go out to a bar, or place where you can meet (and approach women), and have him watch & critique. It's often most difficult to see our 'mistakes' when we are personally involved.

...of course, sometimes, the women we approach just don't like us (which is okay - we are all allowed to choose who we like), or have problems, or have had a bad day, or are just plain nasty / bad / shallow etc

Or if you want - record the interaction with a digital voice recorder, look over it afterwards...look at it as an experiment for yourself. If you have qualms about voice recordings - just delete it after you've learnt what you can.

You are 33 years old and you don't know what to talk to a "girl" about? Butt jokes are how you try to interest a woman in getting to know you better?
You think and act like a 13 year old.

If you had seen a man reading that same comic, and you wanted to chat with him about it, because you shared a similar interest, would you have tried to amuse him with jokes about boobs and butt cracks too? Or is that sort of infantile nonsense something you reserve for picking up women?

Judging by your comments throughout this thread, you are neither clever nor humorous, and your idea of snappy patter is unlikely to appeal to any female who has gotten beyond junior high school--and even most of those still in junior high would probably feel you are a jerk.

You have an appalling lack of social skills for a 33 year old. And it's not just with women you are trying to meet, it's across the board. You just don't know how to behave appropriately when meeting people, whether it's at a Thanksgiving dinner or with people in any other sort of social situation. Either you're withdrawn and paralyzed by self consciousness and feelings of inadequacy, or you're slightly drunk and trying to put on a comic performance of some sort. Neither of those types of behaviors on your part will help you get to know the people you are with, nor will they really allow the other people to get to know you, or even cause them to want to get to know you better.

It's not just that you're not "smooth", or that you're "shy", you are downright clueless about how to act like an adult when meeting someone. You exhibit no real interest in, or curiosity about, the other person. And you reveal little in the way of personal attributes or behavior that would make another person feel attracted to you. And, in these situations, I suspect you can't read other people's social cues, and the non-verbal feedback they are giving you, well at all. That you can't understand these things about yourself, or understand why you fail to elicit more positive reactions from people, is a large part of your problem.

Your difficulties have nothing to do with "women", or how they act, and your difficulties are not shared by most men. Most 33 year old men know how to behave and function effectively in social interactions--they aren't acting like they are in total darkness groping for a flashlight, the way you do--they focus on getting to know the other person, on putting the other person at ease, on making the other person feel interesting and important. Those things aren't game-playing, they aren't indications of phoniness, they're social skills that indicate an awareness of the other person, and how that person might be feeling. And they are social skills that most people, both men and women, acquire in order to be able to function effectively. You've not only missed the boat on acquiring those skills, and seem clueless about how to obtain them, you throw childish tantrums because everyone else is aboard that boat and you don't even know where to buy a ticket, or you don't have enough money to buy a ticket, or you think only females can get tickets, and on and on. You're socially inept, plain and simple.

Why would you ever expect any woman who doesn't know you, or has only chatted with you for a few minutes, and has no other knowledge of you, to give you her phone number? Are you that out of touch with reality? Don't you think women have realistic concerns about handing out their phone numbers to total strangers? Why are you even asking for her phone number instead of simply giving her your phone number and saying, "I'd really like to spend more time with you, give me a call and maybe we can get together"?

You don't want honest responses. You feel insulted by them. You've disregarded people's reactions to you throughout this thread--and the feedback you've gotten, from both men and women, regarding both your thinking and manner of expressing yourself, has generally been rather negative. Not once have you stopped to say, "Am I really like that? Is that how I come across?." Rather than becoming aware of something about yourself that you should try to improve or change, you get defensive and spout more bullshit.

Women may try to avoid hurting your feelings, or a direct confrontation, so they tell you white lies--that's not really being either a liar or manipulative. So, that woman in the coffee shop told you she was going to her car to get a pen--she wanted to get away from you and you were too dumb to realize that. Would you have really been happier if she told you she thought you were a creep and she just wanted to leave? Would you really have been happier if Mary told you she was moving out because she couldn't take being around you any more? Stacy doesn't even want you at her wedding. Your therapist even got tired of trying to cut through your defensive bullshit, to get through to you, and she gave up. Not only do you not appeal to strangers, people who've been your friends for a long time, like Mary and Stacy, want to get away from you and they cut off contact because they are tired of having to deal with your emotional problems.

You want women to level with you? To be up front with you? Okay, I'll level with you, MichaelJ...

You are an extremely immature person with very poor social skills, and very poor relationship skills, for an adult.

You have significant emotional and personality problems with poor coping mechanisms.

Your mistrust of others, as well as your externalization of blame, and constant sense of being victimized, borders on the paranoid.

You are extremely self-involved and self-absorbed with little real interest in other people or their needs.

You seem to lack any sort of charm or personal appeal, you have a real nasty streak, and you generally harbor considerable resentment and anger.

Your thinking is often shallow, inflexible, and illogical, and the conclusions you draw are often irrational and distorted.

You whine incessantly, passively wallow in self pity, lack self esteem and self confidence, and don't have enough self respect to properly take care of yourself or try to improve yourself.

Your insight is nil.

You come across as somewhat jerky, creepy, and quite odd.

And you are a drunk.

Do you want more honesty?

You tell me why anyone would be interested in having a relationship with you?

I'll side with the others on this - I don't know any sober girl that would provide a phone number to a stranger straight after a boob/butt joke...even if she was reading a book on adult jokes (and most likely not even if she was drunk, unless you were an adonis and she just plain didn't hear you)

Did you know that the average 14 year old boy is stronger than the average adult woman?

1) Don't be sorry, I was only trying to help... Surely you have B i u and then quote next to it? After you hit reply ? Doesn't matter sweet.

As a woman.. I can tell you.. She really more than likely was thinking you wanted to get into her pants.. Or, more importantly fear set in, she doesn't know you, you make jokes about her comic book, it turns out it's about boobs and butts and then you ask for her number. Geez, seriously, I wouldn't take that risk... You have to remember women have intuition which is right sometimes and wrong other times but we are born with it...to protect, our child... In this case, her inner-child.. Herself... Alarm bells went off, right or wrong... It's the way you did it, would have been fine in a normal situation, but you have to be softer and make a woman feel "comfortable" if you are in an awkward situation and you were, you were conversing about boobs and butts...

Now would be a fine time to inform MJ that here at A2K we have a tradition of refusing to tell people what they want to hear if we believe the truth to be other. If a person wants to be treated with kid gloves they best not wander in here. It is however a great place to learn, which hopefully makes us better.

Conversing about "boobs and butts" as a way of trying to interest, or know, a woman is just idiotic.
Expecting her to then give you her phone number, because she has been so impressed by you, is equally idiotic.

But, even if the conversation had been more mature and adult, I'm not sure most women would hand over their phone number after talking to a stranger in a coffee shop for 10 minutes. What did she really know about him? It has nothing to do with "wanting to get in her pants"--the guy could be a nut.

A 33 year old man should have considerably more smarts about how to approach a strange woman, how to talk to her, and how to try to set up another meeting, if she appears genuinely interested in him. But that's really not the best way to try to meet someone. Most women would probably not be receptive to a total stranger in a coffee shop who approached them like that. It works in the movies, but that's not real life.

May I ask what the point of saying this is?

I think it's something that MichaelJ needs to be aware of. He appears totally clueless about why his own behavior, and lack of social skills, result in the type of reaction he gets from women.

He claims he wants women to be honest with him. That's what I'm doing.