@Joe Nation,
It rung odd and I should have caught it.
@Joe Nation,
Quote:Oh, I looked too. I didn't think it was right, but I didn't think it was right not to look.
Joe(It made him so happy and proud.)Nation
That made me laugh. It was so kind of you to put yourself out there for your friend.
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote: A very, very small fraction of the population have the kinds of physiques which would make them candidates for nude photos.
I couldn't disagree more.
I think everyone who feels comfortable with it should have naked photos/paintings/portraits/etchings/sketches of themselves. It's no big deal.
I simply don't understand why people have such hang-ups about their own, and other people's bodies.
I was originally going to say that I thought it was a very old-fashioned point of view, but I realize that it's primarily a mid-century view.
@Sturgis,
Sturgis wrote: At any rate, it's my body, damn well better be comfortable with it. Others had better be good with theirs as well. My memorial service, once I am dead will be clothing optional, this has already been discussed with a good friend of mine.
At any rate, who are we to decide if a person has a body which is going to be attractive enough for others? If a person feels comfortable and wants to display, that's their business not mine.
absodanglutely
I agree with the rest of the post as well - there has to be acceptance of the consequences if the photos/whatever make it out in the greater world. Same as there always had to be.
@mismi,
I really don't understand* the whole power/desire for admiration take people have on this.
Some people are just cool with their bodies. I would love to have the total comfort and freedom some people have about their bodies. I'm definitely more comfortable with my body now than I was several decades ago when it was a more traditional thing of beauty and joy, but I'm sure not ready to be a life model.
* ok, I kinda get it when I think of a certain type of teen - but luckily, fewer of them seem to exist in my real world than did when I was younger
@ehBeth,
Beth wrote:
Quote:I think everyone who feels comfortable with it should have naked photos/paintings/portraits/etchings/sketches of themselves. It's no big deal.
I simply don't understand why people have such hang-ups about their own, and other people's bodies.
I was originally going to say that I thought it was a very old-fashioned point of view, but I realize that it's primarily a mid-century view.
Well...it's a personality thing too don't you think? Some people are just naturally more modest. I have two boys that walk around naked without a thought. The other one protests if I see him in his drawers. I didn't teach any of them that - and my husband certainly didn't. He is extremely comfortable in his birthday suit. Me on the other hand - I won't get up and walk down the beach without a cover-up of some sort - and that has been since before children, when I was fat in all the right places.
Or - maybe it was taught upon reflection. I think if I had girls, I would teach them not to walk around naked in front of their brothers.
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:I simply don't understand why people have such hang-ups about their own, and other people's bodies.
I think it's an unintended consequence of the taboo that Victorian morality has erected around naked bodies. (Pun unintended, but I let it stand when I noticed it.) I'm sure the hangups would go away soon once the taboo did. Case in point: at my gym back in Munich, the sauna, sanarium, and steam-bath were gender-integrated, and the unwritten dress code was simply, no dress. I can attest that people did look at pretty boobs and arses. But they didn't look at them any differently than people outside the gym would look at pretty faces.
Conversely, back in imperial China, smut peddlers used to sell pictures of women's mutilated feet to men who would masturbate to them. (Showing women's feet to anyone but the women's own husbands was taboo in imperial China.) Then came the revolution of 1911, which liberated Chinese women (within limits). Looking at their feet ceased to be a big deal, and the 'porn' industry around it perished soon thereafter. I'm confident the same would happen to images of breasts and genitals, if only the taboo against them died its long-overdue death already.
@mismi,
mismi wrote:I didn't teach any of them that - and my husband certainly didn't.
<snip>
Or - maybe it was taught upon reflection. I think if I had girls, I would teach them not to walk around naked in front of their brothers.
these two pieces in conjunction make me cringe a bit
I wish that everyone would teach all of their kids that everybody's body is a wonderful thing in its own way. And that there are different rules for girls, no just no.
Everyone will have their own comfort level about their own body and how much of it they want seen by anyone, but I'd like the baseline to be that whatever is cool for you is fine - and nobody else's business/problem.
Someone doesn't want to show/someone doesn't want to to look - that's fine (for now - I'd like more acceptance in future generations).
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote: Case in point: back in Munich, the sauna, sanarium, and steam-bath were gender-integrated, and the unwritten dress code was simply, no dress. I can attest that people looked at pretty boobs and arses, but that they didn't look at them any differently than people outside the gym would look at pretty faces.
That's my experience with community saunas in most of Ontario outside of the big cities. No clothes/no staring/no avoidance/no big deal.
@ehBeth,
Let the social workers who report this know, eh?
@ehBeth,
Hang ups is such a mid century word.
@ehBeth,
Quote:
these two pieces in conjunction make me cringe a bit
I wish that everyone would teach all of their kids that everybody's body is a wonderful thing in its own way. And that there are different rules for girls, no just no.
Everyone will have their own comfort level about their own body and how much of it they want seen by anyone, but I'd like the baseline to be that whatever is cool for you is fine - and nobody else's business/problem.
Someone doesn't want to show/someone doesn't want to to look - that's fine (for now - I'd like more acceptance in future generations).
I would never teach them their body is something to be ashamed of. I think there is definitely a difference between modesty and prudishness. I have no problem with a naked body. But to me it is a personal thing. The boys and I talk about my boobs and how they used to nurse and their bodies and how they are changing. They are not ashamed. Or even embarrassed about talking about them.
I think it is a sign of respect (for yourself and your significant other) to cover yourself in front of the opposite sex when they are not your significant other. If that is old fashioned then, I guess it just is what it is. But I don't think it's wrong. I feel I am being true to my own standards.
[edit] I don't believe that it's wrong for others - it's a personal choice. My boys may choose to be less modest like their dad . That is fine. I think I am still weighing in on it all though. I absolutely see what you are saying - and I am reflecting upon it.
@ehBeth,
Community saunas, I figure I'd like them. I had a year or two when I designed saunas, for a firm, though not huge ones, I don't know about those, more family sized.
I think I would probably like community baths but I don't know - I might not be comfortable for the first minutes, sort of like walking to the diving board for the first time for those of us not raised diving while very young. I think it would depend on what place and the people. I do not just promise you to be fine with some club.
I don't take you as superior as you do for having this comfort, which is conveyed in your posts which ring as a kind of disapproval of those who don't share the comfort. I sort of share your comfort but smell the dismissal if I don't choose to.
@mismi,
mismi wrote:
Quote:Oh, I looked too. I didn't think it was right, but I didn't think it was right not to look.
Joe(It made him so happy and proud.)Nation
That made me laugh. It was so kind of you to put yourself out there for your friend.
Yeah, the lengths we go to for friendship.
eh beth, it's not about being comfortable with your body.
I'm comfy with mine. It might be TMI, but I prefer to walk around my house sans clothes whenever I can. Or, I'll walk around in what might be considered strange combinations of dress/undress because it feels comfortable. I'm not giving a thought as to if I appear attractive or not at those times. It's not important.
But when someone sends someone else, or posts a picture of themselves naked, it's not about saying "Look, see I'm just being comfortable. Nothing to see here." (Of course that would be different if you're part of a nudist community) They are doing it for titillation. That's fine too, unless you mind running the risk you're going to titillate a lot more people than you bargained for. In a word, it's just plain stupid.
People are doing it not as if "here's 2 pictures of me. In the first one I'm wearing mukluks, sweatpants and a T-shirt. In the other one, I'm not."
Like it or not, we're not a society, and neither is Germany for that matter, where people just walk around naked in the street. If it wasn't against the law, I don't think the vast majority of people would do it anyway.
BTW, off subject a bit, but I really don't like that word "nude". Now THAT sound prudish and prissy.
Like being "in the nude" in any different/nicer/more polite than being naked.
As far as power, I can see where you don't get it eh beth. It's apparant you've been empowered in many ways throughout your life, by wonderful parents.
For many people, and I suppose I am speaking of girls/women, the only source of power they get to feel is the power of being able to sexually arouse someone.
Sad yeah, but true.
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:Like it or not, we're not a society, and neither is Germany for that matter, where people just walk around naked in the street. If it wasn't against the law, I don't think the vast majority of people would do it anyway.
Especially if it wasn't against the law. It would remove the whole allure of shockingness.
@chai2,
Quote:BTW, off subject a bit, but I really don't like that word "nude". Now THAT sound prudish and prissy.
Like being "in the nude" in any different/nicer/more polite than being naked.
Very odd. I feel the same way. I would much rather be naked than nude. What is up with that?
@mismi,
Don't know why, but that reminds me of that kids joke...
What did the mayonaise say when someone opened the fridge?
Closed the door, I'm dressing!
Ok, I'm truly sorry about that.
Carry on.
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:I don't take you as superior as you do for having this comfort, which is conveyed in your posts which ring as a kind of disapproval of those who don't share the comfort. I sort of share your comfort but smell the dismissal if I don't choose to.
try it again
Quote:Everyone will have their own comfort level about their own body and how much of it they want seen by anyone, but I'd like the baseline to be that whatever is cool for you is fine - and nobody else's business/problem.
What I'd like is for people to accept other people's comfort level about their own bodies and not to judge them for it. Not to think that they are seeking power, not to think that they are attempting to arouse others, not to make assumptions about what is guiding them.
I'm sure not perfect about it - a definite work in progress. I've been learning a lot in the area of body image in the last month/s through the Belly Be Well class I've been taking. Our instructor challenges us on judgment calls regularly.
Reeling back the inner Puritan is a challenge every day.
